Needs Help: Fanservice

Fanservice has the following problems:

• Many of the subpages make No Lewdness No Prudishness grit its teeth. Some of the examples sound too lewd and too fetish-y.
• The page itself says: "examples with lots of fanservice". I don't see the point of just cataloguing shows with lots of fanservice.
• With so many subtropes, most forms of fanservice can be sorted there.

Does fanservice need examples? What do you think?

Nah. Move 'em to the subtropes is what I would think here.

Probably best course of action. Just be sure to put the "Please list examples on appropriate subtrope" message up.

Yeah, considering subtropes lovingly describe every example, there's not much reason for putting examples in the main fanservice page. Other than, well, people like reading them.

Yep, supertrope as an index seems like the way to go.

Is there an appropriate place for instances of non-sexual fanservice? In its original form, the term meant any inclusion in the story that fed into the author's major preferences, regardless of whether it was due to massive fandom of said preference or if it was sexual. The definition has drifted a bit, but things like the Batman references in I"s are still generally referred to as Fanservice (although these days, usually with the qualifier "non-sexual" beforehand).

edited 19th Apr '12 8:41:55 PM by 32_Footsteps

Well, all those non-porn porn tropes are fanservice tropes: Scenery Porn, Gun Porn, Costume Porn, etc.

Also Foot Focus, Food Porn, and some instances of things like Cool Car, Cool Bike, Cool Ship, Cool Plane, Cool Horse (etc.), Stuff Blowing Up, Tank Goodness, Gorgeous Period Dress, other such subtropes of things listed above... it's quite a list. In addition, I would contend that the author's fondness for the topic on display is less important than the audience's.

Also of some concern is the fact that there's almost certainly some NSFW images floating around these pages.

Certainly, if by "floating around these pages" you mean "located elsewhere and reachable via big warning/disclaimer page from these pages". I was under the impression that the new outbound link procedure was intended to address such concerns.

Any other thoughts? I'm fine with moving examples into subtropes.

I'd be more concerned about the fact that the wiki has 87 pages and 3 sub-indexes on Fanservice than on the precise location of the examples. Shuffling around the locations of the "here are shows with lots of fanservice" catalogue doesn't seem like it solves the underlying problem, and as noted above, a lot of these pages seem really lewd and fetishy.

If nothing else, while we're on the subject of splitting up the Fanservice page examples, I suppose I may as well mention that Ms. Fanservice and Mr. Fanservice (and probably several other of the listed trope pages on the index) deserve exactly the same treatment for exactly the same reasons.

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. The lewdness problem is in the process of being taken care of, and no one will move lewd examples without making them acceptable first.

So you think 87 pages is too many to properly categorize the variety among these topics? Perhaps the category could benefit from the attention of some lumpers, but that's normally undertaken one trope at a time.

It's more than having a list of 87 different ways shows can try to turn viewers on - each of which has its own giant Examples list - doesn't send a good message about the wiki's direction, purpose, or areas of interest. In theory, this is a site for literary analysis, but works like The Iceman Cometh and major literary schools like Postcolonialism are entirely absent whereas everything remotely sexy is meticulously cataloged, which really makes us look quite bad. It makes the Wiki look creepy and leering, and it's not clear what the benefit really is - do we really need to list in detail every single Shower Scene ever to appear, and to do so separately from other forms of fanservice like Pool Scene, Public Bathhouse Scene, and Furo Scene that have much the same effect? It doesn't really seem to do much beyond damaging the site's reputation and attracting a worse userbase. Not to the same extent as pedoshit, obviously - but it's still hardly a good direction for a site that wants to call itself "academic". Basically, the different particular instances of fanservice don't really seem worth writing about, and they make us look like creepers.

Part of it is a side-effect of the neutrality rule. Back when negativity was allowed, trope pages like Three Minutes of Writhing were good because they were able to snark at shallow and sexist trends in the media. But once they were scrubbed clean of ever saying anything bad about anything, that benefit was removed - so we were just left with an uncomfortable list of things someone on the internet found sexy and decided was worth writing about.

edited 22nd Apr '12 3:52:04 AM by ALibrarianofBabel

Let's not derail in content policy, please.

We've had this discussion before. The last time somneone tried to complain about the large amount of fanservice tropes, the thread was locked. So, we will not derail into that.

I agree, provided those subtropes ARE LISTED on Fanservice page as an index. Examples go to respective tropes while Fanservice remains as name to listr on the work page. and for explanation.

Wasn't the Fetish Fuel Wiki created just for content that tittilates viewers?

No, that was for Fetish Fuel and not for Fanservice.

Question: Are catalogued as fan-service only the things that are sexually tintillating? Because I have heard other thingies mentioned as fan service. Like the briefly and useless to the plot appearance of a character from another show, or one of the protagonists cosplaying as a character of another show. On the other side, how do you classify series like Agent Aika or Najika Blitz Tactics that costantly showing of the gracies of the protagonists, just few steps from the hentai zone?

The way we have defined it right now it is revealing yada.

Other stuff is currently in the Scenery Porn and such tropes, The YMMV stuff is suppose to be Pandering to the Base but that needs work.

edited 23rd Apr '12 6:13:58 AM by Raso

"Fanservice" means many things outside the wiki, but Fanservice the trope is the "gratuitous display of characters in skimpy clothing, or none at all, under the assumption that it will attract or reward viewers."

It's not even all titillating material - much of that falls under Fetish Fuel, which we stopped compiling.

Calling crowner.

Looks done. Locky-lock time.