Note: If a newly launched trope was already given a No Real Life Examples, Please! or Limited Real Life Examples Only designation while it was being drafted on the Trope Launch Pad, additions to the proper index do not need to go through this thread. Instead, simply ask the mods to add the trope via this thread
.
This is the thread to report tropes with problematic Real Life sections.
Common problems include:
- Conversation on the Main Page
- Flame Bait
- Squicky content
- Impossible in Real Life
Real Life sections on the wiki are kept as long as they don't become a problem. If you find an article with such problems, report it here. Please note that the purpose of this thread is to clean up and maintain real life sections, not raze them. Cutting should be treated as a last resort, so please only suggest cutting RL sections or a subset thereof you think the examples in question are completely unsalvageable.
If historical RL examples are not causing any problems, consider whether it would be better to propose a No Recent Examples, Please! (via this forum thread) for RL instead of NRLEP. If RL examples are causing problems only for certain subjects, consider whether a Limited Real Life Examples Only restriction would be preferable to NRLEP.
If you think a trope should be No Real Life Examples, Please! or Limited Real Life Examples Only, then this thread is the place to discuss it. However, please check Keep Real Life Examples first to see if it has already been brought up in the past. If not, state the reasons and add it to the crowner.
Before adding to the crowner:
- The trope should be proposed in the thread, along with reasons for why a crowner is necessary instead of a cleanup.
- There must be support from others in thread.
- Any objections should be addressed.
- Allow a minimum of 24 hours for discussion.
When adding to the crowner:
- Be sure to add the trope name, a link to where the discussion started, the reasons for crownering, whether the restriction being proposed is NRLEP or LRLEO (and in the latter case, which subject(s) the restriction would be for), and the date added.
- Announce in thread that you are adding the item.
- An ATT advert should be made as well (batch items together if more than one trope goes up in a day).
In order for a crowner to pass:
- Must have been up for a minimum of a week
- There must be a 2:1 ratio
- If the vote is exactly 2:1 or +/- 1 vote from that, give it a couple extra days to see if any more votes come in
- Once passed, tropes must be indexed on the appropriate NRLEP index
- Should the vote fail, the trope should be indexed on KRLE page
Sex Tropes, Rape and Sexual Harassment Tropes, and Morality Tropes are banned from having RL sections so tropes under those indexes don't need crowner vote.
Crowner entries that have already been called will have "(CLOSED)" appended to them — and are no longer open for discussion.
After bringing up a trope for discussion, please wait at least a day for feedback before adding it to the crowner.
NRLEP tag:
%%https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13350380440A15238800
LRLEO tag:
%%The following restrictions apply: [list restriction(s) here]
%%https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13350380440A15238800
Notes:
- This thread is not for general discussion regarding policies for Real Life sections or crowners. Please take those conversations to this Wiki Talk thread.
- Do not try to overturn previous No Real Life Examples, Please! or Limited Real Life Examples Only decisions without a convincing argument.
- As mentioned here, the consensus is that NRLEP warnings in trope page descriptions can use bold text so that they stand out.
- The [[noreallife]] tag doesn't currently work. This is a deprecated tag that was introduced many years ago — originally, it would have displayed a NRLEP warning banner when you edited the page. However, there's been some staff conversation (Feb 2024) about what a new technical solution might look like, so we'd advise against deleting these from pages, at least until we have a decision as to whether it'll be fixed or replaced.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Mar 8th 2024 at 10:49:13 AM
OMG LOL but yeah I agree with the last 2 posts.
Discord: Waido X 255#1372 If you cant contact me on TV Tropes do it here.
Can't think of any arguments against Town Girls, Take Over the World, or Everyone Loves Blondes. Crying Critters seems like an easy cut (it's also ROCEJ-violating medical advice, or in this case veterinary advice).
The Enforcer
Age-Inappropriate Art and its related trope Nightmare Fuel Coloring Book are attracting gossipy examples about kids' mental health issues and are also probably Too Common on principle. I've worked with enough kids to know that they draw/write/roleplay etc pretty dark stuff even without traumatic experiences.
they/them pronouns. Look at my Neocities.
- In real life, new technology frequently makes old jobs obsolete — in the 1800s, 70% of the population was involved in agriculture. In the 21st century, only 1% of the population was involved in agriculture. However, what actually ends up happening is new jobs appear in greater numbers than the ones replaced, because the overall rise in productivity means that people can produce even more stuff, and more importantly, afford more stuff. The net result is that even though each person produces more stuff, they have more ability to buy more stuff as well, meaning that more people are needed to make more things for each person.
- Nonetheless, there are numerous challenges to that notion. One such argument is detailed in The Lights in the Tunnel, a free ebook by Martin Ford, available at http://www.thelightsinthetunnel.com/.
- C.G.P.Grey posted a YouTube video, "Humans Need Not Apply", which theorizes that much of the human workforce will be made unemployable by robots, in the same way the horse was made unemployable by the motor vehicle.
- Two articles from The Economist, "The third great wave", and "Wealth without workers, workers without wealth", have observed that the digital boom could be far more disruptive to labor markets than the two Industrial Revolutions were.
- This report published by the Gartner Group.
- The technologist Jaron Lanier has written that the Internet has destroyed the American middle class.
- One article has a variation of the argument: that it's not robots stealing jobs, but the corporate monopolies that majority-own the robots.
- Nonetheless, there are numerous challenges to that notion. One such argument is detailed in The Lights in the Tunnel, a free ebook by Martin Ford, available at http://www.thelightsinthetunnel.com/
- Subverted with the advent of drum machines. When the Linn LM-1 first came out in the early 1980s, it was initially feared that it would put every session drummer in Los Angeles out of work, with a number of them purchasing it to offer 'drum programming services'. Such fears proved unfounded, as drum machines became a complement to session drummers, instead of a competitor. Additionally, the LM-1 quickly became outdated as competitors entered the market, and electronic drum kits that could be played like acoustic kits were developed.
- Another musical example being this ill-fated ad campaign in the 1930s by the American Federation of Musicians protesting the use of recorded music in theatres, having you believe this trope is true. Played straight in that recorded music has taken over in this setting and that many musicians struggle to make a living, whilst cynics claim the industry reaps all the rewards; subverted in that recording has not taken away the enjoyment of live music altogether, and the fact that many modern commentators basically see it as the dying throes of a doomed industry, with parallels to more modern developments.
- More recently, Elton John remarked, "I do think it would be an incredible experiment to shut down the whole internet for five years and see what sort of art is produced over that span." Surprisingly for a musician, he wasn't necessarily referring to online piracy, but more that he felt that the Internet was making people emotionally detached and over-reliant on technology, and that it allowed Dreadful Musicians to flood the market with poorly produced material.
- Another musical example being this
Age-Inappropriate Art and Nightmare Fuel Coloring Book are related to the NRLEP Troubling Unchildlike Behavior and the IUEO Music/Age Dissonance.
Ludd Was Right I can see being Too Controversial. It's a cousin to Science Is Bad.
Edited by MissConduct on May 30th 2023 at 7:10:39 AM
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I wasn't proposing a crowner, just cleanup because that's all I think it needs right now.
Okay, I'm just saying that Ludd Was Right is related to other currently NRLEP tropes like Science Is Bad and the rest of The Only Righteous Index of Fanatics!.
Off topic, but Heroic Sacrifice is Morality-related (since it suggests someone is a capital-H "Hero"), a death trope, debatably even a suicide trope, which makes it Gossipy, Too Common, potholing to NRLEP tropes (particularly Tear Jerker), has some concerning examples (Budd Dwyer? Heroic Sacrifice? Really?), and attracting weblinks, anecdotes and gushing.
Am I a weirdo?
I just stumbled upon Urban Legend Love Life, which has a real life section full of talking about and speculating on the sex lives of various historical figures. I've seen a number of tropes crownered and even declared NRLEP for having real life sections that aren't nearly as bad, so it's probably worth bringing up/
Bigotry will NEVER be welcome on TV Tropes.
Yeah, that one could do without a Real Life tab.
"We are all so afraid, we are all so alone, we all so need from the outside the assurance of our own worthiness to exist."
Angry babby
The examples in Everyone Loves Blondes don't seem particularly bad to me, relying on specific instances of how real people have discussed and invoked the stereotype as well as providing statistics, though I could see it fitting Gossip And Stereotypes.
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
I'm helping!
Apocalypse Cult lists a few real life examples in its description, right before the "no real life examples allowed" warning... that's not how that works, right?
Wow, those things were literally added in the same edit. Okay.
I fix my examples all the time
The Lancer fits Narrative, Characterization, and Plot Tropes.
Graffiti Wall
I think Ludd was right, Heroic sacrifice, Urban legend love life, and the Lancer all are nrlep able tropes.
My God, What Have I Done? is Too Common. Everyone has actions that they regret, even shortly after doing so. Also counts as a Narrative Trope, as it involves characters reflecting back on their actions.
The Enforcer
My God, What Have I Done? is also a morality trope and related to the NRLEP as morality The Atoner.
they/them pronouns. Look at my Neocities.
Am I a weirdo?
I wouldn't consider it a morality trope. It's just stating that a person expresses a certain degree of regret for a certain action rather than making any moral judgement (for example, there's absolutely no morality component in a baseball umpire making a bad call and ruining what could have been a historic moment, but that's listed as an example on the page and it isn't misuse). The "too common" argument at least makes sense.
Bigotry will NEVER be welcome on TV Tropes.
My biggest concern with My God, What Have I Done? is the Gossip angle - while not exclusively, it is often a murder trope, there's a lot of talk about lurid murders there, and more importantly it's frequently a lead-in to Driven to Suicide, and we've decided that suicide tropes are Gossipy on principle. It's also a stock phrase, which are really always Too Common, and it's attracting anecdotes, general examples, weblinks, and natter.
Cooked to Death has a No Real Life Examples, Please! tag in the description, but isn't listed on any of the subpages.
I don't really see a reason to make it No Real Life to begin with. I doubt it's so particularly common that it would defeat the purpose, nor especially graphic. Examples like the brazen bull of antiquity would be worth mentioning.
Could have discussion/a vote to make it NREP instead of NRLEP. Historical examples for that won't be a problem, I think.
he/him
Given it's a subtrope of Cruel and Unusual Death, I'd suggest we standardise across that supertrope (not currently NRLEP?), and any other subtropes.
If so, I'd personally be voting for a long NREP rule - long enough to cut all the horror stories about people who may still have family reading TV Tropes, and probably long enough to drop serial killers etc. entirely. But that's probably one for the NREP thread.
I think Cooked to Death and also Cruel and Unusual Death are good candidates for NREP. It seems rude to talk about the recently-deceased in such lurid terms, and the more recent a death the more likely there is to be unreliable Gossip. I'd say 500 years is a solid time frame, that's long enough away that I would consider examples to be "historical" and precedes the concept of "serial killers" as they exist today by a few hundred years or so.
To change the subject, I've been trying to bring up Properly Paranoid since the Useful Notes - Conspiracy Theories subpages got axed. Although on the surface it looks like a Too Controversial trope (which I'm not saying it isn't, there certainly are some concerning ROCEJ examples on there), I think it's more so Narrative/Characterization - fiction is more likely to actively reward the paranoid for Chekovs Gun reasons, the real world doesn't work on Chekov's Gun rules. It's also Too Common - as the examples say, in career fields like Intelligence and safety inspection, it's your job to be paranoid. It's also related to several NRLEP tropes, like Cassandra Truth, Conspiracy Theorist, and Cloudcuckoolander. Lastly, it's attracting general examples and anecdotes.
The Enforcer
Am I a weirdo?
Okay, but are there any problems with the actual page? The only example right now seems to be Timothy Dexter (and let's just say that calling Timothy Dexter The Fool isn't exactly controversial). I'm tired of crownering pages just because they might theoretically become a problem at some point in the future.
Bigotry will NEVER be welcome on TV Tropes.
I will say The Fool is one of those universal archetype tropes (its page image is literally a tarot card) and I'm generally in favor of crownering those. I will say that the example on Timothy Dexter is bloated and nattery and definitely doesn't need a subpage all to itself - I'm curious if he qualifies for a Useful Note. But yeah, I would at least say it's a lower priority trope than tropes with more bloated and misused RL sections, like, oh, I don't know, Properly Paranoid.
Crown Description:
Vote up to either forbid all real life examples (No Real Life Examples Please) or forbid real life examples for specific subjects (Limited Real Life Examples Only); vote down to Keep Real Life Examples. To add a trope to a No Real Life Examples Please index or the Limited Real Life Examples Only index, its crowner option must meet the following criteria:- Stable 2:1 ratio needed for NRLEP or LRLEO
- Must have been up for a minimum of a week
- If the vote is exactly 2:1 or +/- 1 vote from that, give it a couple of extra days to see if more votes come in.
Everyone Loves Blondes: No. This isn't true. There's always that one person who hates Blondes.
"I just need one of you to come here to give your life to the sun god. It will be for the monkey city's glory."