During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
I’m just saying that I don’t think she should be put on the Former Complete Monsters list as she was never actually put up in the first place.
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
V
The Batman: I agree that Riddler isn't close to counting. However, I genuinely saw Falcone as a candidate throughout the film. What I don't get is why offscreen villainy has to disqualify the crimes that a character commits. I suppose I could accept that he doesn't do enough to count, but I don't get why we won't consider crimes that there is a lot of evidence has been committed
It is important to think about the fact that Falcone is portrayed as the primary reason behind why Gotham is as bas as it is. In that sense, he's just as bad, crime-wise, as the Riddler. It's just that Falcone keeps his victims alive.
Even if Falcone doesn't count, I hope we can all agree that he has about as many redeeming qualities as the new Bob the Builder design. John Turturro did a good job portraying an intimidating, completely unsympathetic person, and he is worthy all the credit that he gets for doing so
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Either way, my bad.
See, Falcone being a major reason Gotham is as vile as it is gives him points for scale, but this is where the difference in resources between him and Riddler come in. Falcone has the entire city and all of its most powerful people wrapped around his finger. Riddler is a mentally ill nutcase with a few bombs, an elaborate plans and what amounts to a following of 4Chan terrorists. He kills thousands more people than Falcone ever does.
Nobody keeps.
Yeah, you might have enjoyed the character or the performance of his actor but when talking CM he's way out of his league with what's going on around him.
Rookie writter
Hi
What is the Work
Juujika no Rokunin is a manga about Shun Uruma. When he was 12 years old, he was bullied by five of his classmates, who made his life hell, in order to test how much he would endure until he committed suicide. When Uruma tells his parents and they change his school, the leader of the Bullies, Kyou Shigoku, causes the car Uruma's parents and younger brother were in to crash, killing his parents and leaving his brother in a coma. Uruma is then cared for by his grandfather, a veteran of World War II, who was a member of a squad that knew about torture. Seeing his grandson's hatred for these five monkeys, he decides to teach him everything he knows. At the age of 16, Uruma begins his hunt, making sure to torture, kill and psychologically break his bullies.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
Daichi Kuga is one of Uruma's five bullies. He is the tallest of the group and wanted to be the best Judoka in the world. He used to bother Uruma by using him as a practice dummy for his Judo keys. As he grows, Kuga not only increases in size and musculature, but also in cruelty. Using his strength, he makes life hell for his Judo partners, even forcing them to play a crude version of poker, where he breaks the losers' fingers. Besides, he forces his partners to bring girls so he can abuse them. He forced one of his teammates to burn down Uruma's house, leaving his grandfather badly injured. He also treats his girlfriend like garbage, assaulting her. When she rescues him from Uruma's torture, Kuga, with his mind damaged by the torture, thinks that Anna is Kyou, and abuses and kills her by beating her, as he has a sick obsession with Kyou, and wants to rape and kill him. And when he manages to dominate Uruma for a moment, he had planned to rape him to practice when he managed to subdue Kyou.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
The only explanation is that he was influenced by Kyou. But that doesn't justify or make it more understandable, especially for the acts he commits.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Yes. Compared to the other bullies, he is the second most vile and cruel, second only to Kyo.
Final Verdict?
Yes, I think of him as a sort of adolescent Gregor Clegane.
Hi... I'm gonna need help understanding this more: he murders his girlfriend after being driven insane by torture, I'm not quite sure we can fully ascribe that to his innate bloodlust. You mention there's a worse bully... we liked CMs to be the worst, not a second place prize holder. The main character also seems like he's handing out brutal tortures for revenge, we're going to need to discuss how that factors in to the heinous standard.
Cross-wired freak
Two questions: You say "Yes. Compared to the other bullies, he is the second most vile and cruel, second only to Kyo." but you don't go into any elaboration on Kyo, so I don;t know how he actually measures up to Kyo heinousness-wise.
Second, how cruel is the main character? If he's devoting himself to torturing and psychologically breaking people, he might be too bad for his enemies to count, so I'd like more elaboration on that.
Listen to my podcast
From 'Ell's 'eart Oi stab at ye!
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to that Bully. Ugh. What about the others? Do they have mitigating qualities/too generic?
Can we ask a bit here first?
Edited by 43110 on Mar 18th 2022 at 12:42:43 PM
Yeah, I also want to know how much he compares to the ringleader? He might be bad enough based on his own merits, but is Kyro complict or at least aware of his other crimes beyond what they did to the main character? For now, I am going to have to say no.
Edited by YobabyColin on Mar 18th 2022 at 12:47:46 PM
I agree that an elaboration on the heinous standard is needed.
Also, thanks to everyone who weighed in on my concerns about Athalie so far.
If she does end up being cut, then as a reminder: she only has an entry written in Muted so far, so that's the only entry that needs to be cut.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
From Juujika no Rokunin:
- Moral Event Horizon: Besides their horrific treatment of Uruma, each of the five bullies definitely crosses the Moral Event Horizon too far in their own way:
- For Senkouji, it’s definitely when he kidnaps and tries to kill Uruma after tricking him into believing he pulled a Heel–Face Turn and wanting to restore their old friendship before they had met Kyou. He makes it clear when he kills a stray cat he had been taken care of and saved from getting run over.
- As for Yuuga, it’s when he enslaved his girlfriend and brutalized her for an entire year.
- Madoka definitely crossed it too far when he beats and rapes Kaname just for overhearing his plans to murder Uruma at the School Festival and because he has a crush on her.
- For Kuga, it’s when he raped Anna to death, directly after she saved his life, just because he mistook her for her cousin, Kyou.
- And finally, Kyou. FOR THREE TIMES. First there’s him orchestrating the murder of Uruma’s parents and personally beating Kakeru into a coma. Then he kidnaps the little boy years later, directly after he had just woken from his coma mind you, and orders his cultists to cut off one of his legs with a chainsaw! All because Uruma lost the first round of rock-paper-scissors with Jun! He crosses it again when it’s revealed he has Kaname murdered for the penalty of her guilt-stricken brother throwing the match in Uruma’s favor.
I mean, there's a LOT going on there. I'd say Kyou may count, has according to the character page he manipulated the rest of the bullies. MAYBE Yuga for quality over quantity.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
The year as a rape toy wasn't even really focused on in the EP and if anything that's what's going to get him a spot.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Different characters, I think. The EP was for Kuga; the rape year thing was Yuuga.
Though Kuga apparently DOES have a raping-to-death.
Edited by ACW on Mar 18th 2022 at 12:54:41 PM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
Also, according to his character page, Kuga is a Serial Rapist:
“He rapes many of his female classmates and tried to do the same to Kyou when they were kids because he has a crush on him, only to slash his face as a warning NOT to do it next time.”
He seems like a yes.
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
The wifi here sucks
No to Embalmer rewrite since it's an unnecessary change, Hegel please wait till the rewrite gets approved before adding it to the drafts.
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
Shin Megami Tensei IV
To Ale.
Kuga
I've reading the manga, I legit wanted it to end before EP-ing anyone there lol. Kuga definitely passes the Heinous Standard by being a Serial Rapist even with the overall bleakness.
I'm reserving the Big Bad Kyou, by the way, dude is straight up leading a torture cult and being The Corrupter to the other villains. More resources because he is a genius instead of Kuga being...Kuga
To ACW: Yuga, he is definitely bad enough, but he dies feeling some regret for his actions. Sure, he is inmediately killed after he expresses regret because well, he did enslave his girlfriend and its too late to ask apologies,
Edited by KazuyaProta on Mar 18th 2022 at 12:11:45 PM
Watch me destroying my country
Cross-wired freak
It sounds like Kuga counts, but I want to have a re-done, fuller Ep, since it seems like a ton of information was left out, so I'm abstaining until then
Listen to my podcast
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yuuga (Serial Rapist); Kuga (year-long rapist), and the Big Bad might count.
Also, can we please get some writeups?
- The Sadist's Bible, by Nicole Cushing (Atlantis)
- Wheely (2018): Kaiser (Clown-Face)
- The Mechanisms' Once Upon a Time (In Space): King Cole (Libraryseraph)
- Dalton Greyjoy (Lighty)
- The Slave (aka The Son of Spartacus) (1962): Marcus Licinius Crassus (Lighty)
- The Sum of All Fears: Derek Olson (Lighty)
- Thomas Wayne (Ravok)
- Gunhawks vol. 1 issue #6's "Death of a Gunhawk!": Captain Warren Worth (Ravok)
- Akumaizer 3: Mezalord (Reddish)
- Marvel Knights Vol. 2 (STARCRUSHER)
- GI Joe:
- Crystal Ball (Ravok)
- Skorpian (STARCRUSHER)
Edited by ACW on Mar 18th 2022 at 1:11:21 PM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Shin Megami Tensei IV
To ACW: Yuga (the guy who turned his gf into a Sex Slave) is definitely bad enough, but he dies feeling some regret for his actions.
Sure, he is inmediately killed after he expresses said regret for a furious Shun, but his last thoughs are basically "Now I realize that I did something awful"
Edited by KazuyaProta on Mar 18th 2022 at 12:14:41 PM
Watch me destroying my country
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
Maybe I can read it and report on Kuga? It looks interesting, so I’m gonna read it either way, but I dunno if that would constitute me stealing a proposal.
Edited by MasterN on Mar 18th 2022 at 10:21:39 AM
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Wild Child
Sure.
- Wheely: Kaiser is a monstrous 18-wheeler truck and the head of a kidnapping syndicate that abducts and butchers luxury cars to sell them for parts. Setting his sights on supermodel Bella due to the high price she'd pay, Kaiser orders his goons to target her, dumping one of them into the ocean for mishandling one of his captives. Later abducting Bella personally, Kaiser gleefully attempts to crush Wheely to death when he attempts to rescue her, then knocks Bella out to sea out of spite.
I figured riddler and carmine wouldn’t qualify, did anyone already claim that penguin series that got announced?
Yes to kuga
Edited by Mediawatcher on Mar 18th 2022 at 10:23:39 AM
Thanks for checking dragon, also gonna lend a cut vote.