Condemned by History cleanup thread

For a while, someone had this:

• Everybody Loves Raymond was a wildly popular sitcom during its original run, especially in its early seasons. It was a pretty groundbreaking show in its time, exploring new concepts such as a family sitcom that didn't focus on the children, leaning on the Ugly Guy, Hot Wife trope for laughs, and appealing to different fan bases with an intergenerational cast. Unfortunately, many subsequent sitcoms would go on to take these novel concepts and do them better, which would go on to diminish much of ELR's original appeal. Also hurting the show's popularity was its near-constant syndication on cable, which started even before the original series ended. This would lead to many TV viewers getting inundated with reruns of the show and subsequently getting tired of it. Today, the once-classic show is mainly remembered as a cliche 90s/early 2000s sitcom reliant on repetitive jokes and overused tropes.

This sounds more like just a simple case of Seinfeld Is Unfunny mixed with complaining.

I mean, we still have cable and that show is rerun endlessly to this day, and I don’t remember any specific backlash, per se, so I think it’s invalid.

Could Final Fantasy XV potentially be seen as an example of Condemned by History? It seemed to have the same issues as Halo Infinite(too early to tell for Halo Infinite but what happened there was that people started liking the game but ended up turning on it due to “wasted potential” and scrapped content) is heading into nowadays in that everyone was starry eyed when it came out and people were declaring how Ardyn was one of the "best villains ever" and how "this game saved Final Fantasy franchise", but now all people remember is it's development mess and the possibility that the game was heavily altered from a much more compelling vision to what it was

Edited by xie323 on Dec 28th 2022 at 3:57:56 AM

Eh, I remember people already being very hard on it when it first came out, and a lot of people have said that while they disliked it when it first came out, the continuous patches and content additions made it much better. Plus a lot of people who think after all this time that it's a heavily flawed game they wouldn't necessarily play again but that they still enjoyed the experience, or feel sorry for the game's developers and choose to pin the blame mostly on Squenix's Executive Meddling getting in the way of it being better. Perhaps specific aspects might qualify but IMO there just isn't enough consistency to the opinions for it to qualify one way or another.

AFAIR the "saving the FF franchise" thing was mostly from people put off by the FFXIII trilogy being three games in a row of being up its own rear at the expense of having sympathetic characters.

Edited by AlleyOop on Dec 28th 2022 at 5:54:10 AM

Yes, all the reviews on this site talk about how it has huge gaps in its story and not enough variety in gameplay, and that the patches and stripped-down mobile version has made it better by filling these in. In fact my own experience of playing was hitting into weird restrictions on where I could go, missing features like the bestiary and aggravating glitches until I downloaded hours of patches.

This was added to the video game section:

• While never a critical darling, Sonic and the Secret Rings was held in higher regard upon release than it would be in later years. Reviewers saw the game as an improvement over recent titles, particularly Sonic the Hedgehog (2006), with several praising it as a return to the faster-paced action that was deemed lacking in the series' console installments following the Video Game 3D Leap. The game was also liked for its use of motion controls, and as well as Sonic being the sole playable character, as dislike of the franchise's ever-expanding cast (especially as playable characters) had become a common refrain amongst the fan community. In the years since, however, it would join its sister game Sonic and the Black Knight in being derided by critics and fans both. The novelty of motion controls would soon wear off, with the gameplay controls now being seen as clunky and irritating to deal with; the plot was seen as more ridiculous, with Sonic being trapped in One Thousand and One Nights now seeing the same dismissal and skepticism as him becoming a werehog or wielding a sword; and the release of more universally-liked home console entries like Sonic Colors and Sonic Generations meant prior 3D games were now held up to even greater scrutiny.

Needless to say, IIRC its a cult classic, not CBH.

I remember tons of people at release calling it awful and unplayable. And a 69% (nice) score on Metacritic hardly constitutes rousing acclaim

Yeah, this game was never well liked enough to start with to qualify.

~Kuruni Just so you know, we are discussing the entry you just un-commented out here, and consensus so far (including from me, since I didn't mention it before) is to cut it.

For clarification, they commented it out before posting here, because "Lot's of people like it (me included)".

I'm fine with removing it after proper discussion (and since the reason is that it's always considered to be an awful game, the irony is just beautiful), although I would rather wait for a day or two instead of just few hours.

Edited by Kuruni on Dec 30th 2022 at 12:12:52 AM

I'm not sure about Secret Rings, there is a good case to be made that it fits: A recent Geek Critique video showed that the game originally had an 8.0 out of 10 user score on Metacritic when it came out, but in the 15 years since has dropped to a 6.2 out of 10. No other Sonic game (even Unleashed) had their fan reception notably change like that. And while the game's critical reviews weren't the greatest, it was seen as a marked improvement, and a comeback, after '06.

This was added today

• At the time of its release RWBY was well received and was seen as a solid series with entertaining and fun fight scenes and cool characters. However in the following years, especially after the death of beloved creator Monty Oum and ensuing Seasonal Rot, many people began to reevaluate it more negatively, arguing that several controversial elements of the show (tropey plots, inconsistent world building, vague motivations of several characters and the hated White Fang) were actually present from the beginning. Thus, RWBY's reception has since become overwhelmingly negative.

I'd say its more Franchise Original Sin due to being otherwise liked IIRC.

I added it. I'll remove it.

Condemned by History doesn't apply to you know works that are still ongoing for the simple reason that their happening now?

Wow THAT was fast! If only all tropers could be like you!

RWBY still has an active fandom, so it doesn't really count as condemned. TV Tropes doesn't list "lots of people hate this" opinions unless there's a near-universal agreement that the show is trash and not worth watching.

Any given work with a large fandom is bound to have many haters.

After all, there's the trope It's Popular, Now It Sucks!.

So, do you think an edit describing the Safari Zone in Pokémon games would count as something that was condemned by history? I think it links the pattern because at first it was seen as a change of pace, its removal from Gen 2 games was seen as a downgrade, and nowadays it's overall seen as a Scrappy Mechanic and nobody really mourns its loss.

I would like to ask you people if this would even count as something - it's referring more to a mechanic rather than a specific work or a genre. While Pokémon is technically still ongoing, it's more of a mechanic thing that was unique to the first four generation(s), so that's why I think it could possibly count?

Thank you for your opinions.

Edited by RuebenSandwich on Jan 8th 2023 at 10:08:32 AM

How does everyone feel about this entry that was just added to YMMV.Puss In Boots 2011? I feel like the timing of this inclusion makes it play out like an inverse of the knee-jerk "new installment sucks" Vindicated by History entries, but maybe there's some more validity to it with context, again maybe?

• Condemned by History: Upon release, it was seen as a return to form for the Shrek franchise, being much better received than the generally disliked 3rd and 4th sequels. However following Forever After's reapraisal and the Last Wish's huge improvements, this film's flaws have come to light much more. Common criticisms include the forgetable story and the film's lack of subversion towards fairy tale tropes.

The first PIB is generally considered more So Okay, It's Average, and I don't see anyone outright being ashamed of ever liking it, so I say cut it.

Yeah, I've never heard of anyone saying the movie is bad. I don't hear anyone talk about it at all actually.

Same, I’ve not seen much discussion about the film period. It seems to have its own cult following but otherwise not made much of a splash.

Agreed. I don't think Puss counts. I think you can cut.

Edited by themayorofsimpleton on Jan 9th 2023 at 5:51:07 AM

Considering how Overshadowed by Controversy Harry Potter is and how many people have looked back and found a lot of problems with the setting and story to the point even longtime fans have little good to say about it, would anybody say its CBH?

Nope. Still has a large fanbase.