Trope Pantheon Story thread

As Someone Else pointed out, we're not very keen on approving this as a standalone story at all. I'm willing to see if I can implement the concept as a subplot for Lines of Chaos if it is approved, but as a separate Tale, not so much.

Camilla, you still added the entire house under "The Scrappy" in the main tropes page, and the YMMV page for the whole Alternate!Gentaro arc was exploited to keep attacking the House of Prophecy, and your words here contradict your edits to other pages. Safind has already proposed on making a subplot in one of his tales over Prophecy's inability to prevent disasters on Discord, so it will be addressed in some way.

You need to be careful now with your tales for now on, since we have plenty in store for quite some time, and we're mainly focusing on lesser-used characters. Do you see me continue to propose ideas on the Princesses of Heart (original and new) being captured again and again? It gets annoying after awhile, and they have a strong risk of becoming snark baits from the others.

Edited by MysteriousZorua1994 on Jan 11th 2019 at 4:44:34 AM

My incomplete Tale of Ascension for Nine-Ball is available here. Any constructive criticism is appreciated.

@Safind, you can make your story. PFAP is going to be a side-story here as opposed to a full story. And yes, I'm giving you the green-light to do Daughters of Data and Revival of Aku.

Edited by HotmanX32 on Jan 10th 2019 at 12:23:36 PM

After some thought, the PFAP concept is being moved to Daughters of Data. LOC was getting overstuffed with plot points, while it has more room to breathe in DOD. I plan to have Neo and the Oracle be the ones discussing it.

@Camilla: Remember, we have to finish Shattered Illusion soon. I'll do my part as well.

@Hotman: I know I'm at a terrible standing with you, but I got these things I don't believe can be resolved in singular trivia bullets. Or maybe they can, if I could just receive feedback that's more than just a succinct refusal.

1. The inevitability that someone can steal the Meta-Nav from the Phantoms. I've at least tried to cover that bit in Futaba's profile and in the GUAG White Hats page. I'll probably fix that up a little more.
2. The eventuality of Goro Akechi encountering the Phantoms face-to-face once again. With all the friends and enemies they've been making, they can't stay separated forever. Crownless Mimic believes they won't just make up from there, but there would be an understanding that they might cooperate in future. It can always be retconned come Persona 5 Rumble (the theorized fighting game, if the R represents that) if he appears there.
3. The first Palace Heist of the Phantoms, including inevitability of Status Quo Is God (they can at least disrupt their targets in the present), Calling Card, and ramifications of sending one (i.e. more than just the group in danger if they do so). Target: Ghetsis Harmonia.
4. An alternative to Palace Heists (not stealing hearts of their targets, but doing what they did to the Shadow of Sae Niijima, right before Akechi's expected betrayal).

Camilla and I are at work on Phantom Thieves stories to cover these if they cam be made into stories after all. Of course, we'll have to complete them first before they can be properly judged. But you can by accessing the links in my Sandbox 3.

Edited by nightelf37 on Jan 12th 2019 at 4:01:58 AM

These do not need to all be four separate stories. One, two tops.

I agree, you run the risk of overusing the Phantom Thieves.

Which almost was another issue i had with the scrapped world of light story. Which in hindsight it's funny

, Well, I'm all ears for trivia bullet-only alternatives. If it can be done that way, I'll do it. Preferably Akechi's eventual "reunion".

Okay, here's the thing.

1. is already addressed in bullet points. Ann (I believe) gave Carmen Sandiego the app specifically because Carmen might be able to steal it, and whatever 9S did when he hacked into Futaba's shit that she's still displeased about might just well be related to the app.
2. can easily be covered in The Stinger to a story that directly precedes P5R if that is in fact what Atlus is planning.
3. and
4. can both be part of the same story, especially if Ghetsis has an accomplice that can be swayed.

Also, to Camilla. Penny for a Prophet is 100% NOT going to be accepted in the Pantheon as a standalone story, so if you wanna keep writing it as such, that's your prerogative. Its plot points will be adapted into other works, and right now I'm trying to figure out how that would play out based on everything I'm seeing both of what you're putting on the page and what myself and others have pointed out and concluded. Here's some examples of what I think is probably gonna happen.

• The "questioning the House of Prophecy" angle will not be a conclusion that a horde of heroic gods naturally come to just because the Cutie Mark Crusaders happened to go on a trip without leaving a note, but the result of a villain's manipulations in one of safind's future stories, most likely one of the two he's already brought up on the page.
  • Menat will most likely be featured as a character looking for the solution to the question about the House after seeing it come up a couple of times, but ultimately will have to defer to Tony Stark in this role. Tony's connection with Vanille and Fang of the Defiers of Fate, combined with his technological and cognitive genius, means he knows full well and can demonstrate in holographic detail the truth about what the House of Prophecy is and more importantly is NOT. This means that whatever punishment, diminishing, or takedown you had in mind for the House of Prophecy is not only scrapped as of now, but will be proven entirely unnecessary to begin with.
  • On that note, any call-outs the Project: Alternate!Gentaro reactionaries give to the House of Prophecy based on their clear and present misconception that all the omnipotent clairvoyants are there (they're not), will be returned in force by Tony, the rest of the Defiers of Fate, and others who served as heroes during Year 2's crises, such as Vegeta and Olivier Armstrong. The Year 2 protags never sought clairvoyants for advance knowledge throughout the year and in some cases even outright refused help from more powerful fighters, yet have still managed to build and strengthen their ranks to keep up with the organization of the villainous alliances, and again, some of those allies *coughAbsolcough* are from that same House that's being accused of being good-for-nothing. Naturally, they will be pissed at the PAG reactionaries' obvious scapegoating, some even describing it as "disgusting mental weakness", and this will cause a mild schism until the plot is resolved. This will all ultimately lead to that gag order decree regarding all of PAG's events going forward, most likely devised by good deities who were involved in both PAG and the Year 2 sagas.
• Gangrel and the Crusaders's official split will retroactively occur in Through Darkness and Mirrors, and his becoming The Shut-In will be resolved through an encounter with some character with canon regrets of the Revenge Before Reason or Leeroy Jenkins variety (i.e. Scorpion) in whatever future story said character is already planned to appear, and/or a scene with Edge in which their lack of a real history is finally addressed in the open. (p.s. If the latter takes place, I will personally write it, because Edge is my favorite wrestler of all time.) The Crusaders' new friendship with Bayley and The New Day will be referenced in the future through cameos, but none of them will be serious plot participants in the future.
• Other minor plot points and mythology gags will be revisited in future stories. For example, the still-totaled Toku Base will be further damaged during a battle set in the early stages of Homunculus Theory; Elena is still writing her book, and Menat will receive the letter from it and give her thoughts on G when and if G's ascension actually happens, which will most likely be set sometime in Year 3; Gentaro's studies will probably be brought up by Elena at some point; etc.

To make a wrestling reference since you and I are bringing that up a lot, there's a Vince Russo effect at work here. The plans you want to push forward do contain some good material, but if the whole is allowed unchecked it will most likely cause unnecessary chaos that does not mesh with future story plans and thus will force the rest of us to work around things that should not be there. So instead of giving carte blanche to those plans, we're going to filter, scatter, and adapt them to where they can function within everything we're already doing. If you want to be trusted to lead new works again, you're going to have to understand this and be willing to work with us.

Edited by SomeoneElse17 on Jan 12th 2019 at 10:33:25 AM

Actually, I was just going to have the overall Pantheon file the PAG arc away as another incident, albeit one that might have some members try to study the Pantheon's reciprocity with The Multiverse at large. And as for DOD and LOC, which use it as springboards due to deliberate Sequel Hook within that story, none of the characters involved care about 'Prophecy' or 'Destiny', since it's never really factored into their lives.

Well, except for Neo, since I plan for him to have some misgivings about it during DOD, which, while in progress, will include Lain Iwakura, thus making it somewhat plot relevant, or at least, something of an angle for the characters to investigate out of caution.

But an actual mob-fueled backlash against the House? No. Just Neo discussing it with the Oracle, and maybe Lain.

That actually sounds a bit more interesting. In any case, I didn't even guarantee that that mob scenario would even take place. I just stated what would happen if it does. Notice the wording: any call-outs will be met with this response here. If there are no call-outs…

@Someone Else: Well, in the stories I was writing...

1. It's a GUAG White Hat who is the culprit (because who would want to miss out on the chance to try the Meta-Nav for themselves?), though the issue with Carmen does get addressed when the Phantoms catch sight of her in the Metaverse, and despite the plausible excuse, Panther will cave in and confess.
2. I was recently finished with an SSLP of Nier Automata; there is no real need to involve 9S in this.
3. This might instead be a two-part story covering what the Phantoms can do now in the Pantheon.
4. The intended target isn't even related to Ghetsis. Rather, it's Baron Wulfenbach, and the client is Agatha Heterodyne. The alt method she's proposing is to try and lower his priority on capturing her, since to change his heart would result in it being undone by the Court of the Gods because of status quo.

But like I said, if it can be done in trivia bullets only, that would be very preferable, especially given my current standing with HotmanX32. After finishing the Shattered Illusion rework with Camilla, no more "official" Pantheon stories for me.

So, here's what I got so far in regards to the "Heist on Ghetsis Harmonia" mini-plot. Only the barest possible essentials.

• First, the Heist is arranged and N is involved in the planning, including having to account for Pokémon Types both on N's party and possible Cognitions in Harmonia's Palace.
• As for why N is requesting a Heist, despite knowing his "father"'s true colors, he wants to go because he wants to find out why and how he became the monster he is today. Also, while status quo would revert him after the Heist, they can still influence him in the present as he was currently planning something big for the GUAE; a change of heart can mess that up and make it fail.
• During the Heist, upon an early run-in with Shadow Harmonia, N awakens a Metaverse Persona (still figuring out the criteria), as he finally accepts that there's no redeeming his "father" no matter how much he hopes otherwise.
• When the time comes for the Calling Card, it gets sent as usual, with only a cursory warning to their other allies beforehand.
• During the final day, turns out Team Plasma have sent forces all over the Pantheon to get at Ren's Confidants (after failing to find the Phantoms themselves at their temples); thankfully, Sojiro's current customers for the day were willing and able to defend him, and Sae was with Matt Murdock/Daredevil and Jennifer Walters/She-Hulk when they closed in on her (Chihaya foresaw the attack, went to pick up Hifumi, then took refuge in Street Fighter!Rose's temple).
  • Alternatively, Sae was with Ryotaro Dojima and it becomes a chase scene as she rides with him atop his Shiisaa (after it becomes impossible to escape by car).
• The Heist is eventually successfully concluded, and N will be hopefully available for future adventures.
• The Phantoms are called to Cafe Leblanc, and are confronted by Sojiro and the rest of the Confidants, where they explain what had happened. Now, the Phantoms know the consequences and have to be careful next time. They also wonder what alternatives to heart-changing can they do, which will occur in the next tale.

The next part, the "Heist on Klaus Wulfenbach" will be covered here.

• Ren gets a message from Agatha Heterodyne that she wishes for his crew's services. He complies and they convene in her temple (and she swears the sentient castle to secrecy) while keeping her other friends in the dark.
• Agatha explains what she wishes to be done on Klaus, and the Phantoms find this plan to be interesting and probably more substantial than their Heists back in their home dimension.
• The new Heist proceeds as planned, Violetta manages to sneak in and join them, (I've yet to work the details), and is a success. No Metaverse Persona is awakened for Agatha, not that she was looking forward to one, though.

And that's all I got.

Edited by nightelf37 on Jun 29th 2019 at 5:06:47 PM

When it comes to stories, I'd sort of love to see the "after effects" with Shantae being forced into a Zero Suit Samus body by Galeem.

• Shantae was able to get into Smash after all! ...As a spirit, that is. She was one of countless victims to Galeem's light beams, being forced into a Zero Suit Samus clone body in an attempt to delay the Fighter's approach to Rathalos' cove. After recovering her body in the House of Life and Death, she took it to oppose both the Lord of Light and Embodiment of Chaos and Darkness. Dharkon himself is not a big fan of the Half-Genie Hero, due to her inherent light magic, making her a slightly higher priority target to the abomination.

• As of late, Shantae's been nervous to approach Samus due to a certain event where Galeem created a Zero Suit Samus body for the captive spirit of the half-genie to possess in an attempt to stop the fighters. For the most part, Samus doesn't mind Shantae, since she was a victim of a universe-ending attack by the Lord of Light that reduced almost everyone into spirits, though she could do without all the art and jokes born from this incident.

The Shattered Illusion rework is almost done. Just letting you know, because I'll be retconning the profiles that are most affected by that story (as well as the Persona Overhaul): Nanako and Ryotaro Dojima.

I've already written profiles treating that as canon, such as Sho Minazuki.

A thing I'd find intriguing as a story is that Galeem and Dharkon start trying to take over the Pantheon after the Trollkaiger (specifically Yuuki and Izaya) broke the seal on their temple in an attempt to "have fun" with the Overdeities. As a result, the Pantheon is now orbited by the Lord of Light and Embodiment of Chaos and Darkness as far as they can possibly be, resulting in the vast majority of the Pantheon (aside from the Main House) being shrouded in an intense, burning light and a deep, cold shadow, respectively. Mario, Link, and the Smash Bros fighters, as well as everyone else opposing the two beings mobilizes to face off and stop them from destroying the Pantheon. All the meanwhile, the two pick off easy targets who'd make for powerful footsoldiers, starting with Yuuki and the Trollkaiger.

I'm sure Izaya's the reason why the Trollkaiger keeps getting their butts kicked.

BTW, does the Pantheon group have a Discord?

Edited by SundownLiterati on Feb 17th 2019 at 5:01:31 AM

They did try to do an attack once after ascending. It ended on a Mutual Kill, so i don't think we are in any danger from Galeem and Dharkon.

That's because they were too close together. Keep them apart and they can do quite a bit of damage

And No double-posting

Edited by nightelf37 on Feb 18th 2019 at 10:30:27 PM

I smell War of Light and I came... not that way

Surrrreeee you did.

Thread bump. Shattered Illusion really needs to be reworked. With Camilla seemingly gone, it'll have to be up to me, but I'm currently banned. That said, it's still not completely done yet, so I won't link to the document. It can already be found in a previous post of mine anyway.

I do have a general question relating to the TV World. Would Shantae be able to qualify for a chance to get herself a Persona or, considering that Nega Shantae can be an Enemy Without under the Genie's Lamp control or an Enemy Within when her magic became polarized, would that disqualify her from going into the TV World?

Check the rules in the page; they were ma de to keep the influence of the series from getting too bloated.

Here they are just in case.

1. Acquired Personas are only usable within certain domains (e.g. TV World, Dark Hour-affected areas, the Metaverse, etc.), so it's pointless if your reason for going is just for a power-up. Only deities who come from/appear in the Persona universe(s) (e.g. the Dojimas, Ren's Confidants, Vincent Brooks) are exempt from this rule.
2. For most "clients", the Enemy Within has to be a canon Enemy Within. Otherwise, their issues have to pertain to events within the Pantheon.
3. Personas can only be acquired for Intermediate Gods and lower.
4. For canon Enemies Within, The requirement for negative emotions to manifest should be if they manifested in a physical way in canon.
5. Brainwashing and Demonic Possessions do not count as eligible Persona material.
6. Corollary to Rule 5: if they get bad enough, are filed under the conditions for Rule 2.
7. Enemies Without depend on how they were handled in their home canons. If the Enemy Without becomes an independent character (i.e. Dark Marik), they cannot be used for Personas.
8. Alternate versions and clones do not count as Persona material.
9. If peace was made with the Enemy Within/Split Personality, then it cannot be used as a Persona and must follow that universe's rules.
10. Both the Investigation Team and the Phantom Thieves of Hearts have the right to refuse you if they don't find you deserving of a Persona.

If Nega Shantae existed as an Enemy Without, Shantae can't get a Persona. And any mind-control related alternate identities count her out, too. She can still go to the TV World, it's just that no Persona can appear. Ironically, it makes her an ideal non-client party member, since no chance for Persona means no chance of encountering her Shadow if going with a friend (and the Investigation Team).

Edited by nightelf37 on Jul 9th 2019 at 10:01:00 PM