Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

to Crispian and Ies Braddell.

to Majora.

I was inclined to upvote Ulfric, but due to the reasons listed, I'll say to him. I'm not a lover of fan fics in general (I much prefer fan art) because of the quality of writing and how nuts folks can go with characterisation and story. I have no problem with aspiring writers stretching their muscles, but lordy Lou, some folks go way too far.

Most shocking MEH? That's a tough one... most of the examples I can think of come from characters who don't qualify (Hugo Strange's Protocol 10, Ozymandias' plan, Kyubey's... everything). Maybe the Red Wedding? HBO's Walder Frey counts, even if the book version doesn't. Pong Krell's Thanatos Gambit comes to mind as well.

Lotso Huggin' Bear leaving Andy's toys to die. Toy Story was such a lighthearted and idealistic setting so I just knew the first time I watched it that Lotso would see the error of his ways, the movie already was vastly darker than the other two, what with having a brutal dictator who is legitimately threatening but that incinerator scene took it Up To Eleven.

Yeah, that was pretty brutal.

So regarding the new fanfic rule; I practice writing via fanfic and I had this story I've been working on for a while, and have two CM's in mind for it, that are CM's in canon. Here's the thing, the story ive been writing is a mass crossover between five horror films four disney channel shows; one the themes I was going for in this fanfic was Genre Shift and Cerebus Syndrome and somthing I've acutally been working for years. So Regarding the new rule, I take it I probably shouldn't bring up my two examples when I finish the work ?

edited 9th May '16 2:55:22 PM by Beast

58325: "HAHAHA! Well, well, now that is beautiful. See? Look Dodoria, Zarbon, look at the fireworks, aren't they splendid!? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!"

Most shocking Moral Event Horizon ? The discovery of the Dark Room and Mark Jefferson masterminding it. Arguably the fact that Kate Marsh was one of Jefferson's victims and he tried to goad her into killing herself. After which he feign's remorse; faking remorse is worse then having none at all.

Regarding some of the Fan Works entries, Isabella from Snapped was indeed voted cut, but she was only removed from the sandbox. The same goes for a handful of the examples Scraggle listed here.

EDIT: Speaking of Fan Works, there are two entries for Blinky Bill fanfics. Now I know nothing about Blinky Bill, but apparently it's a children's cartoon about an anthropomorphic koala. I'm skeptical if that's a setting conducive to having a CM.

edited 9th May '16 3:48:48 PM by TVRulezAgain

Shoot. Just accidentally erased my MEH post. I had four, but I'll shorten them for now and elaborate if anyone's curious.

• Hannibal killing who he kills early in Season 2 is the point where he changes from a Villain Protagonist Noble Demon into the actual Big Bad for me. Up till then most of his victims are unsympathetic ( or in the case of the two who aren't, Just Hiding) and he's got enough Pet the Dog to kinda/sorta tolerate all his other awful crap.

• Chayton doing what he does at the end of 3x05 in Banshee, for pretty similar reasons, and because of how major/sympathetic the victim is.

• Not a show I love, but Spike's attempted rape late in Buffy was certainly shocking. Made worse when the show tries to redeem him for it.

• Obscure one: Panther's son from that one Christopher Priest Black Panther story set in the future. In a run full of mostly Noble Demons (minus Achebe, who might actually be a CM now that I think of it; I'll think more and maybe do an effort post later), that kind of sadism really sticks out.

edited 9th May '16 4:02:46 PM by Monessi

to Breddell.

@Beast: No. Users can't propose characters from their own stories/fanfics.

I don't have any moments that really shocked me from a plot twist standpoint.

Most shocking MOE crossing? That's tough.

It's a tie between Frank killing Harmonica's brother because of how needlessly cruel it was, to the point where I started crying... and Curtis Blackburn killing Pedro, since while Pedro also killed kids, what Curtis did to him was, again, needlessly cruel and downright horrifying. The first MOE to legitimately terrify me.

I hope I'm not proposing this character so soon after I proposed Breddell, but he is from the same work, so it is realted to my last post, I'm going to propose the other character from the Star Trek point and click games. Also apparently Breddell's name was spelled differently in each game, so go figure on the exact spelling.

Who is Admiral Vlict Kenka? What has he done?

Admiral Vlict Kenka was a high ranking member of the Klingon defense force and the governor of a Klingon colony Hrakkour, which his family had governed for generations.

Recently a being known as Quetzalcoatl disguised himself as a Klingon and started to spread a pacifist philosophy among the Klingons on Hrakkour. Also important aside, yes this guy is named after the Aztec god, he came to Earth under the guise of a god and tried to teach a philosophy of self sacrifice to Aztecs, which clearly did not work, but that is not really his fault, his followers took his ideas in a bad direction on Earth.

Anyway the Klingon Empire doesn't like this and Quetzalcoatl is being hunted by Klingon security officers (Quetzalcoatl was hiding on a world in Federation space). After talking to Quetzalcoatl and passing some his tests, Kirk convinces Quetzalcoatl to come with him (Quetzalcoatl also renounces his powers and becomes a mortal.)

Anyway Admiral Vlict arrives and demands that Quetzalcoatl be turned over to him saying he is responsible for destroying all life on Hrakkour. Kirk asks how this is possible and Vlict admits he ordered everyone on Hrakkour to be killed, including his own family, because the colonists were adopting a pacifist philosophy.

Kirk is forced to turn Quetzalcoatl over to Vlict and face a clearly rigged trial on the remains of Hrakkour. Kirk speaks in Quetzalcoatl's defense and saying he should be tried in a high court, Vlict responds that Quetzalcoatl was not honorable enough to face a Klingon high court. Kirk responds that he is a warrior and Vlict amsued by this idea allows Kirk to face some tests to see if he worthy to face a high Klingon court. Kirk makes Vlict promise not to kill Quetzalcoatl while they are facing these tests and Vlict agrees.

However these tests are clearly designed to kill Kirk and company rather then anything else and Kirk states that he believes that Vlict went far beyond his orders to deal with the situation on Hrakkour and now he wants to make Quetzalcoatl into scapegoat, planning on trying and convicting him, so he will take the blame for the crime he committed, so he clearly has an interest in keeping Quetzalcoatl alive.

Anyway avoiding all the traps and dangers Vlict has set for him, Kirk manages to waken Bialbi, another powerful alien on Hrakkour . Bialbi summons Vlict and intends to punish him for his genocidal crimes, at that point Kirk can leave Vlict to die or ask that Vlict be spared, leading Bialbi to banish Vlict and not allow any Klingon vessels to go near his planet. Vlict agrees, because he doesn't have another choice, Bialbi could destroy him with a thought.

Is he heinious by the standards of the story?

I have already discussed the heinious standard of these games and the general Star Trek heinous standard in the Breddell proposal, so I think it would be interesting to talk about Klingon characters in general. Vlict has committed the single worse act I have ever seen from a Klingon villain, most Klingons have some standards and even really unsympathetic Klingons like Duras are only guilty of generic villainy. The Klingon Empire is not nearly as bad as say the Galactic Empire, so really bad Klingons can stand out. I don't the Klingon Empire supports planet wide genocide as a policy, making Vlict seem like some extreme fanatic.

We don't see Vlict destroying the planet's population, but we do see a ruined city in the back ground of the trial and it is a plot point for the mission, so that seems on camera.

You can argue how heinious he is compared to Breddell, but Breddell is his own boss and has more freedom to act, Vlict has superiors he has to answer to, which is why he was trying to blame his genocidal crimes on Quetzalcoatl. You can argue this mission is more about Quetzalcoatl then Vlict, but he was still an important part of the story, even if he was not in the game for a super long time. I think he is way worse then other Klingon villain like Kor, Kruge, Chang, etc.

I think Vlict can stand out.

Does he have Freudian Excuse or other sympathetic qualities?

He is a Klingon and they have a different moral code then humans, but again genocide seems extreme even for Klingons, most Klingons sense of honor allows for some positive traits.

Gowron and the High Council once punished a Klingon who was willing to kill an unarmed man (Quark from DS 9) in their presence with exile, so Klingons have a different moral code from humans, but still have a sense of morality.

Besides that, the guy killed his own colony and family, so no real positive qualities there.

Final Verdict?

I think he could count, though I'm not 100% sure.

edited 9th May '16 6:15:05 PM by Overlord

I remember watching the Powerpuff Girls when I was younger and what Dick Hardly did just shook me to the core. I never saw a villain be so callous especially in a cartoon.

I've proposed a number of villains from shows I watched as a kid that remain frightening and heinous to me as an adult. Queen Bansheera and Helga Von Guggen are two of them.

The Grundel from the Real Ghostbusters is a character that creeped me out as a kid and as an adult he is still creepy, his dialogue is the kind of stuff that makes your skin crawl. As an adult you can better understand what the writers were doing with the character and he seems even worse. The purpose of the character was to warn children about dangerous strangers, so they made the character as vile as they could in a cartoon setting to get that across.

edited 9th May '16 5:48:47 PM by Overlord

He's even worse in Extreme Ghostbusters, but that series is way more dark than the original as well. It has far less lighter moments in general. Even the theme song is more hardcore. That was probably the intention as is, to make it overall darker and more hardcore. It did work, at least.

Vlict

to Admiral Vlict, I think. He still sounds worse than the other guy to me, in fact - but I'm not sure if that's just a personal thing.

Vlict.

to Vlict.

So, I've got another one I want to talk about.

Who is the Falconer? What has he done?

The Falconer hails from Scott Lynch's Gentleman Bastard series. He's a Bondsmagi of Karthain who specializes in projecting his consciousness into other animals and controlling them, with a particular penchant for birds (hence the name). He's also one of the few recurring villains of the series.

The Falconer makes his first appearance in The Lies of Locke Lamora, acting as a Hired Gun for Luciano Anatolius aka Capa Raza aka The Grey King, a rebel who aims to topple Capa Barsavi and revenge himself upon the gangs and nobility of Camorr alike. The Falconer aids Capa Raza in the murders of seven of Barsavi's top henchmen, using his magic to make their executions possible. He also uses his pet scorpion hawk to murder Barsavi's daughter, Nazca, who is then shipped back to her father stuffed in a barrel of horse urine for extra humiliation.

When Raza decides to hire Locke Lamora to aid him in his scheme, the Falconer is the one who strongarms Locke into cooperating and acts as his contact with Raza. When Locke talks back to the Falconer during one of their meetings he uses his magic to torture Locke, ranting at a fair length about how people like Locke, who lack the gift of magic, have to show abject submission before him. When Locke's usefulness runs out, the Falconer uses his magic to paralyze the other three members of his gang—and keep Locke's best friend and muscle, Jean Tannen out of the picture—while they are murdered by Capa Raza's assassins. When Locke and Jean escape and, subsequently, kill Capa Raza's sisters, the Falconer hunts them down, tortures Jean, and then, using his mind control powers, tries to force Locke to murder Jean, knowing that such an act will destroy Locke. Unbeknownst to him, Locke isn't using his real name (which the Falconer needs in order to control someone) and shrugs off the spell, then knocks the Falconer out (by killing his bird to which he is mindlinked).

Locke proceeds to torture as much information about Capa Raza's plans as he can out of the Falconer, and it's at this point that we find out just how big a bastard the Falconer is. At Capa Raza's instigation, the Falconer had used his magic to ensure that no one would notice that the statues Raza provided for the Duke's largest ball are loaded with Wraithstone, a chemical compound used to "gentle" animals—ie, dissolve all semblance of thought and free will and leave them as mentally handicapped automatons. Capa Raza, with the Falconer's help, intends to release the Wraithstone at the ball, destroying the minds of the 600+ attendees, and leaving them all as little more than shells of who they used to be. The Falconer had used his mastery of names to make sure that the Duke's spymaster would not only remain oblivious to the presence of the Wraithstone, but would invite Capa Raza to the ball so he would be in a position to light the fuses. After the Falconer has told Locke all he knows, Locke cuts off his fingers and removes his tongue, then leaves him for the Duke's guards to find.

The Falconer reappears in Republic of Thieves, when his mother, Archedama Patience of Karthain, contracts Locke and Jean to help her rig an election. Jean and Locke are given a walk through Patience's memories, where we discover that the Falconer was the one who convinced the Bondsmagi's ruling council to accept Capa Raza's contract in the first place, and that he volunteered to carry out the contract in order to make sure the council would take it on (if no one volunteers, the contract is turned down). We also find out that he was one of the leaders of a small, splinter faction of magi who view the rest of humanity as tools to be exploited and used by the magi, an opinion most of the magi find abhorrent, and that the main reason for his leadership of this faction was because he hated his mother, who was a leader of the more pacifistic faction. Without Falconer's arguments, it's quite possible that no one would have agreed to Capa Raza's contract, meaning he bears an even greater responsibility for the events of the first book than previously suggested.

At the end of the third book, Falconer's mother successfully eliminates his faction. She also reveals to him that she had cast a spell on him that was meant to kill him in the event that he tried to resist torture at the hands of someone like Locke, and that it was this spell that's left him comatose for the last several years. Recovering from this, Falconer forges himself new hands from dreamsteel, and murders Eganis, the attendant who had been looking after him at his mother's instructions, railing about how the man had humiliated him by looking after him. He then tracks down his mother, and has her torn apart by a murder of crows he has taken control of, eaten alive while he watches.

As of the end of Republic of Thieves Falconer is on the loose and will likely be reappearing in the fourth book, whenever it comes out.

Are his actions heinous by the standards of the story?

Yes. The villains in the series don't pull their punches and a number of them (particularly Requin from the second book) have come up with some truly inventive tortures to inflict on their enemies. Capa Raza's attempted "gentling" of 600+ people is, however, the stand out evil act within the series thus far, and the Falconer's complicity in it goes deep. Without him Raza could never have tried to pull of his scheme, and the Falconer is less a hired agent than he is a co-conspirator, whatever his claims to the contrary. Unlike Raza, who was killed by Locke at the end of the first book, the Falconer has gone on to add to his rapsheet, and nobody we've met so far outdoes him.

Pass.

Does he have any redeeming qualities?

None that we see. Falconer has allies among his splinter faction of the Bondsmagi but nothing indicates that he is particularly friendly with them—when told of their deaths he rails at his mother for being a coward and for refusing to let the magi rule the world or plumb for darker secrets, but shows no sorrow at the deaths of his compatriots. He has no qualms about involving himself in the single worst black contract the Bondsmagi have ever taken on, and when others express moral squeamishness, is the one to argue them into it.

Pass.

Does he have a Freudian Excuse or another mitigating factor?

The Falconer utterly hates his mother. Most Bondsmagi do not give birth to magically gifted children. Falconer's birth was an aberration, and as such, he is the only Bondsmagi whose real name is known to someone other than himself—namely his mother, who gave it to him. Falconer resents and loathes Patience for this, seeing her as having power over him. His every action, from joining the splinter faction to aiding Raza is fueled by his resentment of her, and her ability to gain control over him at any moment she so chooses. When we're allowed into his head we see him constantly monologueing about his need to be free of her.

Here's the thing though—throughout Falconer's entire childhood, Patience never uses her power against him. Even when he opposes her at every turn and makes her life miserable, she never uses it. It's only when Falconer takes Raza's contract that she actually casts a spell on him, and even then she urges him to reconsider and not take the contract telling him she has had a premonition that the magi who takes the contract will not be coming back alive. Only when he laughs in her face and takes the contract, does she put the spell on him, deciding that he is a monster who cannot be saved.

Moreover, even if Falconer's hatred of Patience were remotely justified, it would only excuse his killing of her. It would not justify killing the man who had nursed him back to health, and it sure as hell offers no excuses, or even any real explanation, for his attempt to reduce 600 human beings to the level of shuffling zombies.

Pass.

Final verdict?

Falconer is the worst person in the story thus far. Maybe he'll get a redeeming quality in a future book, but I've no idea when the next one is even coming out (the last one was released in 2013). I say put him up. What say the rest of us?

Falconer.

Yes to the Falconer.

And because I know this will come up: Luciano/The Grey King/Capa Raza does not count. He has a compelling Freudian Excuse, love for his parents and sisters and is actually torn about going through with his plan. At one point he tells Locke "save your arguments. Do you really not think I've had them with myself every night of the last twenty fucking years?"

Falconer.