Duplicate tropes discussion thread

The Multiple Demographic Appeal trope is used on two separate pages of Genshin Impact...

On the VideoGame.Genshin Impact page:

• Multiple Demographic Appeal: The game is being marketed to a lot of platforms, from mobile phones, PC, PS4, and an upcoming Nintendo switch port. Aesthetically, it is for the anime-loving communities. But speaking of its mechanics, it tries to appeal to the RPG fans, open world enthusiasts, and gacha communities all at once.

On the YMMV.Genshin Impact page:

• Multiple Demographic Appeal: Outside of essentially being Breath Of The Wild for mobile devices, it also hits multiple demographics with the near equal number of pretty boys and girls, Ho Yay and Les Yay, the great story, gameplay and gacha mechanic system.

Perhaps it's better to merge the context of the two examples into one, but where should the trope be placed? Looking at its trope page, it doesn't have the YMMV notice on top (so perhaps it's a Main page trope?), but the second paragraph mentions that "this is a bit of a YMMV trope".

Also, looking at the Related pages, there are works that listed this trope on their YMMV page.

A thing is either a trope or it's YMMV. Multiple Demographic Appeal is currently classified as a trope. If people think that's wrong, that's something to take to TRS.

Putting objective tropes on YMMV pages because someone thinks they're arguable is against policy.

Edited by wingedcatgirl on May 14th 2021 at 8:39:47 AM

Didn't think this needed its own topic so thought I'd post in here. Does Not Like Spam and Picky Eater. I think I get the distinction between the two where DNLS is 'trademark least favorite food' and Picky Eater is 'a character dislikes a certain kind of food(s)' but Picky Eater isn't necessarily to the point of being associated with the character.

Often, I find that the usage of these seem interchangeable though. I'll see Does Not Like Spam often listed on a Japanese character whose profile has them listed as disliking something. A common choice in anime is green peppers, which is basically the Does Not Like Spam of Japanese children, but it's never really portrayed in a series as being part of a character's..characterization. They might not even be seen eating this particular food. This also extends into Western Animation where an episode may touch on a character's dislike of a particular kind of food but then it's never brought up again. To me, this just seems like Picky Eater in effect.

Possible wick check in order?

Edited by YourIdeas on May 14th 2021 at 8:52:35 AM

I was about to argue that being a Picky Eater is more about what type of foods one likes, rather than what they dislike...

Until I read the trope description.

Yeah, there's an issue here.

Is Picky Eater not straightforwardly "children (and childish adults) are picky about their food"? I'm kinda skimming the description but I don't see anything that's blatantly outside of that theme.

That's what I kind of thought too, but the first few paragraphs seem to heavily lean on 'character dislikes a certain food'. When I think picky eater, I definitely think 'Alice only tolerates eating apples and pizza and ham-and-cheese sandwiches', not 'Alice has a dislike of carrots but is fine with nearly anything else'.

Edited by YourIdeas on May 14th 2021 at 9:08:57 AM

Most of the description seems to be a digression on the biology of real-world children often disliking things that adults think taste fine. The core tropable bit is in the first paragraph: "A character, usually quite young, dislikes a certain type of food, most frequently a vegetable"

May also want to take a look at Stock "Yuck!", which is supposed to be about foods that are memetic serial offenders, but seems to have degraded into a list of foods that might be disliked by a subset of society for some reason. (The Soft-Split thread put it on the back burner because we don't know where to even start with the folders)

Edited by underCoverSailsman on May 14th 2021 at 11:12:38 AM

My bigger concern is that it's so focused on children and vegetables. Sure, kids can be picky eaters, but I don't know if the trope needs to be that centered around it. Maybe this is just nitpicking though, because again, I expected the trope to take a different angle.

What's the difference between Lampshade Hanging and Better than a Bare Bulb? Looking at the page for Better than a Bare Bulb, it just seems like Lampshade Hanging, but exaggerated.

Edited by RustBeard on May 16th 2021 at 4:53:13 AM

I think it's for works that are primarily made up of lampshade hanging, to the point where it defines a lot of their comedy.

Living Dinosaurs seem to be The Same But More Specific of Not So Extinct.

That was adress during the Trope Launch. Not So Extinct at least at its current stage, is based on fantasy creatures and makes reference to things like dragons and vampires, rarely speaks about biological real life forms.

Also, it should be noted that some examples in Living Dinosaurs are not about dinosaurs not been extinct but about dinosaurs surviving and evolving into something else (Silurians, Voth) which is also not exactly the same as in Not So Extinct.

Edited by Luppercus on May 17th 2021 at 4:34:02 AM

Not So Extinct covers real ones too.

Very seldom, but yes. However does not cover for evolutionary descendants like the Silurians.

Edited by Luppercus on May 17th 2021 at 9:15:44 AM

Don't forget that there are real life living dinosaurs. They're called birds (it's mentioned in the Real Life folder of Living Dinosaurs).

Edited by Nen_desharu on May 17th 2021 at 9:53:24 AM

Indeed.

So after looking at today's Featured Trope, I was reminded of something I was confused by. Nephewism and Chaste Toons both deal with a character being raised by their aunt and uncle, with the main difference being that the former is for live-action works and the latter is for animation. And even then that's not really enough of a distinction; the former trope still has examples from animation and the latter still has examples from live-action. I don't see any reason why these are separate tropes.

I think the page images do a pretty good job of distinguishing them... Nephewism is analogous to Raised by Grandparents where for whatever reason (they're not important, they're hugely important later on, you just wanted to give your character an orphan backstory without putting them on the streets) they are raised by their aunt and uncle.

Chaste Toons is about how you want to introduce kid relatives but don't want to imply your characters had sex, so you just make them a member of the extended family.

Harry Potter and Spider-Man are both two famous characters from two different mediums raised by their aunt and uncle for two different reasons. But Uncle Vernon and Aunt Petunia are the furthest thing from Chaste Toons (they have a kid of their own, too). It has nothing to do with live action/animation and that line should be removed.

If you allow me to give my opinion on the recent cases:

Regarding Picky Eater and Does Not Like Spam, I do feel both tropes are similarly enough to be merge, but it is possible that is a naming problem as others have commented Picky Eater not really communicates the idea of rejecting certain types of food. Yes, I think there's a trope in pop culture about kids hating vegetables for example but probably that should be the name "Kids Hate Vegetables" to be more clear (however Stock Yuck kind of covers that already too). Another option would be to switch the meanings as that PE and DNLS are exact opposites one about choosing to eat only or mostly one type of food and the other about rejecting one type of food.

Living Dinosaurs seem to be more about the modern descendants of the prehistoric dinosaurs that would be considered by biology a different species of animal whilst Not So Extinct is more about the actual animal or creature considered to be extinct and not without changes in its taxonomy if you wish. However some examples of LD may work better in NSW. Merging them thus would not be the best option but some misuse could be fix by transferring some of the examples of one into the other.

Nephewism and Chaste Toons are also not the same. Whilst Nephewism is more about orphans raised by their parents, there's no need for characters in CT to be orphans, in fact Donald Duck's nephews in many versions have their parents still living, they just hang around the adult non-parent character. There could be however some cases of examples from one that correspond to the other. Also I think the description of Chaste Toons may need a reworking as puts to much weight on nephews (they could be related in another way like cousins, godchildren etc.) and mentions Nephewism as the "non-animated version" but Nephewism actually has a Western Animation section.

The distinction between Picky Eater and Does Not Like Spam should be "dislikes many foods" vs "dislikes one specific food". As written, however, I agree that the descriptions sound very similar. Picky Eater ought to go through the TRS and/or Trope Description Improvement drive, not sure which is more applicable.

Where does Play-Along Prisoner stop and Self-Restraint begin?

To our understanding, Self-Restraint means the prisoner believes their imprisonment is just and deserved, while Play-Along Prisoner just doesn't feel like escaping.

You could say Play-Along Prisoner is the supertrope? Might or might not have enough distinction to be worth keeping separate.

I think Self-Restraint is supposed to be about characters who could trivially break out of imprisonment but don't for personal/moral reasons, while Play-Along Prisoner is for people who play along with capture for a while before breaking out (often for a personal plan, though nothing about the trope makes me think they're required to have a strong reason for it).

Self-Restraint could definitely use its description tightened up a bit, the first part is pretty clear but the later paragraphs muddle the definition.

So, what's the difference between Villain Ball and Bond Villain Stupidity?

^ The answer here is spot on.