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Born demons, thought we don't have much of a explanation. Said this, the duo stand out as bad even by demon standards.

Do any of the other demons show any noble traits?

Are their are any standards or taboos for their race that they break?

To M&M

to the Blaster Knuckle duo unless the other demons have some noble traits.

Abstaining on those two until I get more info on agency.

Just a reminder that the majority up-voted Azog from the Hobbit film trilogy despite the fact no orc was ever shown to have noble traits in any of Tolkien's works. We've kind of set the standard to assume moral agency unless it's specifically pointed out as not having it. By other examples alone, we got really lax with moral agency issues, so starting back up now would be rather hypocritical.

Edited by LoreDeluxe on Feb 28th 2019 at 7:35:53 AM

Yeah. I'm fine with Kaz's examples, honestly.

Yea... I think I'm gonna say yes to Kaz's examples at the end of the day. I mean, we voted up Goblin Lord from Goblin Slayer despite there is an Always Chaotic Evil issue plaguing his race so I'm cool with them going up.

I'm fine with them as well.

Yes to Kaz's two.

Edited by Bullman on Feb 28th 2019 at 10:14:58 AM

Ah, Azog...now THAT was a divisive debate

Anyway, slight rewrites, mainly to include the episode links and de-pothole as necessary:

• The Outer Limits (1995):
  • Wayne Haas, from season 1's "Living Hell", is a vicious murderer who targets women. Several years before, he had a neural transmitter installed in his brain which inadvertently allows Haas to share his thoughts with any person who possesses the same implant, although Haas is mistakenly believed to have since died. He's first shown chasing a woman through the woods and killing her, before deciding to play around with the corpse when he notices his "audience," the episode's protagonist Ben Kohler. He later hires a prostitute, and, for fun, forces Bento witness how he gruesomely stabs her to death in his bathtub. When Ben investigates Haas's apartment with the doctor responsible for the implant, Haas kidnaps her to cut out her brain and leaves Ben behind to take the blame for the other women the police claim he murdered over the previous months.
  • Karl Rademacher, from season 5's "Tribunal", during The Holocaust, was the SS commandant of an Auschwitz subcamp made up to look like a "model" camp for inspections by the Red Cross. When they leave, he usually has the prisoners gassed by the hundreds. The episode opens in 1944 as Rademacher makes his daily rounds to select a prisoner to execute in front of the rest, which he considers "the only joy I get from this miserable job". When he selects a random man, the wife begs him not to, so he selects her instead and shoots her in front of her husband and daughter, later having the child gassed to death. He gives instructions to the prisoners to write letters to their relatives to tell them how wonderful they have it there. When one man objects, Rademacher orders him sent outside and shot, before amending the order so he can personally shoot the prisoner. After the war this unrepentant war criminal lives incognito for many decades in the United States. Rademacher's cruelty and brutality ultimately becomes his own doom when, thanks to a Time Travel device, he is sent back to his own camp dressed up as an inmate. When his younger version runs into him, he demands that the rowdy old man beg for his life before he kills his older self for being Jewish.
  • Season 5's finale "Better Luck Next Time", which continues the story from the season's "Ripper", has two alien serial killers who have been living on earth for centuries, stealing host bodies and using them to commit murder after murder for amusement and to alleviate boredom. Detectives Terri and Girard end up each working with an alien, both claiming they are officers sent to hunt down the killer. At the end, the truth is revealed: the two are partners in crime and have been playing the officers for fun with the only excuse being how bored they are as immortals. The two have been spending centuries playing their games and corrupting good people into killing their friends and partners out of paranoia; they plan to hijack Terri's body after she mortally wounds Girard and use her police connections to have even more fun. When Terri and her dying partner mortally wound both killers' host bodies, Terri opts to kill herself to prevent them from stealing her body, knowing they can't survive long without hosts and unwilling to allow them to continue their rampage.

BTW, unsure on Kaz's second 2 examples, but yes on the one from the Jackie Chan movie; I think that makes 4 from a Chan movie (City Hunter, Tuxedo, Forbidden Kingdom).

And actually make that 5; forgot about Police Story 2.

Sure to Kaz's examples.

I heard about Azog from looking up past discussions for fun......that was intersting...

Edited by miraculous on Feb 28th 2019 at 8:46:03 AM

to the Blaster Knuckle duo.

So it's been two weeks since we got the release of Happy Death Day 2U, once again brought to us by the good folks at Blumhouse, which given The Stinger for this movie, I'm beginning to suspect the are setting something up with some of their movies.

The film serves as an Immediate Sequel were our protagonist Tree was seemingly rescued from living in a time loop and learns the origins of this loop from her boyfriends roommate Ryan. Ryan and his band of nerds have been working on a device that can affect the space time continuum and their experiments are why the day kept resetting. The dean intends to put a plug in these plans when the device cost the college to much money and power. After the Starter Villain (an alternate version of Ryan) is foiled from destroying the project completely, Tree is blasted not only back in time, but to another dimension.

This new universe is almost exactly the same as Tree's...only she was never in an affair with Dr. Greg Butler, her mother is still alive, the other Halloween movies never happened, and Freddy is an ancient entity trying to manifest itself into the real world...and Tree's boyfriend Carter is now dating her friend Danielle. Despite that one setback (two of we count being stuck in a loop) Tree and her friends have to work on an alternate version of the device to stop the loops and Tree starts to wonder if she wants to go back to her world or stay in this seemingly better one...unfortunately for her she learns there's a new killer on the block.

First things first, John Tombs isn't going anywhere. He doesn't do nothing to add to his rapsheet though and doesn't even get any lines. Lori Spengler returns...technically. But this Lori is as far from the CM trope as she can get. She's a cinnamon roll in this film. Our new villain might have a chance, if spree killers are to be held in a different standard than serial killers.

Who's the new killer ? What does he do ?

Dr. Gregory Butler, who in the first film was a dashing but arrogant and douchey doctor and medical professor at Tree's college. In both the first films universe and the second, he is cheating on his loving wife with his students; namely Tree in the first movie before her character development kicks in and she breaks things off with him telling him to at least have the guts to leave his wife. But his relationship with Tree in that universe serves as the motivations for the first movies killer Lori, who is jealous of Tree and Butler's relationship. The loop seemingly breaks with Tree killing Lori and getting her life back on track...and then the second movie happens with Tree ending up in an alternate universe where she has to go through a very different version of the first films events.

In the second universe he is having his affair with Lori and isn't treating her right. Not only is Tree not dating him, but he doesn't even know her. He also ends up becoming a spree killer. We find out his wife found out about his affair so the two decide to work together to start a killing spree to eliminate Lori. The time loops are constant, with Butler attempting to set John Tombs loose like Lori did in the first film, but because Tomb's gets stopped in advance, Butler goes about carrying on with Tombs' killing spree to kill anyone in the vicinity to cover it up.

While Tree is trying to help her new friends recreate the device to send her back to her universe, she constantly has to kill herself so that they say can reset and stop the killing spree early. All the while having to remember the equations to get the device running. Due to finding her life a little better and finding out the killer isn't after her specifically, Tree has a back and forth with her conscience over wether or not she even wants to interfere or even go back to her own world. But in one of the loops she doesn't interfere, she finds out on the news the killing spree is still unfolding and Carter is one of the victims when he tried to stop it himself.

In the final loop, Tree and Carter arrive at the hospital mid killing spree to save Lori. Tree outs the killer as Butler and his motivations. Butler reveals his wife as his accomplice, before killing her in cold blood and seemingly killing Lori. Butler chases Tree down to an exam room where she subdues him with a chair and a giant magnetic device and kills him with a screwdriver. Tree makes good with Lori and ultimately returns to her own world where Lori is still evil and dead, and Butler is not as evil and still alive. She and her friends are also recruited by a government agency as part of a Sequel Hook.

Redeeming Qualities or Freudian Excuse ?

Diddly fucking squat.

Even his "good" counterpart is a smug and arrogant jackass whose only apparent interest in relationships is appearances and sex, and shamelessly cheats on his wife for aging.

In the alternate universe, his affair is with Lori and when caught decides to go on a massacre to cover the whole thing up. He's still the same prick as he was in the first movie/universe, it's just now he's a spiteful murderer. And about his wife ? This one not only cheats on her but uses her as an accomplice before killing her with no hesitation.

Heinous by the standards of the story ?

He's the reason why I previously asked if spree killers are held by the same standard as serial killers or not. John Tombs is so far the only CM in these movies and he's got an established history of a Serial Killer with a confirmed bodycount of six. Both Lori and Butler were not serial killers with Lori only planning to kill Tree in the first movie and only kills two other people.

Lori in the first is at least motivated by feeling yandre towards Butler, and the reason she isn't heinous enough is that it's not clear for sure if she planned for John Tombs to kill more people when she set him loose. Butler in the second on the other hand, seemed to not only plan for Tombs to go on a big killing spree upon release, but he carried out that same rampage himself when Tombs is constantly incapacitated.

As a result Butler ends up with the total/attempted bodycount of five people in all the loops, a head under Tombs' confirmed bodycount. And if the news report is any indication, the hospital massacre may have had more victims had Tree not intervened. Even if that was not the case, he may have get some personal points for his murder of his girlfriend and wife, although if anything that just adds to how much of a shitbag he is.

The film does take a bit of a Genre Shift from the slasher scene and is more in line with a sci fi dramedy. It's Lighter and Softer in terms of comedy but still takes things seriously other than Tree's suicide montage being played for dark laughs. Not sure if that adds to takes away from anything.

Since this is near midnight in my country... Time to discuss Jump Force. There's two candidates that me and Ultimate will bring (Mir resigned due to him being busy so I'll give Ultimate a greenlight). And now I'll start with the anti-EP with one of the candidate. Wonderful but I'll get to my reason why I decided to do an Anti-EP of this candidate. Without further ado, let's begin

What's the Work

Jump Force is a 2019 fighting video game that tells us about the crossover with Shonen Jump characters that got their worlds merged together with the real world (Because why not?) and as the result of the universe collide together, the Shonen Jump heroes joined the organization known as "Jump Force" to save the world together from the imminent danger.

See here's the thing, humans in the real world were attacked by evil humanoids known as Venoms which was revealed to be an army of mind-controlled humans controlled by the original villains of this game, Kane and Galena. Now, Kane definitely doesn't count due to his Freudian Excuse and his Heroic Sacrifice at the end. But Galena? I think she's a different story.

Who is She/What Has She Done

Alright, so our girl here, Galena, is actually one of the main antagonists in the game and is essentially Kane's partners-in-crime at first glance. She makes herself standout at first due to her seemingly behind the corruption of innocent people or other Venoms who plagued Planet Namek and also she is also responsible for Vegeta corruption. How do we know this? Because Piccolo senses some disturbance regarding Planet Namek and saw a mysterious woman during their travel and the woman is none other than Galena herself.

Oh! And not only that, like Kane, she also manipulates and corrupts other Shonen Jump heroes such as Ryo Saeba in Hong Kong or also manipulating Rukia under the false pretense that she saw a fake Ichigo corrupted by the Venoms. And she also manipulate both Ichigo and Piccolo to fight against the main hero while she also manipulates Asta and Zoro too during their second expedition at Planet Namek as far as I recall while Galena enjoyed it in the distance.

Oh! And not only that, she also create a doppelanger of herself and named her Angela so that she could easily manipulate Sanji—considered that she's a womanizer, that's not surprising in the slightest—and said doppelanger acts as a Damsel in Distress while it was revealed that she tries to destroy the Jump Force base inside out which caused the research facility getting destroyed and Sanji getting almost framed (But thanks to Light I guess, Sanji's name has been cleared).

Oh! And not only that, it was also revealed that she manipulates Kane to release all of the hatred in his heart so that he could destroy the world and remake it in his own image. This is due to Kane used to be a hero who lost his loved ones due to the justice that he uphelds but Galena acts as his corrupting influence.

During the heroes raid in San Francisco to capture Galena, we then got revealed what's Galena's motivation on causing destruction: It's because she was bored to see the real world is at peace and she wants to let people's negative desires out so that they could spread more misery which Galena enjoys to see and it was also revealed that she also works with a mysterious figure by fusing both real world and Jump World so that she could rule with him as gods.

During the final fight, she betrays Kane by beating him up and then try to destroy him and kicks Sanji while taunting him that she can't attack a woman. It was also revealed that as a last resort, she plays the Sadistic Game of Cat and Mouse with the Jump Heroes by sending her replicas across the world and threatens to destroy it. Fortunately in her last moments, she was backstabbed by the mysterious figure I mentioned before and she ended up killed once and for all.

Heinous Standard

Okay, so in this game standard. Yes, the mysterious figure is responsible for fusing the Jump World and the Real World altogether so that he could rule them as a god and he will be E Pd soon by Ultimate Demon Beast. Not only that, Kane also tries to destroy the whole world and remake it in his own image but doesn't count for plethora of reasons. Galena however, well... She willingly tries to participate in the mysterious figure's schemes, corrupts some of the heroes, destroying a part of a headquarters, tries to play a sadistic game of cat and mouse towards the heroes for her own amusement and intends to remake the world so that she could cause more misery and mayhem... Yea, I think she makes it. Easy keep right? Well, no actually.

Freudian Excuse/Mitigating Factors

Now, here's the thing that why probably you guys said no. And that's Galena's loyalty with the mysterious figure. And I won't sugarcoat his name. The mysterious figure is actually named Prometheus and Galena seems a bit loyal on him. Case in point that she wants to become a goddess of the real world and rule the world together with Prometheus once the two worlds are merged. And when Prometheus backstabs Galena, she becomes angered at Prometheus's betrayal. Now, I'm feeling that the loyalty is kind of a mitigating factor to me due to there's one scene saying "Prometheus, are you okay?" after Prometheus is seemingly defeated during the first fight against the hero but I don't know about this as her interaction are seemingly limited to that and like I said, she is seemingly pissed when Prometheus betrays her. But the real kicker why I don't think Galena qualifies for me is that I feel that she has no intention to betray Prometheus but I'm unsure if she mostly saw him as the power that could enable her to rule as a god or a genuine companion so yeah...

Final Verdict

In the end, I will say no to this candidate due to her loyalty. Man, it's rather disappointing to see a potential female CM (And an attractive one at that) getting a bit disqualified due to a tiny mitigating factor but oh well... Can't blame em. But if you thought that this isn't mitigating, then be my guest. I'll let Ultimate handle the rest.

Oh! For those who wondering if Shonen Jump approved CM counts at all in this game? I think the only guy who uses his potential is Frieza who is introduced by attacking New York, attacking Paris with his copy a bit too excessively and has an intention to wipe the planet Earth with his clone while working together with Galena and Kane but I'm unsure if he counts due to his plan is seemingly eclipsed with Galena, Kane and Prometheus. The rest? None of them close to the heinous bar especially Aizen, DIO and Light but I might gonna EP Light as an MB but we'll see.

Butler
Galena

Butler

5 murders vs. 6? I'll give a yes to the doctor.

Is Galena actually loyal or just a Psycho Supporter?

Also, a bit off topic, but looking at the character page...is Goku's first name (last name American style) actually "Son"? Also, One Piece...Luffy looks too goofy (and has too goofy a name) to be a badass IMO.

Butler.

Yeah their part of the son family.

You know what? Butler is so slimy that I can’t vote nay to him in good conscience. But nay to galena sadly.

ACW: Son is their family name.

@ACW Not sure about that. I might gonna re-check the scene but as for now, I don't know...

And I'll have to admit that the game is kind of a wasted potential. They left Dakki, Korosensei, Chitoge, Medaka, Kumagawa, Neuro and Oga Tatsumi from the main rooster... Boo! But even then, seems that the game isn't that polished pretty well despite some people said its a fun VS game.

Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Mar 1st 2019 at 12:30:06 AM

Yes to Butler but no to Galena.

Yeah, that's the thing. If it actually IS loyalty, then she's a no. If it's like a Bellatrix-Voldemort thing, that's different.

Butler.

Just because a work is a comedy, doesn't mean it can't have a CM.

For example Duxton Chevalie from Mr. Accident who was confirmed on this threat before. That movie is a straight comedy, but that guy is psychopathic murderer played straight.

Or heck, Katz from Courage the Cowardly Dog.