Real Life section maintenance (New Crowner 19 Feb 2024)

Some of the Sports entries on TearJerker.Other look Real Life-y.

Good.

Edited by Lymantria on Jan 9th 2019 at 7:13:42 AM

Tear Jerker is already NRLEP. You don't need to run real life examples through this thread before removing them. Anything directly about real people, such as celebrity deaths, is acceptable to remove.

Edit: Went ahead and took care of it myself. The animal section violated Example Indentation in Trope Lists by having a fifth-level bullet on top of violating NRLEP.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Jan 8th 2019 at 11:58:04 AM

The section part of this sentence in the real life section of Break Them by Talking sounds like it's calling Henry Murray evil:

So, I kind of broke the rules by adding The Antichrist to NRLEP index without discussing it here, but that's because the trope description specifically states that it should have no real life examples. If we are going to abide the rules by the letter, I can remove it and ask whether it should be added.

Edited by Tharkun140 on Jan 9th 2019 at 12:13:30 PM

Character Filibuster's section has some examples that belong to Windbag Politician instead, especially those on something like dictators.

Is Windbag Politician a subtrope of Character Filibuster, or do the requirements for how long they're talking differ?

Nice to the Waiter

I can't decide if it just needs pruning, or if we should get rid of it.

There is substantial amount of natter. It feels like a list of celebrities who either do or do not treat their staff or random waiters or police officers nicely. Gossip (things that happened once — gee, everybody has a bad hair day sometimes). Also there are some "aversions" and "inversions" and "sort-of-inversions" and general examples with speculation if people are really this nice or if they want something back from you.

I don't like it very much. Cut real life examples?

I think all of that is gossip or generic "examples". Several examples also use potholes disallowed for real people.

It's also about using a method to judge people morally, which is more of a reason to disallow RL examples than the page having bad examples.

Here are some Character Filibuster examples that should belong to Windbag Politician:

• Dictators. Think Fidel Castro.
  • Extending on that - virtually any politician, really. Although Fiddy probably does hold a record or two, what with that notorious seven-hour speech.
  • Che Guevara's own account of meeting Fidel Castro for the first time involves Che's then-girlfriend asking him an off-the-cuff question and Fidel's answer taking four hours.
• Hugo Chavez was known for making seven hour speeches fairly often. Chavez not only had his own talk show, but he also randomly interrupted other radio programs to broadcast his views.
• There's also Muammar Gaddafi's speech at the United Nations. It went on for over 90 minutes and his translator collapsed from the strain of translating the ramblings.
• While he was running for Parliament, French-born English writer Hilaire Belloc was giving a speech, when a heckler called out, "Who won Waterloo?" Belloc, a military historian among other things, proceeded to give him a rundown of the precise role played by each of the commanders on the winning side. Fair to bet that particular heckler ended up wishing he hadn't opened his mouth.
• Filibustering is a well known parliamentary method used as far back as Ancient Rome. In an attempt to delay the passing of a piece of legislature a representative gives a speech that goes on... and on... and on...

Some of the CF examples still look like that they have natter.

Some of those examples are pretty bad, especially the general ones, which break our rules anyway.

Should a new crowner be made, now that crowners are working again?

Shouldn't Separated by a Common Language be added to the main NRLEP page? The mainspace page for that trope explicitly states that real-life examples aren't allowed. It does state that real-life examples can be included on the Useful Notes page... matter of fact, I'm the troper who added the blurb about the Notes page following a "No Fictional Examples, Please!" policy.

If SBACL is added to the NRLEP page, the caveat regarding its Useful Notes page should also be included in the list, IMHO.

While we're at it... are there any other pages on this wiki that accept ONLY real-life examples?

I think that if there's no problem as it is, there's no need to do anything about it.

Agreed. One page is for in-universe events related to dialectal differences, and the Useful Notes page is for how differences between dialects affect real life communication.

Sleep Deprivation Punishment just got launched.

There appeared some RL examples in the TLP phase. I postponed adding them, because frankly, I feel squeamish about them. It's after all a trope about torturing people with lack of sleep.

Invading because I also agreed with the lack of RL examples on the draft.

I agree with this being NRLEP. I'm not that familiar with TLP, but are TLP launches eligible for being classified as IUEO and/or NRLEP immediately upon launch? If not, I think that would be a good idea, especially with tropes like this that could potentially end up covering controversial subjects if real life examples are allowed.

Apparently, because I've done it before on launches like Forbidden Holiday, Trophy Child and Cult Defector.

Actually I don't know. I think if enough people agree on the rule during the trope launch phase, it gets written in the description. Here it was not so clear — I remember at least two people adding RL examples.

However, three people might be probably good enough.

Edited by XFllo on Feb 12th 2019 at 10:21:11 AM

Concurring with making Sleep Deprivation Punishment NRLEP.

I've added it on the index.

Edited by XFllo on Feb 12th 2019 at 11:11:15 AM

Late to the party here, but I don't see why it needs to be added. Part of the point of having real life examples is to understand how plausible they are or where the trope comes from, and this is a trope that is very plausible and sadly common. A lot of the examples are based on a true story or at least on real conflicts and political events anyway.

I guess I don't really see how real life examples in this case would be flame-bait, or particularly squicky (it's hard to get really graphic when discussing sleep deprivation). Other torture tropes (such as Electric Torture, which is more explicit) have real life examples.

I guess in general I'm more inclined to be reactive here, and only ban real life examples if there's a demonstrated problem, or the page belongs to a category of pages that are a demonstrated problem, such as Sex Tropes.

Also, according to the crowner rules, you need 10 votes to add a trope to the list. 3:3 doesn't cut it (I'm counting the TLP people here).

Edited by naturalironist on Feb 12th 2019 at 7:05:29 AM

'Tis true that I was perhaps too eager. It should probably be removed from the index and wait for more votes. I'm on my phone now so I can't do it myself now. But this crowner seems to be stalled — no items were added to be voted on for a long time.

Another thing about those examples is that they were not particularly informative or well-written. A bunch of them were barely half-context examples (agency x used in conflict y).

I also think torture tropes should be all NRLEP in general, but that might be just me.

What about BittersweetEnding.Real Life? First, it's a narrative trope that doesn't occur in real life. Second, the page itself actually states that "any war" or "any disaster" where there were some survivors qualifies, making it too common to trope as well.

Narrative trope, as you mentioned. I'd put it on NRLEP list.