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Trope Pantheons Discussion

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Welcome to the Trope Pantheons thread! Please read the rules:

    Rules 
Rules. The following are not suggestions or tips, but things that have to be followed:
  • When writing a profile, take note of the following:
    • Gods cannot be followers or high priests for obvious reasons. The 'gods' have ascended meaning there is no need for said character to be a follower of another if they have ascended.
    • No hype profiles, please. 'Hype Profiles' are profiles that have been made out of ongoing events and have not been around for a long time. This creates 'hype' due to popularity and certain elements either through certain scenes, memes, dramatic acting or considered overly awesome. They are not bad tropes but building a portfolio solely for that is a bad idea, as they do not say a thing about representing the trope best (unless it's those trope concepts that they are trying to embody for a long time)
      • You can see one if the profile is only showing off how awesome they are or suddenly pushing how 'significant' they are thanks to the just very recent events rather than respecting the longstanding good representations of the trope. And usually having... minimum portfolio or flavor texts and being a bit too generalized or self-contained to events from within their home series instead of interacting with other Pantheon members.
  • When posting in the forum, take note of the following:
    • When you suggest a God, please explain why they fit the trope. Not everyone is going to understand just "X should be the God of Y because they exemplify the trope" off the bat, especially if they're unfamiliar with the work.
    • You must use the Trope Pantheons discussion thread in the forums if you wish to add a new deity, story, something else of importance to the Trope Pantheon canon, or reworking an existing deity (be it simply improving their existing profile or changing their title).
      • For new and reworked deities, 3 [tup] means the profile will have a one week waiting period.
      • For new and reworked deities, 4 [tup] is a 3 day waiting period.
      • 5 [tup] is an automatic ascension for new and reworked deities.
      • Speaking of reworks, for anyone that wants to improve such profiles, they have to review the current trope the character(s) has and see if it still holds up or if there is a better rep for their trope.
    • For adding new Treasures to The Great Treasury or new Dominions to the Dominions, the following rules apply:
      • For new Treasures or Dominions, 3 [tup] is a 3 day waiting period.
      • 4 [tup] is an automatic addition to the Great Treasury or Dominions.
    • Do not repost a profile in the forums more than twice in a day if noticeable changes have not been made in between. If a profile is posted a third time in a row without noticeable alterations, it will be downvoted. This is so spamming of no-effort profiles is less frequent and to prevent tropers from getting aggravated seeing the same profile over and over. The minimum acceptable change has to be a single flavour text.
    • The Pantheon is not a mouthpiece for you to voice your opinions on certain characters. You may like certain characters more than others, but do not make the mistake of making profiles for characters you like look like Character Shilling.
    • Tropers new to the Pantheon are barred from approving or downvoting profiles until they have ascended at least two profiles.
    • Do not include fan reception in any profiles. It has nothing to do with the character themselves and will create unnecessary conflict.
    • Write a detailed explanation on why the character is the best candidate for deity of that trope. If people disagree with you, do not force it on the people.
    • Keep in mind that if you still want to try to find a trope for a particular character, you are only given three chances to find a particular trope for them. If a suggestion goes past three possible tropes, then it will come off as shoehorning a character into the Pantheon just for the sake of that character to be there.
      • On a related note, even if a character does have a free trope being suggested, there is still a limit of three attempts for suggesting that character for that trope. If no one responds to that certain proposal after being posted three times, then it will get to the point where the idea will be seen as being shoehorned into the Pantheon. In addition, the idea needs to be considered acceptable and approved because they are good, not for the sake of pitying others because no one is responding to their idea.
  • When posting Pantheon related stuff to the wiki, take note of the following:
    • Do not put a link to these Pantheon pages into the main wiki page. The moment you want to add in a main Characters page that the character is a God of this trope, do not do it. If you see leftovers of this practice, inform the forum and use the cutlist. This also goes to the Trivia page. The only exception to this rule is if a page in the Pantheon could be confused for a page in Main, like Good Colors, Evil Colors and Good and Evil Colors.
    • Rule of Cautious Editing Judgment ALSO applies here. Do not bring things that would incite fights, even if it is what is currently the hot topic and might be 'urgent'. For example, the political scene and some really bad politicians. We are not here to fight at each other, so don't suggest things that go to that direction, this is a fictional Pantheon after all.
    • To add a Pantheon page for a certain work, 4 or more characters coming from the same series/franchise should be ascended before adding the page. For Creator specific pages, 4 deities coming from the same creator and 2 individual work pages coming from the same creator is the minimum to warrant a page.
    • Do not create a trope page for a story until the story is fully completed.

    Instructions and Tips 
Here are some tips one should keep in mind when editing:

  • Preparing to write:
    • First thing to do before present a profile is to go to the Trope Pantheons discussion thread. In the forums, you must discuss with other users on adding ideas and seek their approval with sound reasoning. You can also get some assistance in the forum thread by either asking for help and those interested asking if they can help. Submissions that are added without discussion are likely to be deleted and those who violate those rules by adding Pantheon content without discussion will get reported to the mods.
    • If you feel the need to remove a character for some reason (poor quality, outdated titles, etcetera) and replace him/her with another or outright rework, please see what the other tropers think about this in the discussion thread before doing anything hasty. Use good reasoning to see if your idea can easily replace the character present without drawing out your statement or giving too ambiguous claims most do not understand.
    • Please be sure to consult others in the discussion about what you want to work before making the profile. This is done to see if your proposal is the best representative and so, in case your profile is turned down, you do not waste time writing something that others might not find suitable.
      • In the same vein, if you adopt a profile from another troper, it is recommended that you make an announcement that you have done so on the discussion thread. More often than not, a trope that was reserved for something was given away to someone else. Check the Related tab on the top of a page to see if a trope or character has been reserved by a user.
    • If, for whatever reason, you are writing about a God who just happens to be a person in real life, just try to be very careful about what you decide to say. Do not try to make the editing seem too meta (self-referential) and use the aformentioned creativity to create hypothetical scenarios towards fictional characters.
  • When writing a profile for a character, here are a few things to note:
    • All deities should be sorted by their divine ranking. Put Overdeities on the top of the page and Quasideities on the bottom. Also be sure to add them in alphabetical order by their first/given name (can be reversed if it is Eastern ordered). For a group, if there is no official name for them all list down all their names by order of relevance or (if too long to list) title them as Insert Name Here Main Characters or some other identifiable title along the same lines.
    • The maximum number of tropes that a god can have is two, but do not try to abuse that fact. If you need to use a second trope to specify a certain thing about their position, that can be excused either because said character represents their trope choice very well alongside the first trope. It is still generally encouraged to only have one trope.
    • A trope can only belong to one profile at a time. The only time two profiles can share a trope is if there are explicit variations listed in the trope page proper (e.g. Muscle Angst is held by both Biscuit Krueger and Chihiro Fujisaki as the former represents "Too Much Muscle" and the latter represents "Not Enough Muscle")
    • If the character you are about to add to a House already exists in another, make sure to mention that this person has spots in other House as well. Up to 2 places can be made for a deity, with the sole exceptions being those at the Main House to highlight those characters’ importance to the Pantheon’s lore.
    • For a character's theme song, try to avoid calling it "Theme of God X" or "Theme of (Show where God X originates from)". If possible, try to find out if the song has an actual name through research. Most importantly, it has to be part their series’ official soundtracks from media. Do not list songs that are made by fans or outside sources. If they were not specifically used as music for that specific character, then they do not count. Furthermore, it has to be a general theme specifically made for that characters’ appearances, not some generic music that plays for many other instances not related to the character in question.
    • For images, when adding an image for your chosen character, it is highly recommended to use a stylized image that embodies the character or renders that also highlights a character’s behavior (such as cool poses). Most images should be from the main adaptations of the character, unless the images from the other media are of a higher quality than the adaptation. Unless it is needed, do not use fanart for images. If you are, please attribute to the original artist. Due to the website’s dark mode, removing white backgrounds from an image is paramount. This website is suggested to do the background removal. If an image you have takes up too much bytes, it is suggestible to use this site to reduce the byte size. If the byte is still too big, put the compressed image to other sites (or even the same one) to compress even further. Use wikias to look for better images, as even wikias for the series might not contain good official images.
    • Creativity is your friend. While it is not recommended to get too ditzy at your ideas, it is best that when writing a profile for a certain character, do you think of capable scenarios between X and Y. Tip: do not use shallow examples (X wields a sword and Y wields one too) and try to think of relationships that makes sense (i.e those characters that are shout-outs for another).
  • Pantheon Content:
    • Some series or genres will eventually have greater representation in the Pantheon than others. This is unavoidable, but a little diversity helps to make you not look like a shill per say. Try to ensure that if you add a deity from a popular series, make sure that it is because they are a good representative for the trope in question, and not just because they are connected to another deity in their respective canon.
      • As far as deities from actual mythologies, there is generally expectation to build the profiles off interactions from fictional portrays rather than basing it entire from the actual myth. Therefore, a mythological deity should be more of a Composite Character whose main identity is from the actual myth.
    • Occasionally there will be Gods that carry a title without a trope. This is not forbidden, but it is well advised not to abuse them. The only house that a tropeless profile are wholly allowed is the House of Food. Mainly due to most food items lacking tropes, and adding tropes about said foodstuffs is slightly unnecessary. However, the character being ascended for their choice of a food, or food-related thing must be a decently good representative of said item. (i.e their Trademark Favorite Food, or something that they are closely associated with In-Universe, or both).
    • For Dominions and Treasures profiles, always consider what made those places/objects popular in the first place. Were they plot-important, identifiable imagery or have a unique aspect of it? Do not just bring regular objects under the basis of following a certain canon.
  • For Profile Standards:
    • Flavor text is used to describe certain things about a character, place or object. To avoid short ones, it is recommended to write flavor text with 4-7 sentences that can fill around 2 lines each. Be warned that adding too many sentences does not equal good flavor text as it is not an essay of sorts (unless words are substantial and do add to the overall line).
    • Character Profiles of a certain person should have the following:
      • A portfolio that contains at least 7 (at the minimum) tropes describing their character.
      • Flavor text count for a deity profile should have by minimum, 10 (depending if the character in question has enough relationships/characterization) to 15 with a maximum of 20-25 for an individual profile.
      • On the other hand, group profiles (profiles of a group that has 4 or more members) have their maximum flavor text count to 15 minimum, giving individual lines for the other members of the group (unless the members are not as characterized) up to 30 at max.
    • Dominion profiles of a certain place should have the following:
      • A portfolio that contains at least 5 (at the minimum) tropes describing the context of the place.
      • Flavor text count should range at least 10 to 15.
    • Treasure profiles (inanimate objects without a trope) should have the following:
      • A portfolio that contains at least 6 (at the minimum) tropes that describes the object itself.
      • Flavor text count should be at least 7 flavor text up to 12 to constitute a treasure profile.

    Divine Ranking System 
  • Overdeity: Omnipotent-level Reality Warpers capable of manipulating the entire universe (or at least the world) at will. Within their own universe they are believed to be omnipotent, or at least impossible-to-completely-destroy embodiments or concepts.
  • Greater Gods: High-level Reality Warpers and that are extremely powerful (capable of destroying or changing anywhere from a large city to a planet at will) and very strong non-reality warpers capable of doing the same thing.
  • Intermediate Gods: Deities at this level are capable of strong but specialized powers such as hydrokinesis, pyrokinesis, etc. without major drawbacks and low level Reality Warpers capable of affecting their immediate area at will.
  • Lesser Gods: Capable of highly specific or little power on their own, or suffer from Power at a Price. However, they may be able to ruthlessly exploit their power or combine it with just being badass enough to make up for it.
  • Demigods: Basically the Badass Normals of the pantheon, making up for their lack of abilities with strength, strategy, and/or planning.
  • Quasideities: Any otherwise normal human, human equivalent, or below without any special powers or training will fall here.

    Templates 
Template for adding a new deity:

God X, God/dess of (Insert Trope Here) (Alternate names/Nicknames, Fan Nickname)

  • An image, if possible. Please use official art or a screenshot for a picture.
  • Rank: This can range from Quasideity, Demigod, Lesser God, Intermediate God, Greater God, to Overdeity, based on representation of power mentioned above.
  • Symbol: An image or icon used to represent the deity.
  • Theme Song: Official song (in other words, no fan music, regardless of quality) that usually is used in affiliation with the character. If the deity is a musician this will most likely be their Signature Song. If possible, give a link for reference, preferably on either a website like Soundcloud or YouTube.
  • Alignment: Good, evil, neutral etc. Forget about The Great Character Alignment Debate here, the Pantheon is one of the few places where you can assign Dungeons & Dragons alignment to characters that don't have alignment system. After all, the Pantheon is based on D&D and is made for fun.
  • For Pokémon deities only:
    • Gender: Defines the gender of the Pokémon; if genderless, it instead defines what gender they identify as.
    • Ability: Provides the Pokémon's ability. If they can Mega Evolve, the new ability is listed as well.
    • Moves: Defines the four moves used by a Pokémon. A Z-Move may also be listed.
  • Portfolio: Tropes associated with the character.
  • Domains: Things that the character has influence over.
  • Herald: Non-ascended loyal character that is from the same series as the ascended character.
  • High Priest: Non-ascended like heralds, but not from the same series, and can serve as a worthy replacement in case something would happen. They can be served as part-time workers in case the originals are busy with some jobs. Co-Godhood is accepted depending on the approval of the originals, usually if the co-deity is from the same series.
  • Followers: Non-ascended characters that are not part of the Pantheon, but would probably worship this character by the fact that they share the ascended character's trope.
  • Relationships between ascended characters go here with your chosen character, it goes something like this:
    • Allies: Members of the Pantheon that are allies, those that share the same values as them and would theoretically be friends with them.
    • Rivals: Members of the Pantheon that are rivals, people who may look at your character with suspicion or a challenge.
    • Enemies: Members of the Pantheon that are foes, those who would see your chosen character as a threat, either on their pespective or yours.
    • Additional Character Relationships: Members of the Pantheon that do not fit in various relationships (examples include Enemy Mine, Vitriolic Best Buds, Teeth-Clenched Teamwork, Headbutting Heroes, Friendly Enemy, Friendly Rival, Just Friends, etc.), allies, rivals, or enemies.
    • Partner: Defines a partnership with an ascended deity and Mon-type. (if any)
    • Feared by/Fears: A deity whom the members of the Pantheon notably fear or are feared by.
    • Respected by/Respects: A deity whom the members of the Pantheon respect or are respected by.
    • Opposed by/Opposes: Not necessarily the same as "Enemies", but this is used for any deity whom the members of the Pantheon directly opposes or is opposed by (basically the opposite of "Respects") terms of certain viewpoints, regardless of alignment.
    • Pitied by/Pities: A deity whom the members of the Pantheon feel pity for or are found pitiable by.
    • Conflicting Opinion: Sometimes, the Deities argue over specific themes and philosophies.
  • Add the Intro. The intro is made up of two trivia, the Ascension Text (or just the Ascension) and The Bio. Both are necessary, but which order you use for them may vary depending on the profile in question. It may be better for one profile to have The Bio first and the Ascension second or vice-versa, although for the most part the order is irrelevant:
    • The Ascension Text: This the story of how the character got into the Pantheon and/or was ascended. There are many ways for this to happen. They may be tricked into it or have simply wandered into the Pantheon, they may have had an already ascended character bring them in, they may already be in the Pantheon (via being another deity's Herald or sharing a trope) and got "promoted", or some combination of the above. Anything is possible in the Pantheon, so use your imagination, but try to incorporate their trope into the story, if possible.
    • The Bio: A brief synopsis on the character's backstory. No need for the character's entire life/production history, but just give enough that those who don't know the character can get an idea of how the character works.
  • Now add some random trivia/facts about events/alignments/moments/fights/friendships/relations etc.
  • And some more trivia/facts.
  • And a couple of more.
    • Note: Standard amount of flavor text for Deities/Characters is 10-15 (15-20 for group profiles) at minimum to 20-25 (30 for group profiles) at maximum.

Template for Dominions profiles:

Place X, Place of (Insert Trope Here) (Alternate names/Nicknames, Fan Nickname)

  • An image, if possible. Please use official art or a screenshot for a picture.
  • Theme Song (Optional): Not important as compared to Deity and Dominion profiles but a notable mention if there is an accompanying song in use with the object.
  • Alignment: Refers to the dominion's role in their story, be it those used by villains or used by the Player Character.
  • Portfolio: Tropes associated with the dominion.
  • Domains: Things that the place has links to.
  • Relationships (Optional): Unless the location has a connection with a specific deity, relationships are optional and may not be required. However, if there are deities linked to the same series as where the dominion is linked to, note them using the relationships, this includes deities that theoretically have interest with said dominion, good or evil otherwise.
  • Add the Intro. Here the introduction of the Dominion is added with some tidbits regarding the origins of its' creation and usage in the story. You can also add what made it popular/iconic/important here.
  • Now add some random trivia/facts about events/alignments/moments/fights/friendships/relations etc.
  • And some more trivia/facts.
  • And a couple of more.
    • Note: Standard amount of flavor text for Dominions is 10 at minimum to 15 at maximum.

Template for Treasure profiles:

The name of the item in here (Alternate names/Nicknames, Fan Nickname)

  • An image, if possible. Please use official art or a screenshot for a picture.
  • Appearance: A shortened description of the item's looks with some notable features also mentioned.
  • Class: Refer to the Treasure Classification System in the Great Treasury.
  • Alignment: Refers to the objects' role in their story, be it those used by villains or used by the Player Character.
  • Theme Song (Optional): Not important as compared to Deity and Dominion profiles but a notable mention if there is an accompanying song in use with the object.
  • Museum Check: A note that says whether the item is viewable by the public.
  • Portfolio: Tropes associated with the item.
  • Domains: Things that the item has links to.
  • Relationships (Optional): Unless the item has a connection with a specific deity, relationships are optional and may not be required. However, if there are deities linked to the same series as where the item is linked to (especially the original owner of the item), note them using the relationships, this includes deities that theoretically have interest with said object, good or evil otherwise.
  • Add the Intro. Here the introduction of the Treasure is added with some tidbits regarding the origins of its' creation and usage in the story. You can also add what made it popular/iconic/important here.
  • Now add some random trivia/facts about events/alignments/moments/fights/friendships/relations etc.
  • And some more trivia/facts.
  • And a couple of more.
    • Note: Standard amount of flavor text for Treasures is 7 at minimum to 12 at maximum.

Edited by Willbyr on May 24th 2021 at 7:52:09 AM

mdalsted mdalsted from Chisago City, MN Since: Jul, 2010 Relationship Status: Singularity
mdalsted
#207551: Apr 23rd 2024 at 1:43:34 PM

So, Mana Takamiya once held the "Girl Powered" trope, but the trope has been deleted and GastonRabbit (a mod) changed the trope to Gender-Restricted Ability. However, the profile seems to be low-quality anyway. Do I have permission to take it down?

Freudian Excuse: Not one person is entirely good or evil; something will have to have happened in the past to make them what they are today.
J99908 The Lady of House Solari from The High Noon Universe (The New Guy) Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
The Lady of House Solari
#207552: Apr 23rd 2024 at 1:46:37 PM

I’d personally wait until someone familiar with her work offers to rework her, but if not I think we can pull.

[down]If that’s the case than [tup] to cutting her as well.

Edited by J99908 on Apr 23rd 2024 at 4:53:26 AM

I belong to neither Heaven nor Hell. I am a woman self-possessed.
Excessive-Menace uwu from the Velvet Cage (Not-So-Newbie) Relationship Status: Dancing with myself
uwu
#207553: Apr 23rd 2024 at 1:52:25 PM

[up][up] Looking into her, it seems that she doesn't fit that trope very well, so I'm okay with her being deleted. [tup]

THE GOLDEN AGE WILL RETURN AGAIN!
AzureLegacy Since: Sep, 2018
#207554: Apr 23rd 2024 at 1:57:06 PM

@yugi195 I think it’s pretty good so far, feels complete. But if you’re still willing to add, I’d say enemies with The Shredder. In the third Batman/Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Krang merged their realities and in said new reality, Joker was the head of the Foot Clan (then named Smiling Clan). Eventually everyone got back to their senses, and the Foot Soldiers themselves likely hate Joker more than The Shredder does. Also in a different crossover Shredder was Joker Gassed, but he powered through it thanks to his hatred for Splinter.

Edited by AzureLegacy on Apr 23rd 2024 at 1:58:41 AM

VengefulBale Dagded Dujardin from The Universe (it's his room) Since: Feb, 2016 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Dagded Dujardin
#207555: Apr 23rd 2024 at 2:13:08 PM

[up] @yugi195: Also in a crossover between the DCAU and 2012 version of TMNT the Joker and Shredder had bad blood too, stemming from the Joker trying to hijack the Foot Clan and Shredder resisting the Joker Gas when reminded of his hatred of Splinter

Edited by VengefulBale on Apr 23rd 2024 at 4:13:22 AM

"Bingo! If two species hate each other, they will wipe each other out on their own."
lawliet-saw-whet Resident Trope Lurker from Your Head, In Your Head, Zombie, Zombie Since: Sep, 2014 Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
Resident Trope Lurker
#207556: Apr 23rd 2024 at 2:15:19 PM

@mdalsted

  • I also checked her character page, the trope page and her wiki pages and nothing about her powersnote  doesn't seem to restricted with gender at all. As her current trope is definitely not a good fit for her (and alternative tropes from the TRS thread not being good; Powered Armor being taken and give her World of Action Girls is questionable), I agree for a cut for now. [tup]

@yugi195 - The Joker

Edited by lawliet-saw-whet on Apr 23rd 2024 at 5:16:11 PM

Mood Status: Currently suffering from cringe.
Gehayadren Bad Movie Binge Collector from A Garbage Fire Since: Jun, 2016 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Bad Movie Binge Collector
#207557: Apr 23rd 2024 at 2:21:31 PM

It would be easier to list who doesn't want the Joker dead. This applies to all alignments.

Ha ha ha. What a story, Mark.
mdalsted mdalsted from Chisago City, MN Since: Jul, 2010 Relationship Status: Singularity
mdalsted
#207558: Apr 23rd 2024 at 2:48:10 PM

And Mana is no longer in the Pantheon.

Freudian Excuse: Not one person is entirely good or evil; something will have to have happened in the past to make them what they are today.
neoamon Mr from Planet Mobius S.T.C. Since: Nov, 2010
Mr
#207559: Apr 23rd 2024 at 2:59:36 PM

In the 1989 Batman movie Joker was the man who killed Thomas and Martha Wayne so they would hate him for killing them and orphaned Bruce.

[down][down][down]I must have missed it when I was reading the Joker's profile.

Edited by neoamon on Apr 23rd 2024 at 12:43:53 PM

"May your heart be your guiding key"
Excessive-Menace uwu from the Velvet Cage (Not-So-Newbie) Relationship Status: Dancing with myself
uwu
#207560: Apr 23rd 2024 at 3:12:12 PM

Power Levels and Appearance has hit the too long warning. Perhaps it can be split into separate "Power Levels" and "Power Appearances" Halls since the current Hall contains those two concepts in one page.

THE GOLDEN AGE WILL RETURN AGAIN!
AzureLegacy Since: Sep, 2018
#207561: Apr 23rd 2024 at 3:14:42 PM

[up][tup] To the split

yugi195 Chronicle Magician from Spirit World Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Chronicle Magician
#207562: Apr 23rd 2024 at 3:15:24 PM

[up][up][up] Right... I'm pretty sure I included a reference to that.

In another few hours, the sun will rise.
RJ-19-CLOVIS-93 from Australia Since: Feb, 2015
#207563: Apr 23rd 2024 at 3:59:31 PM

@ Joker: I wonder what he might think of Judge Doom. He's a self-hating Toon who has the facade of this ruthless law enforcer who wants to commit a Final Solution on toons to make way for a freeway. In truth he's an Ax-Crazy, Evil Has a Bad Sense of Humor villain that wants to kill toons and humans alike because it's fun. Because of how Toon Physics work, his ability to kill people with toon powers works because he personally finds it hilarious. That said, I doubt they would get along; Joker would heckle his dour, self-loathing Mask of Sanity, and Doom would be reminded of everything he hates about toons despite (maybe even because) the similarities they share

In terms of anime Practically Joker, I am curious as to how he would feel about Hisoka and Shogo Makishima

First draft of Red Son Superman. Right now I am looking for allies in the form of those from the Soviet Union (or at least those on good/speaking terms with him), and former authoritarians who learned the error of their ways

Kal-L of Earth 30, God of Adaptational Upbringing Changes (Superman of Earth 30, Somishka)

https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/superman_red_son.png
  • Hall: Adaptational Changes (House of Media and Connectivity)
  • Greater God (Overdeity under a blue sun and Demigod under a red sun, just like his counterpart)
  • Symbol: The hammer and sickle shield logo on his chest
  • Theme Song: The opening theme for its adaptation
  • Alignment: True Neutral trying to be Neutral Good (used to be Lawful Evil)
  • Portfolio: What If? Superman Grew Up In The Stalinist Soviet Union, Cape Morality Impacted By This Fact, Deconstruction of Alternate Universe Reed Richards Is Awesome, Having A Civilian Name In The Animated Movie And More Of A Willingness To Kill (mainly Comrade Stalin), All-Loving Hero Turned Affably Evil Well-Intentioned Extremist, Obliviously Evil Until He Realizes He's A Tyrant And Breaks Down Crying, Soviet Premier Superhero, Horrible Judge of Character, Heroic Sacrifice (though Not Quite Dead afterwards)
  • Domains: Elseworlds, the Soviet Union, Superhumans, Authoritarianism, Alternate History, Realization, Atonement
  • Interested in: Lois Lane
  • Allies: Nolan Grayson, Merlina
  • On good terms with: Mark Grayson, Soda Popinski, Nikolay Ivanovich Krylov, Natasha Romanoff, Asa Martin/the Samaritan, Steve Rogers/Captain America
  • On speaking terms with: The Asteromorphs, Superboy-Prime
  • Headbutting Heroes with: Clark Kent/Kal-El/Superman (his Earth 0/prime counterpart), Diana/Wonder Woman, The Earth Green Lanterns of Sector 2814
  • Odd Friendship with: Lord Business, Metro Man
  • Rivals: High Councillor Kal-El/Regime Superman (his Earth-49 counterpart), Thaal Sinestro
  • Enemies
  • On poor terms with: Bruce Wayne/Batman, the other Boys, Lonnie Machin/Anarky
  • Respects: Jonathan and Martha Kent, Lois Lane, Captain America, Sonic the Hedgehog, Rebecca "Annie" January/Starlight, Margaret "Maggie" Shaw/Queen Maeve
  • Disappointed in: Lex Luthor
  • Disappoints: Darkseid, Zod, YHVH, the Network
  • Uncertain opinion on: The Sentry, Iroque/Indigo-1, The Phantom Thieves of Heart
  • They say Upbringing Makes the Hero, something Clark Kent firmly believes in. So what if that upbringing was changed? Say, that spaceship arrived 12 hours off and ended up in Soviet Ukraine? You get the Superman of Earth-30, better known as Red Son Superman. Fighting for Stalin, communism, and the international expansion of the Warsaw Pact, he became a pupil of the Soviet Premier and grew up under the beliefs of the Soviet Union. When Stalin died, he would end up succeeding him as a Reluctant Ruler...well, for a time. As Premier of the Soviet Union he would end up becoming a dictator, almost taking the world. To many he was a Benevolent Dictator...but was the repressiveness really worth it? After all, why doesn't he just put the entire world in a bottle if it needs his protection? Realizing how much the cost of totalitarianism amounted to changed his mind...unfortunately Brainiac wasn't exactly into him giving up, and when defeated he planned to blow the whole solar system to kingdom come. Superman would prove himself a hero once more by sacrificing himself to stop this. However he secretly survived, choosing to be incognito and abandon any attempt to control mankind's destiny again.
  • The ascension of the Red Son Superman was anticipated by his Earth 0 counterpart, the OG Superman. He was one of many alternate selves that has a place in the Supermen of the Multiverse formally organized during Final Crisis, helping defeat Ultraman and the Dark Monitor. While anticipated, it would be a stretch to say he would be accepted warmly. Though he started with the best of intentions Kal-L was a dictator, if a well-intentioned one, and his soured relationship with the Wonder Woman of his universe, and conflict with the Green Lantern Marine Corps, wasn't going to make their alliance an easy one. An alliance it still is however, as the Earth-30 Superman wants to make up for his past actions. Batman is particularly distrustful of him, and to a lesser extent so's the communist Superman; the Batman of his world was a violent anarchist. To distinguish himself from his counterparts and to reinforce some humility in himself, he goes by his civilian name Somishka, given to him by the animated adaptation. His first order of business upon ascension? Find out more about DC characters from the Prime Earth, and the superheroes and villains of other universes.
  • He's very interested in Lois Lane and his prime self's adoptive parents, the latter because of the argument of Nature Versus Nurture. He's arguably a case of both; while his different upbringing made him employ more questionable methods, he had just as much a motive to do good as his prime self. He deeply respects the Kents for how well they raised his wholly good-aligned counterpart. He was raised on a farm himself, though Soviet Ukraine is quite different from Kansas. The Lois in his world was married to Lex Luthor, though she was no less of an ethical journalist on Earth 30 than Earth 0. Now Lex, that's a different story. While Earth-30 Luthor is just as conceited and arrogant as his prime counterpart, he's on the side of US government and a Nominal Hero (or Anti-Hero if you want to be generous) who would start a golden age after Superman's "death". Knowing this, Somishka can't help but feel disappointed in his prime counterpart for wasting so much effort against a version of himself that's a genuine hero. Lex naturally doesn't buy that the Earth-30 Superman has reformed and thinks he validates his beliefs to an extent, though he did like to learn about his variant and finds there's a funny sort of irony in how their lives turned out in that universe.
  • The Superman of Earth-30 is naturally compared to the other Supermen in the Trope Pantheon. And not just them, but those who clearly parallel the Man of Steel. Mainly, it's the ones that "go off the beaten path", so to speak, that are of note to the Soviet superhero, though it's not just them. The most obvious comparison one can make with the Red Son Superman is his Regime counterpart. Both see Superman become a dictator for a perceived greater good, though the trigger is different; Regime Superman lost everything, and Red Son Superman was mentored by Joseph Stalin. However Regime Superman has stayed steadfast in his ideals, much to his Earth-0 and -30 counterparts' disappointment. That Superman thinks his communist doppelganger essentially gave up too soon, however he admires his virtues and accomplishments as dictator. The two have ended up becoming rivals, primarily on an ideological status. So what about other Superman types? How does he feel about them?
    • Due to disavowing many of his old views but not exactly being trusted by the hero community Somishka doesn't have many friends. However he does have a very strong friendship with a Superman Substitute; Nolan Grayson, aka Omni-Man. Omni-Man grew up as a Viltrumite, Social Darwinist aliens who invaded planets to "help" them (basically the alien version of White Man's Burden), masquerading as The Cape to prepare Earth. But the love of his son, and to a lesser extent wife had him realize he cared. He'd eventually reform his ways and when he eventually became leader, he helped his people reform their ways. Omni-Man has gone through a similar arc to Somishka, so it's no wonder that they relate to one another. He's fond of his son Mark, as he is the one who let the spark of his father's compassion. As a formerly evil Superman, this puts him in an interesting spot with Superboy-Prime. Prime was a much more childish, dangerous villain, but following the events of Dark Nights: Death Metal he's finally turned over a new leaf and is trying to be a hero again. He knows the temptation though, and would like help from the more mature Red Son variant as a Superman who can understand more than most.
    • At best, he perceives the Plutonian as an especially powerful yet extremely violent maniac. One who has been given chances to reform and rejected them. Red Son Superman, for all his flaws, still held on to a sense of humility and genuine compassion for people, even if his vision of "saving the world" was ultimately the wrong one. The Plutonian's heroism was ultimately driven by ego rather than any genuine desire to help. Though his Regime counterpart disagrees with his decision to stop his Totalitarian Utilitarian path, they'll happily join up and teach the Plutonian a lesson. The Earth-30 Superman has is less disgusted and more disappointed, as is his prime counterpart, with the Homelander. Somishka is currently trying to live up to the virtues of his communist upbringing as part of his atoning, so he sees Vought-American and the Seven as emblematic of the negatives of capitalism, pointing out how they've enabled the emotionally unstable traits of their Supes. The obvious exception is Starlight, who he respects for being a genuine hero. He's come around to respecting Queen Maeve due to her more active heroism on the TV show.
    • Compared to his more intense relationships with other Supermen and their expies, his relationship with Metro Man is a lot more light-hearted. Metro Man felt he was defined by the role of Metro City's number one hero and had an understandable, albeit selfish desire to finish his rivalry with Megamind. Seeing how far Somishka went to do the right thing, he thinks taking a break and sorting out his priorities is a good thing. After everything, the Soviet's Man of Steel, decided yeah, he could kick back and relax at Metro Man's place...just as long as he doesn't sing. The guitar riffs are fine. Occasionally the Samaritan and the Sentry show up when they need to take a much-needed breather. Asa Martin is glad that Earth-30 Superman is reforming but isn't comfortable enough to form an alliance yet given his past. Somishka thinks this is fair, and he's noted that while interested in the Sentry he's not quite sure about him yet because of the Void's influence on him.
  • He is slightly different in the animated version. While both versions try a non-lethal option, the animated version is willing to kill. However his main victim? Joseph Stalin. A tyrant historically seen as bad as the Fuhrer himself, with one of his atrocities being a genocidal starvation in Somishka's own land of Ukrainenote , most see it as a Pay Evil unto Evil moment. That said, his solution for dissidents and criminals was debatable worse; neurological implants to make sure they'd be good and happy. After the "why don't you put the whole world in a bottle?!" line he considers this one of his biggest regrets. It's why, as much of a point they may have and as heroic as they can be, he's unable to get on board with the Indigo Tribe or the Phantom Thieves of Heart. He has no intention of entering the Hall of Mind Control outside of taking the fight to Yuri, who uses mind control devices except with no illusions that this isn't just a method of control. Yuri is flummoxed by how that speech got through to him, and thinks of Kal-L as a disappointment.
  • The other difference in the animated version is his origins. There he's a Kryptonian, as you'd expect. But in the original comic, the world he's from is actually a very distant future Earth, sent back in hopes of changing things as the planet is about to succumb to the sun's red giant phase only to form part of a Stable Time Loop. Interestingly, this Superman the very distant descendant of Lex Luthor. Being a highly evolved human he is of interest to the Asteromorphs, who have long appreciated the heroism of the regular Superman in service of his adopted home. The Qu hold contempt for Kal-L and see his existence as similarly blasphemous. After learning what the Qu have done, the contempt is mutual. Regardless of where he was born, Somishka sees himself as a human and Soviet citizen first. He was interested in reaching out to Black Widow, a superheroine that used to be a Soviet spy, as he wanted someone to talk about his situation. Her teammate Captain America is a bit off-put as this Superman was Stalin's successor in more ways than one, but he's accepting to him wanting to live up to the mantle of Earth-0 Superman. The Earth-30 Superman respects Cap because he's a patriotic hero that always puts his morality and the virtues of the nation he loves first over any loyalty to its government. He wishes he had that kind of mindset.
  • He's Ukrainian, not Russian, though even before becoming Soviet Premier he spent a good amount of time there paraded by Stalin. Wanting to do something light-hearted, he got out red sunlight lights so he could brawl with Soda Popinski in a fair fight, as some much needed fun for a man who'd definitely benefit from it. He trains with him to learn how to box better so he's not left behind in the Strong and Skilled department compared to his prime counterpart. "Rurik II" had been observing their brawl and says he wants to reach out to the Soviet Superman, saying while he doesn't agree with his past methods he does want to see him aspire to greatness. Nikolay used to be a Red Army soldier that went off the deep end but still managed to become The Good King, so Somishka respects him. Something he's noted is that the two of them live within Alternate History, which started to make him wonder...what other Supermen in the multiverse had a shake-up to their origins? How might they compare to him? He decided to go to the House of Time and Temporality and figure out the answer
    • He was disturbed to learn about Earth-10, where he also landed in 1938...in Czechoslovakia. The Nazis had a field day with his ship. Amazingly, his counterpart Overman was the only member of the New Reischman to carry a sense of guilt about it. He was involved in Nazi atrocities but deeply regrets it and is trying his best to make up for it. While he was too young to fight in WW2, Somishka hates Nazis by default, and the Soviets were easily the most heated rivals of the Nazis during the war. Still, the fact that even in that timeline he had some sense of good was something to note. It's a factor behind Ultraman being Somishka's least favorite counterpart, as he never held any potential for heroism. Earth-23 was a much needed palette cleanser; a universe where he was black and got into politics, becoming US President, and an effective one at that. Somishka thinks of Calvin Ellis as his good counterpart
    • Some other timelines include him being raised by the Waynes and becoming Batman, and being seized by the US government. Didn't exactly end well for "Subject One", and it makes him glad he was raised by farmers instead of the Red Army and thus directly under Stalin. It's given him a little bit of pity for Homelander due to how he was raised in a cold, unfeeling lab, but he reminds himself he's a psychopathic narcissist. It's also given him a lot of sympathy for the Last Man of Alcatraz. He was a Superman Substitute that genuinely wanted to do good, but he was ruthlessly exploited by the US government, and later on the Lunarians, being brainwashed to do evil before eventually snapping for real. The Last Son is now a Tragic Monster beyond reasoning, much as Somishka wants to reach out to him, but he knows he has to be stopped even if he wished there was some other way.
  • His redemption is seen as a massive disappointment by many a tyrant, Zod musing that while he could hardly call him an ally while he was Soviet premier he had his respect for how he led the Soviet Union. Darkseid and YHVH were going to see him as an opponent anyway but they preferred him as a villain because he aligned more with their own ideals and philosophies. The Network thought he could've been a great emissary and promoter. Somishka for what it's worth wants to divorce himself from any tyrant, especially if they had the same kind of beliefs he used to be. Some tyrants weren't disappointed because they knew they were always too evil for him to handle; we're talking your Dr Weils and your IT. Others even more so. Clu was perhaps the most sympathetic yet disappointed of Kal-L, as his desire to seek perfection means he sympathizes with his hardship at making a better world. Somishka coldly responded that he cannot accept his genocide.
  • Nikita Dragovich is perhaps the most upset by his turn because he saw him as an ideal vessel of ensuring Soviet and communist domination, however Superman looks at him with contempt. He's called him out for acting like the Red Army's sworn enemies, musing he reminds him of Pyotr Roslov and Stalin himself. Dragovich is arguably more envious than frustrated as Superman's time as Soviet Premier was a fulfillment of his wildest dreams; he cannot imagine how one moralizing letter broke his desire to rule. The Aryan Brotherhood weren't so much disappointed as they were disgusted by an alien taking over the USSR, but since they're Boomerang Bigot trash Somishka doesn't give a damn what they think. The Emperor of Mankind wasn't fond of Somishka's past, being that he is one way or another an alien who almost ruled the world, though as a ruthless dictator himself a lot of his critiques could be pointed at him. The Emperor defends this by saying while his own means are similar, he has far worse threats to deal with that need his extremist actions.
  • Billy Butcher isn't convinced that his redemption is genuine and his past deeds help fuel his hatred of supes, not helped by his comic self coming to the conclusion all supes, himself and the other Boys included, need to die. The other Boys only tolerate him begrudgingly, as while they accept he wants to try and live a normal human life and make up for his past deeds they aren't ready to trust him yet. On that path to redemption, Somishka tends to work with those who hold their own regrets about past extremism, who he counts as more full-fledged allies. Merlina tried to keep her world alive at any cost, however after being defeated by Sonic he was able to inspire her to accept its mortality and adopt The Anti-Nihilist philosophy.

Rmpdc Ghoulish Brain Worm from Philippines Since: May, 2015 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Ghoulish Brain Worm
#207564: Apr 23rd 2024 at 4:22:27 PM

[up] While he may dislike those who were close to Stalin or idolized Stalinism such as Yevgeny Borisovitch Volgin, Red Son Superman would probably be on good terms with Chummy Commies like Viktor Reznov, Dimitri Petrenko, Vasili Ivanovich Koslov, Vasily Zaytsev, and, most notably Marshal Georgy Zhukov, all of whom fought against the German Invasion, some of them helping take down the Third Reich in Berlin.

Edited by Rmpdc on Apr 23rd 2024 at 7:23:46 PM

The Fight Continues!
yugi195 Chronicle Magician from Spirit World Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Chronicle Magician
#207565: Apr 23rd 2024 at 4:23:42 PM

[up][up] His use of mind control on criminals and dissidents makes him similar to the Justice Lord Superman of Earth-50, who used his heat vision to lobotomize supervillains.

Edited by yugi195 on Apr 23rd 2024 at 1:25:02 PM

In another few hours, the sun will rise.
PhantomFire NIP (Non-Important Person) from Sol 3 Since: Jan, 2021 Relationship Status: Singularity
NIP (Non-Important Person)
#207566: Apr 23rd 2024 at 4:30:43 PM

[up][up][up]Georgy Zhukov is a well-respected WWII Soviet hero who was a key figure in keeping the government in order following Stalin's death. There's also Vasily Zaytsev, Vasili Ivanovich Koslov, Viktor Reznov and Dimitri Petrenko, all loyal Soviet soldiers who might be respectful, if a little skeptical about the Man of Steel.

[down][down]Yes. That's right.

[down]Edit:No problem.

Edited by PhantomFire on Apr 23rd 2024 at 8:56:36 AM

Rmpdc Ghoulish Brain Worm from Philippines Since: May, 2015 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Ghoulish Brain Worm
#207567: Apr 23rd 2024 at 4:39:27 PM

[up] That's what I just said. Edit: Alright, sorry for that. Thank you for linking each profile in my stead.

[down] Yeah. Makes sense.

Edited by Rmpdc on Apr 23rd 2024 at 9:52:29 PM

The Fight Continues!
J99908 The Lady of House Solari from The High Noon Universe (The New Guy) Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
The Lady of House Solari
#207568: Apr 23rd 2024 at 5:07:05 PM

[up]I think he was providing links to them.

I belong to neither Heaven nor Hell. I am a woman self-possessed.
SailorVenus372 Since: Nov, 2019 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
#207569: Apr 23rd 2024 at 6:59:19 PM

Singularity.

Aside from other Bayonetta deities, any suggestions for enemies. And for Allies?

No-Thumbs Mode

Singularity, God of Winning Either Way (The Crafted Tyrant, DCH-AN-3G-H6554823)

https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/singularity_6.jpg
Singularity Cloud Proxy
Singularity Chaos
Singularity Balance
Singularity Definition
Singularity Shadow

I’m plotting my schemes wherever I go! They’re perfect in every way…
RJ-19-CLOVIS-93 from Australia Since: Feb, 2015
#207570: Apr 23rd 2024 at 7:13:37 PM

[nja]

Edited by RJ-19-CLOVIS-93 on Apr 24th 2024 at 2:19:22 AM

HamanaHamanaHamana Dog or Oni? (Bitroper)
Dog or Oni?
#207571: Apr 23rd 2024 at 7:20:31 PM

@the Joker. With how his profile is shaping up to be aligned with his original comics incarnation (I still don't see anything related to The Killing Joke), the animated series and his older film versions and that his profile will get too long if more of his incarnations are mentioned, maybe you could delete his mentions regarding the Gotham TV show and Joker.

[down]Whoops, my mistake.

Edited by HamanaHamanaHamana on Apr 23rd 2024 at 7:34:59 PM

I swear Loid, you can't draw worth shit!
yugi195 Chronicle Magician from Spirit World Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Chronicle Magician
#207572: Apr 23rd 2024 at 7:31:24 PM

[up] Right, nothing related to The Killing Joke apart from the mention of him shooting Barbara, his plan to drive her father insane by doing so, and his origin as a failed comedian with a pregnant wife.

Edited by yugi195 on Apr 23rd 2024 at 4:37:55 PM

In another few hours, the sun will rise.
RJ-19-CLOVIS-93 from Australia Since: Feb, 2015
#207573: Apr 23rd 2024 at 8:10:14 PM

@ Singularity: While you mention his enmity with Zamasu, I feel it would be more of the rival type. They're both supreme narcissists who have a vision of a perfect and beautiful multiverse, though Zamasu insists its for the greatest good. However their vision amounts to being the only sentient being in creation. Another comparison could be made with Father of the Homunculi. Father is also an artificial creation, being a more traditional homunculus formed from a piece of the Truth that attempted to purify himself of his human aspects by making the Seven Deadly Sins Homunculi from himself. Like Singularity he's a raging egotist who doesn't want to be bound by anything. Unlike Singularity his homunculi creations aren't mindless but a sort of twisted family.

NitroIndigo ♀ | Small ripples lead to big waves from West Midlands region, England Since: Jun, 2021 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
♀ | Small ripples lead to big waves
#207574: Apr 23rd 2024 at 10:26:08 PM

@Venus: Did you notice that I suggested he'd be enemies with the Cassette Beasts party members?

SailorVenus372 Since: Nov, 2019 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
#207575: Apr 23rd 2024 at 10:28:17 PM

[up] Crud, knew I forgot something

I’m plotting my schemes wherever I go! They’re perfect in every way…

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