Removing complaining, bashing and other negativity from the wiki

At the very least, there should be no good reason for them to not realize going in that this action will almost certainly kill them.

I removed the bolded sentence in this post from the Recycled Trailer Music page:

• The trailer for The Wild Thornberrys movie used the theme from Dinosaur. Quite fair, really, since the music was one of the only things about Dinosaur to be particularly good.

There was also this on the Award-Bait Song page:

• Tom and Jerry: The Movie has "Do I Miss You?" which is on par with the rest of the film (i.e., not good). "All in How Much We Give" is a closer example of this, and significantly better.

I changed that last paragraph to this:

• Tom and Jerry: The Movie has "Do I Miss You?" and "All in How Much We Give", the latter of which is a closer example of this.

The links will have to be updated later.

I have also noticed some negativity on the Truck Driver's Gear Change page, including describing the page quote as "a conversation on Facebook parodying one of the worst offenders", as well as saying "Quite a lot of Christian music falls victim to this," despite saying at the end of the latter post that Tropes Are Not Bad. What should be done with these things?

Edited by MisterToodleoo on Jul 22nd 2020 at 12:22:58 PM

Fridge.Star Trek Voyager has an entry that describes Neelix as "overly" cheerful, "way too" optimistic, "annoying", and "seems more suited for a PBS kid's show than this series", which I think is a bit complainy.

That is definitely complaining.

Not sure exactly where else to put this, but ScrappyMechanic.Pokemon feels extremely long. Granted, the franchise is a Long Runner with a lot of different mechanics, but there's very likely some bits that don't fit here. For example, some examples complain about the lack of a favorable mechanic (such as a lack of a way to transfer Pokémon between generations), which I don't think fits the trope and is more They Changed It, Now It Sucks!. ScrappyMechanic.Pokemon Go is very similar (especially with the "lack of a mechanic" examples) and also outdated in a few parts now that the game has been updated in the past few years.

Also curious if this entry on YMMV.The Nostalgia Critic is too complainy about the Mid-Review Sketch Show genre. It's true that the style has fallen out of favor, but this feels a bit like a rant about the genre and misses the point of the trope (the work looks worse in retrospect less because it is bad, but because it's been overdone). Note that the example wasn't this long and negative before.

• Seinfeld Is Unfunny:
  • While online reviews have been around almost as long as the 'net itself, the half review/half comedy skit format was really his own. In the wake of his success, others wishing to break into web entertainment and share their passionate views on some piece of pop culture used him as an archetype and soon YouTube was flooded with amateur critics over-reacting to entertainment they disliked. By the end of the decade, this style was seen as hyperbolic, amateurish and even outright nasty, and largely perpetuated by pseudo-intellectuals cramming their opinions about pop culture down others' throats, which is what the Critic eventually came to be seen as by retroactive viewers who began criticizing his lack of actual good-faith critique and relying more on reactions than jokes and who's videos' "plots" relied entirely on whether or not your agreed with his opinion. The rising trend of well-respected video essays, which phased out the "skit" part for straightforward tongue-in-cheek humor, only made it look worse.

Edited by mightymewtron on Jul 25th 2020 at 9:45:47 AM

Thoughts on this from CinemaSins:

• Parody Retcon: A common response to criticism is "it's satire" and claiming Jeremy is more of a character representing online critics who get anal-retentive over small details. This generally only comes up when they're called out for getting something wrong, while at all other points the complaints they make are their genuine views, mistakes and all, as evidenced in videos on Jeremy's personal channel. Jeremy also acknowledges mistakes, something he wouldn't need to do while in-character, and contradicts himself in several interviews, on Reddit and in his rant on a live-action remake of Winnie the Pooh in a Dear Hollywood video where he states the channel is not satire and should be taken seriously, which really reinforces the notion the "it's satire" and "he's playing a character" claims are just attempts at deflecting legitimate criticisms.

While much of that may be true, none of it falls under the definition of Parody Retcon and it comes across as complaining. Delete it.

So I found these entries on The Ultimate Enemy and their so damn long and come off so weirdly confusionaly writtne that im asking if their even examples.

• They Wasted a Perfectly Good Character/They Wasted a Perfectly Good Plot: Dark Danny can be taken this way to a degree. While he's perfectly enjoyable and he doesn't ruin the movie, if you think about it, the fact that he's half Vlad doesn't really influence his character other than his design and the fact that he's evil. Vlad is a character who's very smart and cunning when the writers use him effectively, even in the episodes from before it in production order rather than aired order. If the writers wanted to, they could've had him use a more effective plan of influencing the future from behind the scenes, such as influencing the being that set his future in motion to do the things he did in the past and having him be the reason why that being did it, then Clockwork helps Danny change the future by defeating said being, then his future self. This would certainly help with what's described in the What An Idiot section below, and possibly make for a more entertaining plot that makes more sense. Though it could just be Hand Waved that Dark Danny absorbed Vlad Masters' malice but not necessarily his intelligence.
  • To a much lesser extent, Dark Danny hints a few times that in some of his "weakest moments" he feels at least a little fond of his old memories of his friends and sister, before doubling down on being a Card-Carrying Villain bent on enforcing a Stable Time Loop. He also has to pretend to be the real Danny on test day, but the episode speeds through this to get to the penultimate test. It would be interesting if the episode expanded on those "weak moments," when Dark Danny is forced to pretend to care about his friends and family for a little longer, only to start to remember how much he once cared about them and starts to enjoy being with them again. And/or for his friends and sister tried to appeal to his lost humanity, leading to Dark Danny invoking a My God, What Have I Done? or to split him from Vlad Masters' evil ghost half (the Ghost Catcher has been established to split Danny from his ghost half in a previous episode...). It would also work with the episode's theme of "The Future is Not Set In Stone" by showing that it's never too late to make up for your mistakes or improve your future, rather than "Avoid this one specific event that'll destroy your entire future, because once you cross that line, there's no going back."

• What An Idiot: Dark Danny can be seen as this due to one important question; Why would Danny still go to Vlad's and set forth the same events that resulted in his creation after this ordeal? Yeah, the more you think about him directly influencing the past like he does in this movie, the more you realize that he didn't think the plan all the way through. This is bolstered by the fact that, originally, it wasn't him that caused the future to happen, but someone just as powerful, whom we never see because they never show that being. In reality, if he wanted his future to be secured, he should've influenced the future from behind the scenes, with influencing the being who set his future in motion the first time into doing what he did already. At least then, he'd be keeping the timeline most intact. Considering he's half Vlad, that'd make a great degree of sense too. But, in all actuality, Danny would've most likely went to Vlad's to use his ghost portal to go and find Clockwork to go back and fix the timeline, had Clockwork not do that himself. Think about this for a second, it'd make more sense for Danny to make that future not happen after this sequence of events than to, thanks to his knowledge of the future. Admittedly, Dark Danny doesn't know Danny knows the exact circumstances as to how he came to be, but his blatant screwing of the timeline is still this trope. Though it could also just be a case of The Dark Side Will Make You Forget and Evil Cannot Comprehend Good.

That What An Idiot thing needs to be gotten rid of, pronto.

Edited by Crossover-Enthusiast on Jul 26th 2020 at 10:33:19 AM

And the first example is trope slashing.

I think I’ve found a Kyle hater on YMMV.South Park S 12 E 1 Tonsil Trouble.

• Moral Event Horizon: While Kyle has every right to hate Cartman, laughing at him upon discovering that he has AIDS shows that he's Not So Different and hypocritical to him. On the other hand, Cartman crosses the line himself when he deliberately infects Kyle with AIDS as he slept simply because Kyle laughed at the irony of Cartman having AIDS given his past actions, including wishing AIDS on Kyle. In the end, neither boy has the higher moral ground.

Because laughing about the asshole antisemite having AIDS is just as bad as infecting someone with AIDS. It's South Park, that is far from the worst thing someone could do.

It's also misuse of MEH since Kyle is portrayed as sympathetic later (and Cartman's MEH is the Scott Tenorman incident- he's already far past the point of no return by this season).

Thirded, deleting and leaving a link to this thread in the edit reason.

How bad is the compalaining on Series.Thirteen Reasons Why? I recently found out about the show's negative reception because of how it treats subjects such as suicide and rape and it sounds like it could be pretty bad, ROCEJ violating even.

I don't know about the main page, but the YMMV page could definitely use a once-over.

Prinzenick just added this to Trivia.The Secret Of NIMH.

• Creator Backlash: One of the films animators, Ken Cope, felt that the film put too much emphasis on polished animation and suffered from a lousy story.
  "What can you say about a movie in which the emotional climax is a brick house rising up out of the mud with a spooge a palooza SFX fireworks display, because Rats took drugs that made them mystically intelligent? Meanwhile, all animals already talk, why shouldn't the Owl eat the mouse? Oh, and let's let drugs in paper survive immersion in water. Looked real purty. Story sucked."

On one hand, they DO provide a source in the edit reason for the quote, but on the other hand, Prinzenick has shown multiple times to have a negative vendetta against Don Bluth (just look at a lot of the stuff they put in Bluth's quote page).

On a related note regarding Cinema Sins and Parody Retcon, here’s the entry on the trope page:

• The creators of CinemaSins have usually responded to critique of their videos by claiming that they're intended to be satirical, and that the narrator of the series is more of a "character" who represents anal-retentive Caustic Critics on the Internet. The problem is that while this is sometimes true, and many "sins" are clearly jokes that are occasionally made at the "character"'s expense, they also like to use this excuse where it doesn't fit, such as where (a) the "sin" is factually incorrect; (b) the "sin" is the same as the creator's personal view (which we know from places like Jeremy's personal review channel) and thus can't be attributed to a "character"; and (c) the creators contradict themselves and claim that the channel isn't satire and should be taken seriously.

Maybe if we move the source for the quote into the entry, then axe the quote itself (or paraphrase it).

My immediate thought is why wasn't that source included with the entry?

Would it be worth paging Prinzenick to ask them directly about it?

When I tried to follow Prinzenick's link, I got a "content not found" error message.

Seems like there was recently a massive passive-aggressive (a term which I use loosely) on YMMV.Pokemon Sword And Shield. All from a single user, too. I'd deal with it myself, but I'm stuck without wifi and so can only use my phone.

Not just passive aggressive, but natter-y passive aggressiveness at that. Plus it's kind of redundant since the entries already imply that not every Pokemon will still be available, no need to reinforce it in every entry just to show how pissed off you are about it.

yeesh, please revert that. As someone who had a horde of sarcastic You Tube commenters (including a medium size Youtuber with 100k subs) tell me to kill myself over still liking Swsh, I feel genuinely suicidal and triggered.

The user who messed with the YMMV for Swsh even added the word "unfortunate" to a MAIN PAGE description of moves that got cut, though fortunately Wingedcatgirl reverted it.