During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Bird Tim Curry.
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
General Von Talon, the, as said, murderous Nazi Falcon war criminal who kills and tortures onscreen. You know, for kids!
Seriously, What Do You Mean, It's for Kids?
Edited by MasterN on Mar 10th 2020 at 9:11:16 AM
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
to Von Talon
Von Talon, Matthew, and the demolisher. Hello, after introducing myself to the Magnificent Bastard Thread by successfully recommending Spooky, I thought I'd rec someone here.
Unfortunately, as much as I would love to, no one in Spooky can qualify. Spooky lost her moral agency, almost none of the specimens have character (the few that do have redeeming qualities), and the heinous standard is jacked. So, I'll be sticking to something else horror related!
What is the work?
Snow White!...Junji Ito's Snow White. Yes, the famous horror manga artist and writer had decided to dip his hand into the twisted fairytale genre, and boy, he does it in classic Ito fashion. This one-shot was originally published on December 2014 in Bunkasha's Manga Grimm Dōwa (Manga Grimm's Fairy Tales)
Who is the Queen, and what does she do?
Like most incarnations of the story, The Queen has a magic mirror who constantly told her she was the fairest in the land, feeding the queen's vanity. Then, one day, it told her she was only the second. Enraged, The Queen demands to know who took her spot, and, like always, Snow White has. Snow White is The Queen and King's adopted daughter.
The Queen's rage reaches a boiling point when she sees her husband blatantly hitting on Snow White (though she actually seems to consent, and considering the time period, I guess that's okay?). Growing even more jealous of Snow White, she has her tossed in the dungeon. Of course, being put in a cell doesn't immediately change how one looks, so the mirror continues to talk about how beautiful Snow White is.
Despite all the other stuff I said before, this is where the story takes a turn. So, like in the original, The Queen calls for Snow White's murder, and since Snow White is just down in the dungeon, she is able to do just that. With Snow White dead, the mirror returns to talking about the queen being the fairest...then one day it talks about Snow White taking the spot, again.
Confused and enraged, the Queen runs down to the dungeon to find a resurrected Snow White, having been revived by the spirits of seven dwarves that died and were buried beneath the dungeon. They took pity on the beautiful young girl, and brought her back from the dead. Not that that matters to the Queen, who has her killed, again. Like before, the mirror speaks of Snow White's beauty, and the Queen finds her resurrected once more. So the Queen kills her, again...and again, and again, and again, getting more brutal, sadistic, and maddened every time she kills her, even going so far as to mutilate poor Snow White's face.
Despite being mutilated, the mirror continues to call Snow White the fairest, sighting how her deformities caused by the Queen help her look more beautiful. Driven to the absolute edge of sanity, The Queen has Snow White doused in gasoline (or whatever flammable liquid they'd be using in this time period) and set aflame. Fortunately for the Queen, this will kill Snow White permanently. Unfortunately for the Queen, this will kill Snow White permanently, and dwarves are pissed. Their pity for Snow White never fading, the dwarves make sure she will stay the fairest by pushing the Queen's sorry ass into the fire. In the end, The Queen is left a disgusting, charred skeleton, while Snow White looks like a beautifully sculpted statue. Fairest of the land, even in death.
Excuses or redeeming qualities?
Not from what I can tell. The Queen was a vain jerk before Snow White popped into the picture, and she became an Ax-Crazy vain jerk when she did. I think their might be some deeply rooted insecurities, by they're not 100% confirmed, and I'm pretty sure the horrific things the Queen does to Snow White far outweighed any sympathy or justification these hypothetical insecurities could've bought.
Heinousness?
Only real threat. I'm a tad confused about The King, but considering the time period, I am certain this is most likely Deliberate Values Dissonance. I mean, let's be fair, wanting to court your teenaged adopted daughter is pretty light compared to the other stuff that was legal back then.
I am also aware that the Queen, technically, only has one victim, but God the things she does to poor Snow White. While the dwarves really should've let her die in peace, at least they thought they were doing right by her, and I think they might be a case of Blue-and-Orange Morality, The Queen is the reason they should've done so. Butchering Snow White to the extent that, by the end, she's covered in stab wounds and her face is cut open. I'm not sure how much torture needs to be dealt to a single person for the torturer to get this trope, but I honestly don't think I ever will if this isn't enough.
Final verdict?
from me!
Goku Black
Matthew and talon (I saw that film years ago honestly )
the Queen.
Matthew, Von Talon
the Queen as well (poor Snow White!)
to the Queen
The MILF Virus
Talon and the Wicked Queen. As someone who proposed a CM similar to the Queen, I can tell you she's a definite keeper.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
BTW, the mods are STILL behind. I haven't even submitted THIS week's batch yet, as they've not done LAST week's.
Yes to Matthew; Von Talon; Queen.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
I thought sharks were my friends.
First, yay to the queen.
Second, I apologize for being off and on this thread. I've been really busy.
Third, remember how a few months ago I got the Maze Meister from Mr. Maze approved? Yeah... that was a mistake. I recently replayed the game, but this time I went out of my way to gather every single collectible, which is not an easy feat, as a few are really well hidden. Then I got to the end, and guess what? Turns out getting 100% Completion unlocks two new cutscenes! I said in my original EP that the game closes with a few loose ends, such as the information recorded in the Knowledge Stone that the Maze Meister was after and had sent so many innocent to a horrible death to retrieve, and whether or not the Maze Meister was still alive. Turns out both those questions get answered in the hidden cutscenes.
One extra cutscene plays after the credits roll, and it's revealed that the Maze Meister did indeed survive his Disney Villain Death, and he swears revenge on Peter.
The other cutscene plays just before the final encounter with the Maze Meister, when Peter begins to chase him up a snowy mountain. We're treated a flashback of the Maze Meister's youth. Turns out that ever since he was a boy, he had been gifted with powerful magic that he inherited from his father, but his father had taught him to be careful with how he utilized his powers. He heeded his father's lesson well, until years later when he got married and had a daughter. He wanted to entertain his daughter, but also wanted to make sure she was safe. To that end, he created the maze realms, where his daughter was free to solve mazes to her heart's content, and he also left the Knowledge Stones within the mazes, allowing her to record her adventures so that her could find her if she ever went missing. One day, he made a new maze for her that was made of beautiful hedges and bushes, and of course she wasted no time trying to solve it. Unfortunately, the arid weather combined with the rays of the sun caused the hedges to ignite, turning the maze into a blazing Inferno. The Maze Meister desperately ran inside in an attempt to save his daughter, badly burning himself in the process, only to find her body lying dead next to a Knowledge Stone. He tried to get closer, but by then the fire had grown so large that he was forced to retreat, leaving the eternally burning maze to become his daughter's tomb. Now, years later, the Maze Meister desperately wants to retrieve the Knowledge Stone within Inferno, as it contains the very final thoughts of his daughter just before she died, and all he wants is to know what she was thinking in her last moments.
So... Holy shit... In just one cutscene, the Maze Meister is changed from a callous monster who doesn't care how many innocent lives he has to end, including children, into a grieving and remorseful father who is willing to cross the Moral Event Horizon as long as it means he can hear his daughter's voice one last time... Granted, he's still a mass murderer who needed to be stopped, but damn... The models of the game may be terrible, and the voice-acting may be average, but the story-telling itself really isn't bad, and this scene legitimately made me feel like I was about to cry.
So, yeah, not much else to say really, other than the fact that the Maze Meister clearly needs to be cut ASAP. I am so sorry for missing this important detail the first time. I swear I didn't do it on purpose. The game is really obscure and hardly has any info online, meaning I couldn't back my own gameplay experience with another source, and the particular cutscene only unlocks if you've achieved 100% Completion, meaning I had to find every single collectible without any sort of guide because, again, the game is very obscure.
(PS, I also found out from reading the end-credits that Yong Yea provided the voice for an extra charatcer, so that was neat. Sorry again!)
RIP KissAnime.
Talon (I've seen that movie before, but forgot it existed for the longest time.......) and the Queen, and cut Maze Meister with that new information
The Draftsman of Doom
Queen.
Cut Maze Meister.
Not to worry, Delph, we all have the potential to have moments like this.
Edited by SkyCat32 on Mar 11th 2020 at 6:48:55 AM
Feels good, don't it?
Cut, interesting twist there.
Showtime!
Goku Black
Evil Queen (I'm actually working on an mb post of a version of her at this moment. So this is weird...)
Cut maze dude.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Cut the Maze Meister.
Talon and Evil Queen.
to Copley-Barnes, Von Talon and the Queen; tentative to Demolisher. Cut Maze Meister.
Von Talon.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Maze dude's gotta go. No worries; I'm not sure of any other case where 100% Completion results in a CM getting disqualified.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Goku Black
That's a new disqualification .
Though we do have guys who are disqualified due to player choice and Alternate paths.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Yes to Matthew, Von Talon, and Queen. Cut Maze.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Weird. And kinda amazing
Edited by KazuyaProta on Mar 10th 2020 at 10:34:13 AM
Watch me destroying my country