During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
- Why do a cleanup?: This trope definitely exists and has a well documented history of use. That being said, it frequently gets misused to a character who meets one of the components, namely that they are smart, charming while not necessarily even being a villain, or create good plans. While these are components, there is also a certain personality required, not to mention that all of the above are required to be present for a character to be a true Magnificent Bastard. As the trope attracts interest, it unfortunately brings in a lot of misuse and I thought the best way to rectify this would be a Perpetual Cleanup Thread, as is being done and has seen success with Complete Monster.
- What makes a Magnificent Bastard: Below is a list of the individual components to make this character. Note that they must all be present, not just some, which has lead to frequent misuse:
- Must be intelligent: Goes without saying, to be a Magnificent Bastard, the character has to be smart in the first place and use their brain to work towards whatever their end goal may be;
- Must be a Bastard: While going overboard in how vile the character is can be detrimental, a key aspect is the Bastard part of the trope, whether the character is an out-and-out antagonist in the work, some manner of Villain Protagonist, or something in between, they at least have some unscrupulous qualities to qualify for this trope;
- Must not be too detestable: Again, there is a ceiling on how bad the character can be before they just become too nefarious, blocking out the Magnificent part of the trope. A genocidal racist or child-raping Sadist aren't going to make the cut;
- Think on their feet: In addition to being a Chessmaster, a Magnificent Bastard, if the character deals with situations in which their initial plan is ruined, has to be able to pull a Xanatos Speed Chess and at least come up with a competent strategy to make up for lost time, otherwise they fail for being unable to think in tough spots;
- Have charm: Even if they don't necessarily make every character they meet fall in love with them and can even be detested by others, the audience has to find an amicable social relation to the character, or they are failing to make the impact required for this trope.
- What to do if a character is listed on a page but has not been approved?: They need to be removed, all candidates need to come through the cleanup thread first. The character could well count but they need to be analyzed properly and voted on first.
- Do we list Playing With this trope?: No; as a YMMV trope, this cannot be Played With, so we only want examples that are Played Straight.
- What do I do if I want a character to be listed as a Magnificent Bastard?: The greatest success Complete Monster saw for its cleanup effort was from the invention of the effort post format, so, borrowing from that, a troper wishing to propose a Magnificent Bastard will create such a post in the following format:
- Begin by describing The work, this will help establish the setting the character is in and for the reader to understand what kind of a scenario they are in;
- Summarize The character's actions, this will provide a listing for readers to understand what they do and how it applies to this trope because charm and lack of smugness are so crucial, this is a good time to be incorporating exactly the flavor of how they operate to explain this;
- List circumstances in which the character must Think on their feet, these are times where a wrench might be thrown in their initial plan and they have to adapt on the spot or even come up with a new scheme all together, this is also a good time to explain how the villain reacts to defeat when they have to face it, a true Magnificent Bastard won't break down into tears at the thought of death, they should have known such a possibility could occur and be able to handle it with more dignity;
- The competition, similar to the Heinous Standard dealt with for a Complete Monster, this section is to deal with how successful the character is in carrying out their plans compared to other characters. While, as a villain, they probably are going to lose in the end, it is good to explain how other characters handle the same situation. There is no exceptionalism case to be made for this trope but explaining the variety helps the reader have a better understanding of the proposal.
- How do you know when the character's arc is done so they can be proposed? When their tenure as a villain or antagonist finishes. This could happen in a single Story Arc in an entire work, a single work of a franchise, or the whole series in general. We'll show lenience to Long-Runners with constantly recurring candidates or series with outstanding continuities (ex. comic books), and it's entirely possible to count in a work or two but not in general for a reason like Depending on the Writer.
- What about candidates evil because of external sources? Those Made of Evil can qualify if they show enough individuality and tactical acumen — in other words, they have the personality to fulfill the magnificence requirement. Conversely, those brainwashed, especially if they're a better person without it, may fail the individuality aspect and cannot count.
- What if they are under orders from a higher-up? Depends. If the boss created the plans down to the letter and the candidate is just following them, sounds like we should discuss the boss instead. However, if the candidate takes creative liberties with the orders, adds their own charm and flair to them, fills in holes in the orders, and/or actively deals with obstacles their boss did not talk about, the candidate shows enough individual thinking to qualify.
- What about Character Development? An MB is something a character can develop into... a nice person who plots well might become more morally gray as the work goes on and hits the "Bastard" criteria, thus making them viable. Likewise, a Smug Snake might shed their ego, become more understanding of the threat others pose and gain the personality or "Magnificent" criteria, likewise making them viable. Conversely, a character who looks like this trope might suffer from a Sanity Slippage or just get outed as not being as smart as they thought they were and become incompatible with MB.
- Can an MB be a good guy? Not in the conventional sense... it is required they have at least some dubious traits lest they fail the "Bastard" criteria. That being said, a character who pulls a Heel–Face Turn or eventually stops taking villainous actions is still fair game: as there was a point in time where they were both "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and they've merely adapted as time goes on. Now... if such a character begins showing other issues (i.e.: becomes prone to freak outs or starts getting outwitted) then they're compromising their Magnificence and will probably be deemed a cut. What's important is stylishly operating while at least for some time being willing to take at best underhanded methods to see a job done. A Heel–Face Turn in itself isn't a disqualifier but they do have to have been "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and afterwards can't start slipping on the former front.
- What about characters whose stories can take different routes?: When proposing a character in a form of media that has them in multiple story routes. Said character must be consistent with their characteristics in all routes. (ex.: Can't have an example who shows promise on one route yet fails in another.) The only exception is if a later installment of the series confirms the character's actions which made them worth proposing are the canon route.
- Is there a timeframe rule like with Complete Monster?: Yes, please wait two weeks until after the work has concluded before proposing a character (again, usually using the North American air date). As is the case with CM, we want to give a reasonable time frame so that everyone interested in seeing the work has done so and can participate in the discussion without having anything spoiled.
- What about groups like with Complete Monster?: This is a point of divergence between the two tropes. While CM does not allow for a single entry encompassing more than three characters lest their heinousness for crimes becomes too watered down, with MB as long as they are treated as one "unit" it is acceptable to lump all characters provided they share acts of charm and intelligence.
- Can I propose my own work's character as a Magnificent Bastard?: No, this is a YMMV subject and the creator of a content is way too biased to be able to evaluate the criteria we're looking for without a second opinion taking over. That being said, you are more than welcome to encourage someone to consume your creation and if they feel a character counts, are more than welcome to suggest them.
- My example/edit has been approved, but the example subpage is locked! How do I get it added?: The moderators do not add examples to locked example subpages in the MagnificentBastard/ namespace directly. Rather, you need to do the edit to a sandbox page that follows the format Sandbox.MagnificentBastard<Name of the example subpage> (e.g for MagnificentBastard.Fullmetal Alchemist it's Sandbox.Magnificent Bastard Fullmetal Alchemist) and on a Friday, ask in the locked pages edit requests thread for the content to be swapped in.
Thread rules
When voting a troper must specify the effort post they're voting on and cannot merely vote on "Everything I missed" as in the past it has indicated the poster didn't read the effort post and is guessing instead of analyzing.
Resolved items
In general, a character listed on this trope is considered "settled". This means they should not be challenged unless information used to list them was incorrect or information was missed in the initial discussion.
However, when re-litigating a candidate, the same rules apply for when they were originally proposed. If they do not have five or more upvotes than downvotes for approval upon a re-litigation, including votes from the initial discussion if they do not change, then they are a cut.
This especially applies to the characters listed below, who have been discussed excessively and repeated attempts to get them listed/cut may result in punitive action for bogging down the thread.
Definitely an MB
- Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers: Any sadism Darkrai displays is limited in effect thanks to the game's nature and any cowardice which can be inferred about him is Alternative Character Interpretation about his tactical retreats.
- Avatar: The Last Airbender: Azula's Villainous Breakdown is undone in the sequel comic Smoke & Shadow where she regains her composure and ends up stable and in control enough to count.
Definitely not an MB
- South Park: The show's frequent use of vulgar comedy and mean-spirited humor leaves any potential candidates devoid of the dignity or charm to qualify.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:15:22 AM
Yes to Ali. No to Kira.
- ''Diablo: Baal, Lord of Destruction, is the middle brother of the Prime Evils and far more clever than he is typically given credit for. More straightforward than his wantonly sadistic brothers, Baal was the first of his siblings to suspect his niece Lilith's theft of the Worldstone. After following the Dark Exile, Baal emerges thanks to manipulating the wandering patsy to Diablo Marius into freeing him, later appearing to him as the angel Tyrael so that Marius will surrender his Soulstone to him before he executes Marius as a "reward" and proceeding to go on to corrupt the Worldstone to seize control of the world.
- Vampire The Masquerade Winters Teeth:
- Cecily Bain, Sheriff of the Twin Cities in all but name is the enforcer to Prince Samantha Merrain. A ruthless, intelligent Brujah and former Anarch, Cecily takes the fledgling Caitiff Ali under her wing, passing her off as Cecily's own Childe. Upon being framed for Prince Samantha's murder, Cecily turns the tables to win herself a place back at the table, evading a full Blood Hunt in the process, while even securing the life of her enemy Erin while still winning over her. Later betrayed by Ali, Cecily manages to arrange for the fall of Ali's plans, having Ali cornered and diablerizing her protege to ascend to the rank of Prince.
- Calder Wendt, Tremere Primogen,is the murderer of Prince Samantha, which he considers a form of euthanasia as he knwos the coming horrors will break her. Spreading a plot to divide Minneapolis and Saint Paul while framing Cecily to take over and become Prince, Calder attempts to take Ali under his wing during a Cull of mortals. When the vampire in charge reveals a ten year old boy as well, Calder pardons the boy using his authority as Primogen but allows Ali to mercy-kill the nurse of Cecily's human sister. Helping in the downfall of Ali's plots, Calder ends as the Sheriff under Prince Cecily, still weaving his plans and sparing his arch-rival Erin Runningbear once she gives him the information he needs.
- Alejandra "Ali" De Luna is the daughter of famed Hunter "The Mortician." Having been sired by an unknown vampire thanks to her father feeding her to it, Ali allows Cecily to take her in while she learns all she an from the older vampire. Finally realizing what she wants most is power, Ali fakes the death of a young hunter and gives information to the Mortician's Army to bring them all down upon the Camarilla's heads. Ali proceeds to position Cecily to intervene and betrays the Hunters to massacre them so she and Cecily can be heroes. When her plans fail, Ali allows Cecily to diablerize her, all to make Cecily a feared Prince while Ali lives on within her.
Taking another (more detailed this time) stab at Pierre Despereaux, after watching the 4 episodes he appeared in
The Work
Psych is a TV Show that ran for 8 Seasons from 2006 to 2014. It follows a hyper-observant man named Shawn Spencer who pretends to be psychic to solve cases. One of his most regular rivals (later frenemy) is Pierre DespereauxThe Characters Actions
- Extradition: British Columbia
- Introduced as an elusive art thief who leaves enough evidence of his crimes to be identified, but never enough to be formally accused
- In his third encounter with Shawn and Gus, he drops hints as to what he plans to steal over the next couple of days (a Manet painting and a crown), then slips away when the duo are momentarily distracted.
- Despereaux's thefts are successful despite the Canadian police's best efforts to guard the Manet, and the Psych duo staking out the museum where the crown is kept.
- It turns out that the items were never stolen - his M.O was to collude with cash strapped owners of artifacts, who would give him the items of value. the owners would report them as stolen, so that they would get insurance money and Pierre could earn notoriety. It was mutually beneficial.
- When Shawn confronts him about this, he tells Shawn that the genius in his plan was in its simplicity
- As for his general demeanor, he is always polite (if somewhat smug) and sees Shawn as a worthy opponent. Shawn himself is impressed and baffled by his skills till he learns his secret.
- Extradition 2: The Actual Extradition
- He invites Shawn and Gus to pay him a visit in prison, and tells them that the events of his debut episode inspired him to become a legitimate art thief.
- He sneaks into Shawn and Gus' car, steals it, commits a theft, then returns to prison with no one any wiser
- When he learns that someone someone was killed in the house that he robbed, his reaction is subdued and he calmly concludes that he was set up.
- He breaks out of prison again to investigate the scene of the crime to see how he was set up, and actually admits that whoever framed him did a good job.
- While being held at gunpoint by his girlfriend (Valerie), he doesn't seem too bothered - if anything, he chuckles and admits that he feels rather foolish.
- He manages to formulate a plan to get back at Valerie. He steps out of the cabin and keeps her distracted. Gus runs out of the cabin, and Valerie responds by shooting Despereaux (but not fatally, which he anticipated). Shawn then pops up from behind her and knocks her out. And he still maintains his cool and polite demeanor even after being shot.
- Indiana Shawn
- In this episode, Shawn enlists his help to investigate the theft of a shipment. He helps the duo break into a warehouse and steal a dagger without being detected (The dagger is a key to a millionaires "core collection" of valuable paintings)
- When Shawn admits that he dropped the whip (meaning that Pierre can't swing into the lift), he tells them to meet him at a speedboat in the docks, where he manages to evade his pursuer (Jacqueline) till the boat engine runs out of fuel. He uses this as an opportunity to fake his death by having the boat blow up with him in it.
- We later learn that he was losing his trial and was never going to be acquitted. Everything that went down at the warehouse was part of his plan.
- In order to make his death seem 100% legitimate, he breaks into the DNA database and changes his name and identity to that of an unidentified body he was holding onto.
- When Jacqueline is holding the duo at gunpoint, he has a Big Damn Heroes moment where he knocks her out, and exclaims "Don't you just hate people who kill you"
- After finding the core collection, he takes the opportunity to steal one of the paintings, which was actually painted over a much more valuable Rembrandt painting.
- Lock, Stock, and Two Smoking Barrels
- In his last appearance, he is revealed to be an INTERPOL agent named Royston Staley, and is in charge of the organization. Apparently "Pierre Despereaux" was an alias.
- The only problem is that there is not record of Staley (and the superior who hired him), heavily implying an infiltration during a staff turnover.
- He infiltrates the heist team when he believes that the operation might be compromised
- When Ronnie (the Gangster) ties up the duo, Pierre once again comes to the rescue and manages to knock the guy out.
- The Superior shows up at the end of the heist and suspends Pierre (as a Royal died during the encounter), and should indicate that Royston might be real. However, Shawn and Gus later see said Superior dressed like a beggar, and it is left ambiguous as to whether is is an undercover operation, or if Despereaux hired him as part of selling his ruse.
Their reactions to Setbacks
Generally calm and composed, and has Villain Respect for Shawn. For example, after Shawn exposes him as a fraud, he decides to actually earn his title as an art thief. He is also shown going above and beyond to cover his tracks, and even someone as hyper-observant as Shawn is left confused.That being said, in the "Indiana Shawn" episode, he exclaims "What the hell was that?" as a reaction to the whip maneuver, although he doesn't linger on it too long and tells the duo be meet him at the docks. He also gets annoyed at Shawn's antics in "Lock, Stock, and Two Smoking Barrels", although he manages to retain his dignity by infiltrating the heist team and saving the duo from Ronnie's wrath
The Competition
Most of the cases Shawn investigates are run-of-the-mill cases involving revenge or money, or are career criminals. No other criminal Shawn has encountered is on the same level as Despereaux (Besides Mr. Yin, who is a Complete Monster Serial Killer)Edited by magnumtropus on Oct 19th 2021 at 7:50:09 PM
Goku Black
Okay yeah definite ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Despereaux
(The best thing is it's all but stated that the secret agent thing is a lie and it was really a great theft).
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Yeah for Ali and Despereaux.
The Draftsman of Doom
Yes to Despereaux.
Yes to Desperaux, much better go than last time and I'm happy to give the character a yea.
Do I prepare a draft now? Or who does it, and should I wait?
Edited by magnumtropus on Oct 19th 2021 at 8:07:11 PM
Give it a couple hours.
Despereaux. Much better this time around.
No to Yoshihiro. Yes to Ali and Pierre.
Gotta love Jaws!
to Ali and Pierre.
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
to Yoshihiro.
As promised, my one year anniversary EP!
What is the work?
Killer Bean Forever is a highly entertaining 2018 animated action movie which was made by one man, Jeff Lew over the course of years conceptualised in the 90’s, likely with hallucinogens. It’s genuinely quite impressive and has spawned many memes over the years, and can be watched on the official Killer Bean YouTube channel right here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyYHWkVWQ4o
It is an utter blast to watch and I highly recommend it if you want something to watch in your spare time. Now, you may be getting flashbacks here. “Didn’t Rav EP someone from this?” Yes, he got Jet Bean up. However, I messaged him in May (yeah I know) and he thinks it’s worth the effort. Without further delay, here it is!
Who is Vagan?
Vagan, known by his former Shadow Agency name as “Dark Bean” is one of the three main antagonists along with Jet Bean and Cappuccino.
What has Vagan done?
Vagan is introduced riding towards Baker Street Warehouse where Killer Bean performed his massacre on Cappuccinos' men before Cromwell shoots at the wheels of the car as it drives off. Vagan comes out of the car, and sarcastically asks the officer not to hurt him. When questioned as to what he was doing, he then remarks that he was coming to protect his property. Joking again when the officer claims he is under arrest, asking if he’s going down for a traffic violation. The officer notices Vagan’s gun and asks him if he was ready for some action to which Vagan responds that if he was there for action, the officer would not be standing there. When the officer repeats his request to arrest Vagan, Vagan points out his lawyers would quickly have him out before Cromwell lets him go and tosses him a bullet that Vagan catches, letting him know that Killer Bean was responsible for the massacre.
Vagan is next seen entering Cappuccinos’ office as he is executing some beans for incompetency. Cappuccino mentions that Vagan has handled his weapons department very well with one of the beans who was about to be executed for failure whispering to his friend saying he’s managed to make millions of dollars off of it. Vagan informs Cappuccino of the death of his nephew at the hands of Killer Bean and saying he was probably sent by one of his competitors and that he is coming after Cappuccino, though Vagan is not telling the full truth here given Killer Bean’s affiliation with the Shadow Agency and his real target. Cappuccino assigns Vagan to kill Killer Bean and find out who sent him before Vagan requests back up and leaves, ending the scene.
Killer Bean heads to one of Cappuccinos’ now abandoned warehouses, as Cappuccino decided to have all his stock consolidated to one warehouse so there were less spots to be targeted. Killer Bean enters, finding nothing except a note reading “Shadow Bean. You are too late.”. The moment he stops to read it Vagan fires a shot via sniper rifle from the opposing rooftop that comes ever so close to hitting him but he dodges. A gun fight starts where Vagan fires two more shots that come close to hitting Vagan while Killer Bean starts off firing shots where Vagan does not even have to move. His sniper has X Ray vision which allows him to see through a brick wall, he takes another shot that pierces through the wall and again almost hits Killer Bean. Killer Bean rapidly fires shots so Vagan quickly ducks behind cover before repositioning and taking another shot that yet again comes close to hitting Killer Bean. Killer Bean rapidly fires again causing Vagan to duck behind cover briefly before taking another shot that goes right by Killer Bean’s bullet and almost takes him out for the sixth and final time as Killer Bean fires a shot that pierces Vagan’s scope before attempting to fire a final shot that Vagan quickly uses the sniper rifle to block. The two exchange a look before Vagan walks away.
Vagan later appears in his final scene after Killer Bean has just performed his assault on Cappuccinos’ main warehouse. He comes in riding on a motorbike behind three mooks. The first guy is mowed down by Killer Bean and Killer Bean jumps over his motorbike as it comes hurtling towards him. The second guy is also mowed down and crashes into the warehouse wall. The third guy shoots at Killer Bean knocking the gun out of his hand.before getting roundhouse kicked off of his bike. Vagan sees all of this and realises he needs to act fast and smart given firepower won’t work. With Killer Bean pointing both of his pistols at him, Vagan leaps off of his bike while it’s still in motion and draws his pistols, using his right pistol to shoot at his bike which causes gas to leak out and his left pistol to shoot at Killer Bean’s right forcing Killer Bean to move left, and as Killer Bean goes back to go right it is too late since the bike catches up with him and explodes knocking him unconscious. Killer Bean wakes up to Cappuccino suggesting to just kill Killer Bean there and then while he’s tied up so he won’t have a chance to escape. After Cappuccino interrogates Killer Bean, he orders Killer Bean to be killed to which Vagan expresses relief. However, Killer Bean quickly engineers an escape, causing a standoff between Killer Bean and Vagan with Cappuccino standing idly. Killer Bean reveals his target is not Cappuccino but rather Vagan and allows Cappuccino to leave. However upon going to leave Cappuccino rudely fires Vagan to which Vagan casually shoots him in response. Killer Bean and Vagan discuss how two Shadow Beans had been sent after Vagan but neither had been able to kill him. Vagan is revealed to have once been one of the Shadow Agency’s best beans with Killer Bean looking up to him, but defected and supposedly betrayed the Agency whilst destroying their database and stealing the intelligence work they had done. Vagan sets the record straight and says that the Shadow Agency had betrayed him. Both beans joined the agency to “take the trash out of the world, one bullet at a time” but Vagan tells of how the Agency became increasingly corrupt. Whereas they started out working with the government to protect the people when politicians couldn’t but eventually became guns for hire for the highest bidder. Vagan’s final straw was when they had him deliver weapons to the group he had been fighting for years. He mentions that the intelligence work was his and he was taking it back so he could continue his work. He then says he had been working on the inside, gathering information from weapons deals for years regarding who is buying and who the biggest threats are. Vagan then mentions that if he doesn’t kill Killer Bean, the Shadow Agency will pursue him instead due to him now having compromising information and their lack of control over his general recklessness. He says it was smarter for them to take them out before Killer Bean found out the truth, but after he had taken Vagan out. He is able to get Killer Bean off his guard when the latter goes into denial and starts lowering his guns, but a slight jolt from him gives Killer Bean just enough time to shoot Vagan. Vagan falls to the ground, and in his final moments he explains he had to take the shot as he would’ve done more with his life than Killer Bean ever would. He then says they are both dead beans before dying.
Is Vagan intelligent? Is Vagan charismatic?
Yep on both fronts. I admit he’s not the biggest chessmaster but he’s more than intelligent and adaptive enough especially when you consider Jet Bean being listed. He shares the same qualities Jet Bean has though Vagan’s style is more based in firearms. He’s a quick thinker who makes solid tactical choices under pressure and operates very smoothly. He manipulates and uses Cappuccino who, while yes, has not got the best common sense or survival instinct, IS a very good business man and clearly has guile to spare in that department considering how he still knew just who to bribe and was still escaping justice from the police. I mean, you kinda NEED to be that competent business wise when your lackeys are so stupid. Consolidating all of his stock to one warehouse was also a smart choice, it just backfired due to Killer Bean finding it and his men being not properly prepared. And yet? Vagan easily manipulates Cappuccino and receives the information he needs from him. And for charisma, the guy is a badass who mocks people who threaten him, so I think he’s good there.
Is Vagan a bastard? Is Vagan too much of a bastard?
Vagan, while with the agency, was willing to go through a job for a rich dictator and assassinate an opposing leader, now works with Cappuccino, a ruthless crime lord and casually shoots him like he’s making his morning toast upon Cappuccino firing him. That said, he’s firmly an Anti-Villain given he still stands by a set of principleswho has genuine reason to be angry with Shadow Agency, does nothing that’s terrible and him shooting Cappuccino is absolutely hilarious.
How is Vagan’s competition?
Here are the other bastards run downs: Cappuccino who while as said is good at being a crime lord, makes the really stupid choice to fire Vagan which gets him killed. Killer Bean who is probably enough of a bastard but has an ongoing arc going in his series, suffers from impulsiveness despite his competency, And finally the film’s current MB Jet Bean whose only interaction with Cappuccino is seeing him as a corpse.
Does Vagan have any other mitigating factors?
I don’t think so. Yes, Killer Bean ends up beating Vagan to the draw despite having the advantage of Killer Bean’s split second distraction, but it’s more of a testament to Killer Bean’s skill than a flaw for Vagan and he, like Jet Bean, faces death with dignity.
Final Verdict:
Despite being missed out the first time around, I believe that Vagan is a yes! Thanks for letting me do this one Rav!
Edited by Amanofmanyinterests on Oct 19th 2021 at 11:44:16 AM
"For a second there, I mistook ya for a threat... but you're just a dirty little man!"
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Sure to Ali, Pierre, and Vagan.
Edited by Bullman on Oct 19th 2021 at 1:45:52 PM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Yes to Vagan.
I hate spoilers
Alright, I was hoping to do Toyohiro Kanedaichi afterward, but after rewatching his fight with the heroes, he hurls too many insults to qualify. That, and he gets reduced to begging pathetically after being defeated.
So I'm going with yet another Yu-Gi-Oh! candidate to make up for my failure.
Intro: Yu-Gi-Oh! GX is about a school that teaches people how to become pro duelists, in a setting where Card Games are treated as Serious Business. Throughout the series, our heroes face off against numerous opponents. In Season 1, they go up against a group of villains who want to awaken the Sealed Evil in a Can. The final henchman, Amnael, is notably stronger than the rest. But his real name is Lyman Banner.
Who is Lyman Banner?
Lyman Banner is the dorm leader of the Slifer Red Dorm and protagonist Jaden Yuki's homeroom teacher. He became a villain to warn the heroes of an upcoming danger that the Big Bad Kagemaru poses to the world, (and because he's an Immortality Seeker). He's an alchemist who's been making artificial bodies of himself to prolong his existence.
Is he Magnificent?
Yes, he is. His dueling abilities are enough to defeat three of the main characters and he was able to back The Hero into a corner, only losing due to New Powers as the Plot Demands. He was also able to operate without the bad guys knowing that he's The Mole, gaining their trust. This is where things get a little weird. In the Japanese version, he's more obsessed with alchemy, wanting to repay his backer for letting him do research and wants to determine whether he's a better alchemist than Jaden. In the dub, he's more willing to compliment Jaden for his plays, subjecting him to a Secret Test of Character (by telling him that he fixed all of his past victories) to see if he worthy of stopping Kagemaru, and apologizes after he loses. After being defeated, he surrenders a special card that ends being the key to beating the Big Bad during the climax. Regardless of which version you watch, he's still Affably Evil.
Is he a Bastard? Too much?
He was a member of the Quirky Miniboss Squad, and previously lead one of the main characters' brother into a trap where he'd be Reforged into a Minion. He also doesn't show any signs of holding back during his duels.
Final Verdict
Banner was a villain who served the Big Bad (though his reasons were different depending on the version), is shown to be good at what he does, and is a Graceful Loser upon defeat. He pulls a Heel–Face Turn and helps save the world by the end of the season.
Everyone look at my sandbox
to Lyman Banner and Vagan/Dark Bean.
to Yoshihiro Kira. He's nowhere near as pragmatic as his son and has other mitigating factors (as brought up).
Edited by Idisagree on Oct 19th 2021 at 12:07:23 PM
Leaning yes to Banner.
I’m gonna say it: the big EP I’m planning is Eggman from Sonic and Tails R. Anyone else listened to it?
to Lyman Banner and Vagan/Dark Bean
Yes to Dark Bean and Banner.
to Banner and Vagan (I remember watching Killer Bean back in 2009 and has become a fan of it even before it underwent a Colbert Bump).
I just checked out the G-Man's entry on Half-Life YMMV page, and somehow his actions in Half-Life: Alyx are not mentioned (namely, how he manages to coerce her into a Deal with the Devil and alter the timeline). Should they be considered?
I'm Sad Frogerson.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I wrote that entry up before Alyx was even announced, so that's probably why it's not mentioned.
I haven't played Alyx (or seen a walkthrough) yet, so if there's anything you'd like to add from that game to G-Man's entry, go nuts.
Shin Megami Tensei IV
for Ali, Despereaux, Vagan, and Banner.
for Yoshihiro.
Vagan, Banner.
Yes to Ali.