[screaming in the distance]
So the thread is finally open! I might well as try to summary this. There's 65 wicks due to the way I did things (not including the YMMV wick as it's part of Alternate Character Interpretation bullet list).
- No. 1: 6/65 + 7/65 = 13/65 (20%)
- No. 2: 20/65 + 8/65 = 28/65 (~43.08%)
- Mixed: 3/65 (~4.61%)
- Unclear: 14/65 (~21.54%)
- Misused: 2/65 (~3.08%)
- No context: 4/65 (~6.15%)
- Null: 1/65 (~1.54%)
You can clearly see how it's split among these two (or sometimes just plain misused).
edited 30th May '16 1:54:13 AM by PinkCelebi
"Screw it, I AM going to enjoy this game!"
This trope has been bugging me for a while. I agree completely with the problem you noted. The name lends itself to the idea that parents are falliable three-dimensional humans, which is a rare viewpoint in media. But the description leans toward parental neglect or abandonment.
I think the biggest question your wickcheck will help answer is whether splitting, renaming, or rewriting is the best option. If most examples use the neglect definition, then the parents as people examples might be split off into a new trope.
Ok yeah this trope is all over the place, from Not So Perfect Parents to Parental Neglect to Breaking The Parental Stereotypes.
Umm I would say split it up to focus on the different aspects.
[screaming in the distance]
I'd say split the trope. It's probably the best option.
We need more people to voice their opinion here, though.
edited 30th May '16 10:59:56 AM by PinkCelebi
"Screw it, I AM going to enjoy this game!"
Do we have a trope for Practically Perfect Parentage? That seems like a needed trope here too.
This doesn't seem like a trope to me; parents are people just like anyone else. A trope to describe this is just People Sit On Chairs.
In a lot of works parents only exist as tools or obstacles and such. Or perfect with no problems and/or make perfect decisions aka Parent ex Machina. Portraying them as actual flawed people in someway tends to be pretty special especially in works where kids are the POV Character.
The problem is its coming at it from way too many angles.
- Not Perfect But Well Meaning Parents, parents who are doing their best but are flawed in one way or another. The most common type of this in media is a Single Working Parent who probably works 2 jobs and tries to spend as much time with their kid as they can.
- Parents With A Hobby / life, not quite full on Parental Abandonment but they do have some thing that makes them not live at a house or apartment with the kids, could be traveling constantly with the kid or something.
- Breaking The Parental Stereotypes, Unique parents who are not from the standard cookie cutter stereotypes but still manage to do the job
- Parental Neglect, already exists.
edited 30th May '16 4:57:13 PM by Memers
[screaming in the distance]
Bump. The page says it's linked to from over 600 various pages, and chances there's even more problems to be found if I were to search through them all. It's definitely not a small trope with only like 50 wicks.
We definitely need to do something with it.
edited 17th Jun '16 12:45:42 PM by PinkCelebi
"Screw it, I AM going to enjoy this game!"
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
IMO, the trope should only cover the first two type. Parental Neglect is already a trope and the third one implies that they're good parents, if quirky.
[screaming in the distance]
Bump. Three months later, very few opinions on the matter. This makes me sad.
edited 26th Oct '16 2:49:42 AM by PinkCelebi
"Screw it, I AM going to enjoy this game!"
First of Her Name, The Unburnt, Queen of the And
Split the trope
I suppose Values Dissonance would weigh in heavily on what counts as "a trait that is okay for parents to have" and what counts as "a trait a parent shouldn't have".
We don't need justice when we can forgive. We don't need tolerance when we can love.
World's Toughest Milkman
For comparison, here's the oldest version of the page on the Internet Archive: [1]
Honestly, it looks like it started out as a bit of a complaining trope. One key phrase that's missing in the later versions is: "This trope seems to be a fairly recent development." What I get from the older version is:
"Parent ex Machina used to be a common trope, but recently, a lot of shows have been going TOO FAR the other direction!"
This, of course, is not a sound basis for a trope.
And, of course, the five or six examples on the earliest version there give us a better snapshot of the sort of thing the original creator of the trope had in mind.
Anyway, when a trope starts to go in multiple directions like this, my usual preference is to try to stick to the original definition if possible. In this case, it may be difficult. But something along those lines would still be my preference. If possible.
edited 16th Dec '16 11:43:24 AM by Xtifr
Speaking words of fandom: let it squee, let it squee.
I vote split into three tropes like Memers suggested in @8. I would say have the current name apply to the first split trope, but not have it focus on the flaws. That one would work as a good supertrope for more specific depictions of parents as people.
Also, I just remembered that old college humor video "the 6 ways you'll see your dad." I think it covers well how the Parents Are Human depiction is rare.
edited 29th Dec '16 10:16:48 PM by pokedude10
Clock is ticking.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Not quite neglect, not quite good; I think this trope wants to say "flawed but not outright bad" parents but, well, it turned out to be really vague.
I support a split, although I think we can keep this trope as a supertrope.
We don't need justice when we can forgive. We don't need tolerance when we can love.
Not enough progress; locking.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Also counts as Misused, but to a lesser degree.
So after some discussion with another troper, I have come to a conclusion that this trope name is bad.
Laconic description suggests this is about parents whose roles as parents aren't major roles.
It also talks about parents who may forget that they have their son. Or parents who "abandon" you because they pursue hobbies and whatever. And other kind of neglect.
This isn't exactly what the name suggests.
It suggests portrayal of parents in a sympathetic way, that in spite of whatever shenanigans are happening, they do care and that behind all that, they are people. Flawed, but still.
They'll also be hopeless as parents.
This couple are not usually nasty—or, if they are, we'll be told all about their Freudian Excuse. They're probably at least sympathetic, if not downright likable.
However, some of examples sound like the other, less described part - parents as people who are flawed but still care. For example, Pearl's entry:
This sounds less like "parents who abandoned her (adopted) child or/and has minor role in the child's life" and more like "parent who has mental issues".
Hell, even the quote on the top of the page suggests that. (Without having the context of situation, anyway.)
EDIT: So I finally had time to check some wicks. Note that technically this is more than 50 wicks, as sub-pages of one work are treated as the same.
Option #1 = Example that sounds what laconic and major part of the description implies (parental neglect and/or parenting not being a major role in the story)
Option #2 = Example that sounds more like Pearl's entry above.
edited 30th May '16 1:53:41 AM by PinkCelebi
"Screw it, I AM going to enjoy this game!"