Real Life section maintenance (New Crowner 19 Feb 2024)

can we figure out a way to keep "There's a skeleton inside you right now" on the page somewhere

As an example it's misuse, but a note in the description wouldn't be out of place in my mind.

The rest of the examples can just be cut as shoehorns.

The page already ends with the "and then a skeleton popped out meme", I think we're good.

Oh, and Re: Defiled Forever, I'd say that in practice it's mostly used as a rape trope (and also a smidge on the controversial side, see the NRLEP Honor Killing) so I'd put it in the NRLEP bin.

Re: Totally 18, on one hand it's a jailbait trope but it's also used for underage drinking (see the page image), so I'm not super sure about it? It might also be Too Common.

And Re: World War III, I suppose it's worth mentioning that some analysts consider other conflicts (like the Cold War and the War on Terror) to be the true World War III (and others even argue that conflicts prior to WWI warrant the "World War" label, pushing the other two later down the line), but I'd say that's a smidge beyond the scope of our site and I'd just link to Wikipedia there. I could also see a case to call as being too controversial.

Edited by MissConduct on Sep 23rd 2022 at 10:20:49 AM

For the same reason Forbidden Fruit is made NRLEP, Totally 18 can also be made such.

I think it's about time Fair for Its Day gets called.

Let the mods call the crowner, it's not going anywhere and it's not like the vote total will change significantly.

Re: Totally 18

It has a grand total on one entry, and a general one at that. I'll cut it for that reason, but there is no reason to crowner the trope.

Forbidden Fruit was NRLEP'd because the idea that people want what they can't have is so overwhelmingly common that the section could encompass entire worlds. Totally 18 isn't the same, and isn't problematic.

EDIT: However, the trope description of Totally 18 deals way more with the sexual component than is necessary IMO ... maybe someone would care to take it to the trope description thread.

Edited by laserviking42 on Sep 23rd 2022 at 10:23:29 AM

Calling Fair for Its Day for NRLEP.

Edit: Added it to Morality Tropes for now. It'll be one to put on the page for multiple categories once that's live.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Sep 23rd 2022 at 1:48:07 PM

Just keeping the thread updated, Sexual Harassment and Rape Tropes cleanup complete. The same note from Sex Tropes about NRLEP-Sex, Sexuality, and Rape Tropes has been added. Real Life sections removed from those that have them. Tropes added to the NRLEP-SSaRT list.

Some were listed as "Too Controversial", "Too Common", etc. or had No On Page Examples. I left those (figured as long as it was NRLEP one way or another, it didn't need to be adjusted).

But We Used a Condom! strikes me as a sexual trope that's currently not NRLEP. Thoughts?

The RL examples seem slightly more focused on the sexual aspect of the trope, also in general there's a fair bit of overlap between sex tropes and pregnancy tropes (obviously).

Edited by MissConduct on Sep 24th 2022 at 6:52:29 AM

A lot of the time, there's more emphasis placed on the pregnancy aspect of the trope, but I can see where you're coming from.

i immediately think But We Used a Condom! is almost certainly too common.

Yet it only has three examples, two of which I'm about to cut because one is general and the other is "inverted" (in reality a nattery shoehorn).

im gonna contest the third on the grounds that tropes can't be invoked in real life because trope invocation is a narrative device.

I'm curious - do we have enough room on the current crowner to add the rest of the discussed tropes that have been waiting a while now? Or would we rather wait until this one closes?

• Broken Ace - Gossip & Stereotypes.
• One Head Taller - Too Common, most examples are just celebrity couples and their heights.
• Huge Guy, Tiny Girl - As above, too common.
• Huge Girl, Tiny Guy- Same as the two above, too common.
• The Grinch - Misuse and Natter, the trope requires a person to not only hate Christmas, but actively try to ruin it for others.

And then there was also:

• Masculine Girl, Feminine Boy - brought up for being too common and a narrative trope a la Red Oni, Blue Oni, but hasn't gotten the necessary discussion yet.

• World War III - possibly too controversial and speculative of the future, but also hasn't gotten the necessary discussion.

• Totally 18 - sometimes a sex trope, probably too common, but doesn't seem to have consensus to add to the crowner yet.

• and a couple of more Sex tropes, including Wife Husbandry, Hello, Sailor!, Defiled Forever, and Horny Sailors, which might just get the blanket ban without needing the crowner?

(for the record, Re: Masculine Girl Feminine Boy, I think like a lot of the ensemble tropes it's purely a narrative trope and thus belongs on the crowner).

Edited by MissConduct on Sep 24th 2022 at 7:39:00 AM

I've brought up that list more than a few times.

Nobody really responded, so I let it drop. I think there should be at least a minimum of discussion on tropes instead of just compiling a list for the sake of filling out a crowner.

I strongly disagree, I think that this thread tends to hyperfixate on a few controversial tropes that get a lot of discussion and other peoples' valid points get ignored because we spend three pages on some tangent instead. I don't think "trope gets ignored because the rest of the thread was stuck on some other discourse" is a valid point for a trope to not be brought up again for the discussion it deserves.

I will say that I sometimes have a problem of not responding to points I agree with, since I don't feel like I can contribute much if I don't have a point to make other than "yup". But since it's an issue, I'll agree with crownering these things.

I didn't say it couldn't be brought up again, I said there was no discussion previously, so therefore I didn't push for a crowner.

Also I feel that throwing a ton of tropes at the wall hoping some will stick is a rather inefficient way of dealing with things Especially given how people continually bring up tropes with few or zero RL examples, but still want to crowner them in spite of the existing rules.

ETA: For example, you bring Totally 18 even though the single example was cut.

The Sexual Harassment and Rape Tropes have already been dealt with previously.

It's frustrating for me to keep seeing tropes that have discussed and cleaned, brought up yet again as if the thread isn't being paid attention to.

Edited by laserviking42 on Sep 24th 2022 at 7:58:57 AM

Also, I thought we don't discuss/crowner things in batches anymore?

True. We're trying to go one at a time now to encourage more discussion. I don't mind going over the ones we feel we need to talk about more.

And Laser's got a point; some of the problems were already resolved. I forgot about that when I responded, but as the one requesting we crowner them you probably should've considered that stuff, Miss Conduct.

Edited by WarJay77 on Sep 24th 2022 at 8:04:01 AM

Re: World War III

It has an "Other" folder, which is basically a RL folder. A grand total of four examples, of which I could see maybe cutting the second and fourth example (the weasel wording "People say" seems rather general to me).

Still frustrating as people don't even seem to look at the pages before trying to toss them on the crowner. This one isn't highly problematic, it's not too large, the examples aren't highly contentious or squicky, in short I don't see a problem ...

I'll bring these out again, as I feel a crowner may be in order:

• One Head Taller
• Huge Guy, Tiny Girl
• Huge Girl, Tiny Guy

The Real Life sections are merely celebrity couples with their heights. Obviously in fiction we use the tropes to convey certain ideas when there are couples with mis-matched heights, but real life is just .... real life, so it serves no real purpose.

This could either be Too Common (humans aren't all the exact same height) or Narrative (works use these tropes to showcase the more dominant partner). I'll leave this for discussion.

When I made my earlier post, these are the ones I was talking about when I said I agree but didn't have any substance to add.

I am good with crownering those three for the reasons listed above.