Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

It sounds like most of the stuff he does is only mentioned here, and not shown. I'm guessing we don't see him sexually abusing his daughter, so it's safe to say that it's all offscreen.

edited 20th Nov '13 9:24:03 AM by Camberf

Well with five in favor of Kehck, I'll do a new expansive write-up for him tonight if there are no objections.

@19311: If it's right that all of that's offscreen, then looks like a cut unfortunately.

Lighty (and anyone else): Willbyr needs help.

edited 20th Nov '13 11:32:30 AM by ACW

Have all the past YMMV entries brought up been purged that weren't kept or rewritten? Here's one for Kazuo Kiriyama

• Kazuo Kiriyama from The Film of the Book for Battle Royale stands in contrast to his emotionless counterpart from the book and manga versions. Kiriyama in the film is a ruthless and psychopathic Blood Knight who voluntarily signed up for 'The Program' to be able to hunt down teenagers for for fun. Throughout the film, Kiriyama wracks up the highest kill count, not caring if his victims are helpless or not, and after gunning down one girl, he uses a megaphone so everyone around can hear her pain and his execution of her. While he never speaks a word, his Slasher Smile throughout the film speaks volumes for how much he is relishing his murder of everyone around him.

What's the problem?

Minor suggestion for the Cartoon Network page. A the end of the entry for Katz from Courage the Cowardly Dog, it says "What makes Katz even worse is the fact that the family is heavily implied to just be the first in a long line of victims to fall into his clutches." I think it would make more sense to say "the latest in a long line of victims".

Also, if no one minds I'll edit the Transformers page for possible spelling or grammar mistakes.

Didn't we vote Kazuo down before on the basis that he demonstrates no emotion or characterisation whatsoever? I mean, you could replace him with The Terminator and it wouldn't change the plot of the film in the slightest. I'm going to register a "nay" vote against him on that basis. I don't think he has enough personality.

He doesn't talk in the film. He emotes plenty. He grins tons of times, he displays sadism and he's capable of reasoning. Plus he enjoys tormenting the classmates, hence the bit with megaphone

He's emotionless in the book and manga. The film? He's just a sadistic sociopath signing up for fun. Everything you listed could be applied to Michael Myers as well as a negative. Kiriyama in the film displays more emotion (by default, given Michael's mask) and equal sadism.

edited 20th Nov '13 3:54:08 PM by Lightysnake

Okay, so here's my attempt at a Kehck write-up.

• General Kehck is the leader of the Alpha Sections, a military organization devoted to battling the DomZ aliens and protecting the denizens of planet Hillys from both the invaders and from the terrorist organization known as the IRIS Network. At least, that's what he wants people to believe. In reality, the IRIS Network is a resistance movement dedicated to exposing the truth: that Kehck and his Alpha Sections are aiding the DomZ in their attempt to harvest everyone on the planet, just as they have done across hundreds of worlds. Those abducted are transported to the moon where they are sucked dry of all their fluids so that Kehck and his master, the DomZ Priest, may live longer. Throughout the game Kehck uses his Propaganda Machine to urge the people of Hillys to enlist in the Alpha Sections, knowing full well that they'll be slowly converted by the DomZ into monstrous grotesqueries to act as his army of mooks. When the protagonist, Jade, manages to start exposing the truth about the Alpha Sections, Kehck responds by kidnapping the war orphans Jade's adopted for he and his boss to feed on. He also hooks up Jade's Honorary Uncle/Parental Substitute, Pey'j, into a torture machine for three weeks. This eventually ends up killing Pey'j and he only manages to recover thanks to Jade's newly manifested healing powers. Unlike the DomZ Priest who needs to feed on planets to survive, or the other Alpha Sections soldiers who have been turned into monsters, Kehck is completely human and isn't in any danger of dying. He's just a selfish man who wants to live a little bit longer and is willing to wipe out entire planets to do so. Even as he's dying he remains completely unrepentant about his deeds, mocking Jade about how everyone she loved is already dead, before, with his final breath, saying a prayer for evil to overcome good.

edited 20th Nov '13 3:55:37 PM by occasionalexister

So a while back, the entries for Batman: The Brave and the Bold came up with 3 votes to burn them (Ambar, Paireon, and Idisagree) but no one else commented. I don't know if those votes still count, but I also vote to burn TBATB. The whole show is a tribute to the Silver Age, I highly doubt it has C Ms.

Sounds good to moi.

Burn away. If anyone wants to defend it, let them come here. Can you writeup The Batman version of Mister J?

Hmm, well his crimes are here. I'll try and see if I can form a writeup, but if not, someone else can.

If we could get through the top three on my list this weekend, that'd be great. Then I can start tackling Western Animation.

Somebody tried listing Gorr the God-Butcher, not on the YMMV page for The Mighty Thor, but on the character sheet. I've burned it—Gorr doesn't qualify.

any further thoughts on Kazuo Kiriyama from the Film version of Battle Royale alone?

I actually don't remember anyone tallying the results of the previous vote, but I'll put in mine as yes.

I request that Teppei Houjou be re-opened for examination. I have some rather damning evidence regarding his crimes.

Although abusiveness alone doesn't qualify, its how he does it that makes viewers sick to their stomachs. Be warned, as the details are sickening to read.

1. In Tatagoroshi-hen, there's evidence indicating that he raped Satako (11 or 12 years old) and is thus a pedophile. The scenario regarding Satako's breakdown (VN and manga version, dealing with her and Rena's behaviour) matches the profile of a rape case. There's also a really ominous screen regarding child abuse with Satako's image in it with a Scare Chord playing when sexual abuse flashes. This one alone is damning since he along with Kinzo are the only people in When They Cry that are rapists. Note: Its a core rule for a R7 work that rapists are irredeemable.

2. In Minagoroshi-hen (VN version only IIRC), we find out that Teppei forces Satako to strip naked for use as a "pet" or a "human table".

3. Psychological torture (Minagoroshi-hen, all versions)

4. In Minagoroshi-hen (VN version only), its revealed that in a Tatagoroshi-hen type kaekra, he murders Rika for kicks.

With all this evidence, Teppei passes the moral agency requirement and the completely unsympathetic requirement. Heck, the only reason the Big Bad doesn't have Teppei killed in Tatagoroshi-hen kaekras is because his being marked by the police would bring unwanted attention to the clinic. In the PS 2 exclusive chapter "Miotsuki-hen", she actually does have the Yaminu murder him. Its speaks volumes when even the Big Bad thinks he's scum.

On a side note, Teppei is also known as the biggest Scrappy in the When They Cry franchise. The hate and vitriol he gets is to the point where in a series strongly against violent solutions and vigilante action that his deaths are met with cheers in a form of Moral Myopia. In a recent Higurashi character poll, Teppei was the only major character to not even get a single vote.

This is exactly what we needed to know. We just need to rewrite him now. The original entry just said "he abuses kids"

Can you help with the rest of the When They Cry page?

I can say with certainty that until R7 does the next instalment of When They Cry (likely starting summer 2014), that once we add in Teppei and the workers at the evil orphanage (they're nearly as bad as their boss), we have 100% completion of all the C Ms in the series. The tricky part about When They Cry is that R7 is very fond of subverting CM, with stuff like Beatrice acting as one as part of a Zero-Approval Gambit.

On a side note, seems Kyubey has lost all sympathy from the fanbase after the events of Puella Magi Madoka Magica The Movie Rebellion. In short, it and the Incubators use a Lotus-Eater Machine like device to torture and Mind Rape Homura to bring back the Witch system. It's motive: simply to spite Madoka, meaning that the Utilitarism excuse no longer applies. Needless to say, Homura's retribution against the ENTIRE Incubator race gets seen as either Pay Evil unto Evil or Kick The Son Of A Bitch by the fan base.

edited 20th Nov '13 10:22:16 PM by magnum12

We need rewrites though. The entries there are inadequate.

Moreover, what the fanbase thinks has little bearing on our judgment here. If you do want to make a case for movie!Kyubei, feel free

Dear lord... but make sure to do a thorough overhaul of the original entry like Lighty originally said.

Maybe... Write a concise, yet thorough explanation on Kyubey and we'll see what we can do, especially since Kyubey hasn't been considered as one until recently.

With the concensus to keep, I'll add the rewrites for Anubis and RepliCarter from Stargate SG-1 to the edit thread.

Mephisto was recently added to Ghost Rider, but only mentions his reputation and not his actions. Did it go through the thread?

Age of Apocalypse:

• Complete Monster: Apocalypse himself is one of these in this story, having destroyed most of Asia and Russia and committed mass genocide in North America. Though Holocaust (as the name would suggest) is hinted at being even worse.
  • Apocalypse is a Complete Monster in normal continuity; the point of the cross-over is what Apocalypse would be able to do unchecked by Xavier's X-Men (it's strongly implied that Magneto's X-Men were never as effective under his leadership and this in turn paved the way for Apocalypse's rise). However, Dark Beast is a good example of a character who is a hero in normal continuity who is an absolute Complete Monster in AoA. It's shown that even other villains are creeped out by the sheer joy the Dark Beast takes in conducting experiments on live subjects, including both humans and mutants.
    • Point of order: The only reason Apocalypse rules in this reality is because the psychic backlash from Xavier's death awakened him 20 years early. He "realized" Mutants were coming along faster than expected (he didn't know the mutant battle was conducted by people from the future), so he made his move long before the world was ready for him.

Thread mode aside, I know enough about Apocalypse to know he qualifies. Do Holocaust and Dark Beast qualify in this storyline, though?

I'd like to nominate the villain from Highlander III: The Sorceror, Kane. He's as bad as the Kurgan with not an ounce of remorse or redemption. He's introduced massacring a village and kills Connor's second mentor in Japan, either rapes or eats a prostitute, kills one of his associates because he apparently just felt like it after sending the other one to do his dirty work, promises to rape Connor's love interest and kidnaps his son among more petty acts of cruelty.

edited 21st Nov '13 6:49:24 AM by Morgenthaler

Has he been brought up yet: Unalaq from Legend of Korra. Cons:

• Might be a Knight Templar or Well-Intentioned Extremist. His stated goal is restoring a spiritual age.
• Has children and a wife
• No on-screen kills (explicit or implicit) until after he's fused with an embodiment of chaos and destruction

Pros:

• He chose to free (and fuse with) an embodiment of chaos and destruction. I figure we can't really count his actions after that, since that's probably more the spirit's influence than his. Even so, he willingly allowed it to happen knowing it would be The End of the World as We Know It and could very well kill all humans.
• Those children he has? After they made a Heel–Face Turn they didn't even understand why people thought they might be sad their father died. He also left one of them to die to further his plans, and wanted the other to keep doing exactly what got the first one wounded.
• In the past, he set his brother up (by paying barbarians to attack their village to provoke a response) leading to his brother's exile so Unalaq could become chief.
• Later on, he tries his brother for an attempt on his own life (which his brother had no part on), and forces the judge to find him guilty. The only reason he doesn't have his brother killed is so he can manipulate the Avatar.
• Threatens to kill the soul of a child as a bargaining chip, and while he doesn't do it (because he got what he wanted), her spirit was still doomed to wander around in the Fog of Lost Spirits as a direct result of it.
• By the end, it seems like his goal was less "an age of spirits" and more "an age of spirits that I will rule." He does explicitly say he plans to be in charge (though that may have been fusion with Vaatu).

For me, the biggest question is whether he's a Knight Templar who believes his cause is helping the world or if he's a power hungry megalomaniac who sees the spirits as the best way for him to get power.

One of your pros kind of nullfies one of the cons. Specifically, the fact that he has children but he left one of them to die so he can get what he wants.

Your descriptions remind me of Ultimate Reed Richards, somehow.

edited 21st Nov '13 7:05:02 AM by despoa