During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. " to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
I have returned from Endgame. People cheered. People were silent.
I can't answer any questions till morning, because it's late and I'm trying to compose myself.
Edited by Beast on Apr 25th 2019 at 11:43:35 AM
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."Hey guys, i just got back from seeing Avengers Endgame. It was amazing and emotional. Feel free to PM if you want to ask me if anybody counts from the film.
Ootakemaru and Robert.
To everyone I missed.
I wonder if there was ever a time you actually felt bad for a CM or a possible CM candidate? That's a weird thing to think about since we should never feel bad for them.
"Are you the devil?" "Don't compare to me to those small fry" - MirI felt Bad for Hunter Zoloman from the Flash Tv show when his backstory was revealed.
Adam Tauras from RWBY...an Abusive, sadistic, Genocidal, narcissistic BASTARD for certain. But his FE mixed with his Fallen Hero past. And the fact he couldn't Accept that he was the one who Ruined his own life, and his Death scenehttps://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dijRhX9ANcU all Made him Surprisingly Pitable. For me at least.
There's also Jerome Valeksa from Gotham Who's a sadistic Monster for certain, Aside from a heavily Abusive background, Season 4 Reveals it went even further then that- https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3nU45-hVqsM.
Still dosent make Him less of a CM. But man....
Things are really about to get Fun around hereSo, Miraculous is okay, but he won't be active on the thread for a few days (he gave me permission to tell everyone). He let me know from his university's wi-fi, as his own wi-fi and phone connection were knocked out by...well by this. And judging by that article, he's LUCKY he only lost his phone connection
Edited by ACW on Apr 26th 2019 at 4:31:11 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM DraftsHope Mir is okay.
Things are really about to get Fun around hereYes to Robert BTW.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Draftsto King Robert.
So sorry to hear about Mir, thoughts and prayers to all those people caught in the disaster.
Damn, I really hope Mir is ok.
Watch me destroying my countryBTW, this isn't a spoiler, but do a Google search for Thanks and click on the Gauntlet
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM DraftsYes to Ootakemaru and Robert.
My thoughts and prayers are with Mir.
Welcome to the world of greatest media!I hope Miraclous and everyone around him is okay. I'd make a pun about his handle but that'd be in bad taste considering how bad the situation really is.
I guess I'm ready for Endgame P'M's.
Edited by Beast on Apr 26th 2019 at 7:33:26 AM
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."My condolences for Mir... Hopefully he's okay.
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."I hope Miraclous is okay.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup threadHas anyone done a proposal for Nimue from Hellboy (2019) yet?
Speaking of Nimue, I think there's a typo in her entry:
- Complete Monster: Nimue is the Queen of Blood, and is also also known as Vivienne or The Lady Of The Lake. Once a mighty sorceress who betrayed the great Wizard Merlin and imprisoned him to live eternally in his own grave, Nimue was imprisoned for 1,500 years by the witches of Britain. Upon her revival to lead the Wild Hunt, Nimue destroys the other witches of Britain and sets about marshaling an army of the Fae. When one ambassador comes to her to say his king will stand with her, Nimue forces him to murder his king, come out his heart and forge her a new crown with it. Nimue launches vicious purges to ensure there is no threat to her rule, intending to exterminate humanity to the last man. When defeated and being dragged to hell by the witches she'd murdered, Nimue spitefully tears out Hellboy's heart to ensure she won't face damnation alone.
Lighty's got it.
Whoops, you are correct. That should be CUT out his heart. Let me request the fix.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM DraftsSpeaking of typos:
- Skullmaster was always a terrifying villain whenever he appeared. Skullmaster overthrew his previous master and took control of his subterranean kingdom from where he plots world domination. Skullmaster is a sadist, reveling in physical and psychological torture, and engages in both short term brutality and long term gambits. One of his most vile acts was vowing to save an ancient civilization from sinking beneath the sea, lying about it and trapping their souls as his slaves before in present day, sending them after Max's head "attached to the body or not." Responsible for the deaths of multiple heroes throughout the story, Skullmaster even attempted to blackmail Max for his mentor and friend Virgil's life by surrendering his magical cap. When Max turned it over, Skullmaster brutally killed Virgil anyways.
Also, after killing Virgil, should we put in a You Have Outlived Your Usefulness, since he killed Warmonger shortly after?
Let me de-pothole and clean it up a bit:
- Skullmaster overthrew his previous master and took control of his subterranean kingdom from where he plots world domination. Skullmaster is a sadist, reveling in physical and psychological torture, and engages in both short term brutality and long term gambits. One of his most vile acts was vowing to save an ancient civilization from sinking beneath the sea, lying about it and trapping their souls as his slaves, in the present sending them after Max's head, "attached to the body or not." Responsible for the deaths of multiple heroes throughout the story, Skullmaster even attempted to blackmail Max for his mentor and friend Virgil's life by surrendering his magical cap. When Max turned it over, Skullmaster brutally killed Virgil, killing Warmonger soon after.
Also:
- Marvel's Spider-Man: The City that Never Sleeps: Hammerhead is a sadistic Maggia don who yearns for the "good old days" where mobsters like him ruled New York City with an iron fist, and the police knew to look the other way. When Sable International leaves their dangerous technology behind after the Devil's Breath incident, Hammerhead arms his men with as much as he can find and tears up the streets of New York with a brutal gang war against the other Maggia families so he can seize power from them, all the while attempting to have numerous civilians killed for crossing him. When Spider-Man and his cop ally Yuri Watanabe attempt to stop him, he successfully provokes Yuri into getting fired for crossing moral boundaries in her crusade against the Maggia by forcing her to watch him murder her fellow officers one by one, and slaughtering a bunch of other cops while stealing the dangerous Project Olympus armor. After securing the armor, he has the Maggia dons slowly drowned in cement and tries to broadcast their deaths across the city to scare it's population into submission. When that fails, he goes into hiding and has himself converted into a Cyborg monstrosity while coercing an Oscorp scientist into helping upgrade his men with cybernetic enhancements by threatening to kill him, completely uncaring when some of his men would die due to flaws in the procedure. When he resurfaces, he kidnaps Silver Sable and has his men torture her with a power drill until she gives him the most dangerous Sable Tech in her arsenal.
That's one of those that got a rewrite with this current week's batch (see Spider-Man (PS4)), so that's fine.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM DraftsBtw, Just a note...I'm gonna do an EP and rewrite on this dude from Heaven's Lost Property at a later future:
"Minos, the master of Synapse, refers to humans as "downers" and "bugs". He also beats Nymph whenever she fails her orders (or when he feels like it) and constantly threatens to destroy her. It's likely that he also treats the other angeloids that way, threatening destruction if they don't provide entertainment for him. This "entertainment" includes such things as ordering Ikaros to annihilate the Tower of Babylon and the surrounding city, which would kill countless people, and placing a bomb around Nymph's neck, triggered to explode if she again failed to bring Ikaros back to Synapse. The worst personal and petty thing he did was probably the time he ordered Nymph to call on her pet bird and prove her loyalty to him by crushing it to death. After she did so, he stomped her face into the ground while laughing about how "That was pretty fun. I'll save scrapping you until next time." Nymph goes on to thank him for not destroying her, which in all those cases, can easily be interpreted as "Thank you for not destroying me today." He does all this while smiling evilly the entire time, and does these sorts of things after the series fully establishes that the angeloids have feelings and emotions despite their artificial natures. Both of the angeloids in question cry their hearts out after recalling what they were ordered to do. The sections that have him in it are when the plot shows its dark and serious side."
Now, the writeup is actually pretty decent. (I believe Lighty did it and this is understandable because he was written before EP existed). But I have a feeling that the writeup itself? Kind of glosses his much more heinous crimes after skimming the Heaven's Lost Property wiki page of him. This is going to be one of my future EP at a later time just like Scraggle will do TAO at a later future. I've already add it on my to-do list so yep.
Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Apr 26th 2019 at 9:24:21 PM
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."So, I am kind of confused as to how the Complete Monster operates in Fan Works. The description on the Fan Works page seems to imply that you either need an OC villain who is worse than villains from the original or you need a character to be rewritten into being far worse than in the original. But where does that leave villains who are Complete Monster both in the original work and the fan story? Because I see quite a few of those while browsing through the examples.
Apathy is Death. Worse than Death, because at least a rotting corpse feeds beasts and insects.
@Erazor: Given that it's again written by Shiro Amano and he's no stranger to Adaptational Villainy for the Big Bads, it wouldn't surprise me if Master Xehanort gets hit with it (we have no BBS or 3D manga adaptations, so Amano might feel free to do whatever with the character). On the other hand, my upvoted manga proposals might get the ax if anything mitigating for Ansem and Xemnas gets adapted...
Edited by ANewMan on Apr 26th 2019 at 8:40:59 AM