Inspired by this thread
, I've noticed that this wiki doesn't have a dedicated cleanup thread for negativity.
As we all know, Complaining About Shows You Don't Like, Creator Bashing and other negativity isn't desired on the wiki, except in a few selected areas like reviews and several Darth Wiki pages (and even then, with limitations). And yet, it's one of the most common sins wiki contributors can make.
So, if you find a page, TLP or discussion whose content seems like a straight-up insult or any other bitching - including complainy soapboxing -, you might ask here for help with removing said content.
The sandbox for this project is located at Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining.
Edited by MacronNotes on Apr 27th 2022 at 5:36:47 AM
- Its director himself, Rian Johnson. A popular meme mocking his infamous writing-style is "If Rian Johnson Directed [...]" - where an iconic part from another film abruptly ends in an absurd Anti-Climax/Shocking Swerve.
I find it suspect this is applied to a real life person. And this trope requires it explain why it is an unfair exaggeration. Cut or what?
Redmess
No troping real life people. Cut.
Optimism is a duty.
I'm Sad Frogerson.
I brought up Memetic Loser on the Real Life section maintenance thread. I got some feedback sharing my concerns about including real life figures as Memetic Losers, but I don't think it's got enough votes on the crowner for a consensus to be reached yet.
But yeah, this is one of the entries that caused me to bring it up in the first place. I would have assumed the Rian Johnson bashing would've stopped after Knives Out was released to wide acclaim, but I guess some people can't get over their hate for The Last Jedi.
Redmess
Yeah, this is basically just asking for flame bait and bashing. It should be cut.
Just because it is a meme elsewhere does not mean we need to indulge them. We are not here to collect memes, after all.
Optimism is a duty.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Cut.
On that matter, thoughts on adding this to this to Square Peg, Round Trope to curb Memetic Loser complaining?
- Memetic Loser is often misapplied to who or what is shown, portrayed as, or are objectively (The Alleged Car, Tier Induced Scrappy) ineffectual or when their intended effectuality is an Informed Attribute. All examples must explain why the loser reputation, intentional or otherwise, is unfairly exaggerated.
Edited by Ferot_Dreadnaught on Mar 10th 2020 at 11:30:54 AM
Redmess
Memetic Loser is a trope about characters, so it should have No Real Life Examples, Please! applied to it.
Edited by Redmess on Mar 10th 2020 at 7:36:15 PM
Optimism is a duty.
I've also seen Memetic Loser be used as a substitute for The Scrappy but with fewer restrictions. At the very least, it shouldn't allow real-life examples because it just leads to bashing on real people and Creator Bashing like the aforementioned Rian Johnson example.
Super Mario Odyssey has a lot of complaining under They Wasted a Perfectly Good Plot and They Wasted a Perfectly Good Character.
- Madame Broode. She's only encountered twice in the entire game, and is never seen again after her second defeat, not even in the dark side of the moon. You would think that the boss of the Broodals would not only get at least one more fight, but also receive some more characterization.
- Tiara, Cappy's sister. You'd think they'd give her the same powers as him and have her play an interesting role in the story, such as letting Peach use the Capture ability, perhaps even as a way to make Peach an unlockable player character. Sadly, all she does is be yet another Damsel in Distress in a franchise that overuses the trope, and has the underwhelming role of joining Peach when she travels the kingdoms without becoming playable in the post-game. You don't even see much of the relationship between her and Cappy.
- Luigi. Many of his fans were displeased that this gigantic Mario release left out the green guy initially, though whether his status as a host of a fun post-game minigame makes up for this (as opposed to having him fully playable) is up to debate.
- The Ruined Dragon. The fact that you have to specifically remove its helmet to get at its weak point makes it seem as if it would be something you could capture, and taking control of a giant, lightning-breathing dragon seems like exactly the kind of Crazy Awesome thing this game would let you do, but once you defeat it, it just...sits there.
- The 8-Bit Mario costume is simply an unmoving 3-D-rendered Mario "jumping" sprite that simply bobbles around in a static pose as the player moves around. Players expecting to be able to play as a fully animated 3-D Mario sprite in Odyssey were sorely disappointed, and the fact that it's one of two costumes with the most expensive price costume in the game doesn't help matters.
- Believe it or not, the wedding itself. When we finally get to see the wedding in the final stage of the game, it's mostly just Bowser trying to put a humongous ring on Peach that won't fit her finger at all, as well as the noticeable lack of a minister. For that matter, there's no indication that Bowser has any way of making her say "I do" at all. Previous "Bowser tries to marry Peach" stories throughout Mario-related media had her either under blackmail or hypnosis, setting more urgency to the situation. With how much resistance Peach was clearly putting in the posters Bowser advertises everywhere, you'd think Bowser would have a Love Potion or something on standby. Peach normally doesn't handle herself well when she's been abducted, but seeing as in this story she keeps on standing around on Bowser's sail barge looking docile and not even attempting to escape even when there are plenty of opportunities (such as when Bowser's attention is caught up in fighting Mario), you would think that Bowser had to have put some sort of spell on her to make her shut down like that, but no such explanation is ever provided in-story. Another thing to note is that Bowser somehow forced all of the Kingdoms' citizens that Mario interacted with earlier to be his attendees, when his own minions would have made more sense and could have served as enemies in the final level. How Bowser even forced this mass compliance is another mystery, as one would think that him littering his posters advertising his wedding all over different kingdoms would be met with more resistance from the locals. Instead, Mario is as per usual on his own with only a few allies.
- Peach denying the chance to marry Mario as well, as this could have been an opportunity to explore Mario and Peach's relationship past it being simply the implied romance it's always been.
- The chance to visit some older pre-existing locales like Isle Delfino or Sarasaland is completely wasted. Early promotional images of the world map even showed Isle Delfino off to the southwest of the Mushroom Kingdom, but it's absent in the final game.
- Both the "boss-only" levels in the game (Cloud Kingdom and Ruined Kingdom) are among the most visually interesting ones in the whole game. Too bad they're not as full-fledged and explorative as the other levels.
- Returning from Super Mario 64 is the Metal Costume. Unfortunately, it's just an alternate costume with none of the functionality of the original, meaning Mario can't walk underwater with it. The same thing also applies to the Gold Mario costume from New Super Mario Bros. 2. In fact, several costumes could have had fun effects, but all of them are purely aesthetic and only affect Mario's idle animations at most.
- The Brooklyn Bridge equivalent in New Donk City is inaccessible.
- Some fans wish Bowser had teamed up with a Bonneter so he could have used capturing powers in some creative and interesting boss battles. Even worse, this was actually planned at one stage in the game's development, and Bowser would have turned his cap on Peach!"
Edited by lalalei2001 on Mar 11th 2020 at 9:18:35 AM
The Protomen enhanced my life.
I'm going to once again raise the question of whether those "tropes" are even tropeworthy, given the apparent ability of people to be dissatisfied with any plot...
Technically they're Audience Reactions. XD
The Protomen enhanced my life.
and I thought the two reactions were limited to low relative screentime instead of "I wished X happened instead of Z". The tropes' current titles are completely unhelpful in that respect.
On this criterion, delete the bullet points about the Ruined Dragon, 8-bit Mario, Wedding, Isle Delfino, Bowser capturing, and anything related to the cosmetic outfits. Keep everything else.
Edited by Albert3105 on Mar 11th 2020 at 12:07:12 PM
Done!
Per Memetic Loser cleanup, I looked over MemeticLoser.Death Battle and found all examples are misuse describing objective losses (it's determined through analysis so it's not a case of their fan reputations effecting the results) as opposed to how they're loser reputations are exaggerated by fans (save maybe Goku as it notes he only losses due to being set against much more powerful foes). Starscream's entry notes he's "less a Memetic Loser and more... just a loser, period", not an example then. Those results might go better under how it effect their reputation in their home series. What to do?
There's a Memetic X Cleanup, but it's slow and has yet to respond to my last inquiry. So I'm asking here first.
The Values Resonance section on Team America: World Police doesn't entirely seem to be neutral, given that it takes early 2000s criticism of the War on Terror and extrapolates it to praise/criticize more controversial recent subject matter (American intervention against ISIS, leftist policy on Venezuela). Should it be removed?
- Values Resonance:
- The quick American-led response to the Islamic State in Syria and Iraq, crushing an unambiguously evil terrorist army / rogue state quickly and cheaply with overwhelming domestic support and relatively few civilian casualties, puts some more weight behind the metaphorical "Dicks" in Gary's speech at the end (note that the film came out just after the invasion of Iraq, where the "Dicks" had definitely fucked too much, and fucked where it wasn't appropriate).
- The other side of his speech, about how "pussies can sometimes become so full of shit that they become assholes themselves" is definitely more relevant now than it was in 2004 (where the "pussies" were pretty much in the right), given the recent fate of Venezuelanote and the implicit support it received from leftist icons in the west like Jeremy Corbyn, despite the overwhelming evidence that it had become an economic basket-case and mass-murdering authoritarian dictatorship. Furthermore, the plot of Film Actor's Guild working with Kim Jong-Il began to resonate with the post-2008 rising superpowers—such as China and Russia—attempting to exploit the latter's critique of American hegemony in international politics to justify their foreign policy agendas without regards to their questionable ethics or another hegemonic aggressor intends to meddle in other countries' affairs. Parker and Stone would actually bring back this concept in 2019 with the 23rd season of South Park.
- For that matter, the Film Actor's Guild plot has become this in recent years. Many have pointed out how it foreshadowed the increasing involvement of celebrities in politics during The New '10s and the backlash it has received by working class Americans.
- The quick American-led response to the Islamic State in Syria
Edited by geekgecko on Mar 14th 2020 at 6:32:30 AM
Also, there's this in Monty Python's The Meaning of Life
- Hilarious in Hindsight
- Some contemporary viewers joke that this film predicted the rise of so-called "SJW's."
- A man being sentenced to death for making sexist jokes, and executed by being hounded to death by naked women brings to mind a story about a man nearly being lynched because he flashed a Slut Walk.
- At the end of Birth part 1, the mother asks "Is it a boy or girl?" and the obstercian responds that it's too early to start enforcing gender roles.
- Some contemporary viewers joke that this film predicted the rise of so-called "SJW's."
If nothing else that's misuse of Hilarious in Hindsight, as the movie and the events described are entirely unrelated.
The Merry Monarch of Darkness
I feel like some of the entries on Law & Order: Special Victims Unit need a scrubbing. This show is, uhh, fairly notorious for a big Designated Hero problem, and I've noticed it's kind of a punching bag on this site with entires being worded to paint the heroes as worse and the villains as better than they actually are. In particular I'm wondering about the "pedophile advocate" under Strawman Has a Point, the guy that slept with his own (of-age) daughter under Unintentionally Sympathetic, and especially the victim described as a "media whore" (very interesting word choice there...) under Unintentionally Unsympathetic.
The pig of Hufflepuff pulsed like a large bullfrog. Dumbledore smiled at it, and placed his hand on its head: "You are Hagrid now."
Ew. Please remove all those, first and formost.
Jawbreakers on sale for 99¢
The Merry Monarch of Darkness
Done. Feel free to point out any others that seem iffy too, especially, of course, if you've seen the episodes yourself.
Edited by HamburgerTime on Mar 15th 2020 at 9:24:17 AM
The pig of Hufflepuff pulsed like a large bullfrog. Dumbledore smiled at it, and placed his hand on its head: "You are Hagrid now."
Removed the Monty Python examples, what about the stuff from the Team America World Police page?
YMMV.The Legend Of Zelda has this example:
" Scapegoat Creator: For a time, roughly between Ocarina of Time and Skyward Sword, a lot of fans used to blame Eiji Aonuma, the current main producer of the series, of every single thing that was supposedly wrong with the series. Of course, when something did go right for them, then they praise Miyamoto for it. However, since Miyamoto's own creative prowess started to seemingly wane during the 2010s, fans have started to see Aonuma in a better light, and now is largely considered a worthy heir of the series."
Edited by lalalei2001 on Mar 16th 2020 at 4:43:48 AM
The Protomen enhanced my life.
Per this I intend to cut list MemeticLoser.Death Battle as when I asked elsewhere everyone who replied agreed it should be cut as all examples are misuse]]. I will cut list it on the 19th per Three-Day Rule. Any objections?
I can chase the wind, I can race the rain
Tropineasily, a a name I think I've seen on Ask The Tropers several times for some questionable edits, just added an entry to Snark Bait about Riverdale that seems a bit too complainy for me even by that page's standards. Is it just me? I'm not very familiar with the show but I still see Twitter fangirls, it can't be that bad.
Edited by AlmightyKingPrawn on Mar 17th 2020 at 3:15:29 PM
She/her. Profile pic is by Richard Michael Gomez @StarmansArt. Please watch Fraggle Rock: Back to the Rock. https://youtu.be/Vm92JNgPbqk
- Shallow Parody: "Teen Titans Roar", the crossover with Teen Titans Go!, is centered around making fun of the show's critics and the vocal fans of previous versions of the show as whiny losers who hate the show for no reason and put their effort into the wrong things. It ends with Lion-O of the original series coming down from the cartoon afterlife to tell the cast of Thundercats Roar that they are a worthy successor and that anyone who disagrees is "a poop mouth with poop opinions" and the camera cutting to a nearby cave where 1985 Snarf and 2011 Lion-O are watching, with Snarf complaining nobody cares about either of them.
If anything, this shouldn't be on Roar's YMMV page since it's a Teen Titans Go episode.
Jawbreakers on sale for 99¢
Edited by Berrenta on Mar 10th 2020 at 10:05:50 AM
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