Old Magnificent Bastard thread
Welcome to the Magnificent Bastard proposal thread! This is the thread where new Magnificent Bastard examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential mitigating features will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the MB subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite MB" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from other parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for MB equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, their goals and methodology, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some characters, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
How are they Magnificent?
This is the point where you highlight the character's brilliance. How to they convey their intelligence and charm to the audience? What makes them stand out among the crowd? What are their goals and how do they go about accomplishing them? This part welcomes a lot of creative thinking — not everyone has to be a Machiavellian Diabolical Mastermind to be worth considering here! This is also the time to showcase how the character can think on their feet if it's necessary.
How are they a Bastard? How are they not too bad?
What kinds of moral lines is this character willing to cross for the sake of their goal? Are they willing to let innocents die? Start wars? Commit crimes? The character has to show some kind of unscrupulousness in order to count as a "Bastard". Notably, this character does not necessarily have to be the villain, and an Anti-Hero can cross the line if they're immoral enough, but they have to be immoral somehow.
This is also the section where you then state your case for why they're not too bad. Perhaps their good intentions help mitigate their crimes. Perhaps others are shown to be much worse than them. Perhaps they're prone to Pet the Dog moments or are even fighting on behalf of loved ones. Whatever the case, there are certain lines that an MB can't cross, but as long as their villainy is reasonable for their goal, they can be considered.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:40:56 AM
Lies and Violence!
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Mendez, Nobody, and Lou. Turning in Flintlocke a bit early cause I'm planning to get the last one in tonight. It's a tad long, but worth it.
- Morro, former star pupil of Sensei Wu and the Elemental Master of Wind, was driven to become the Green Ninja at all costs, but when his ambitions cost him his life his spirit was banished to the Cursed Realm, becoming a devoted servant of the Preeminent and her goal to curse the other realms. Escaping back to Ninjago to possess Lloyd and depower the Ninja, Morro steals the Allied Armor of Azure to summon ghosts from the Cursed Realm to aid in his search for the Realm Crystal, using Ronin's debt to the Soul Archer to have him betray the Ninja and send them on a wild goose chase for the artifact. Morro successfully summons his master, distracting Lloyd from closing the gateway with news of his father's fate in the Cursed Realm, only to realize the error of his ways upon their defeat, gifting Wu the Realm Crystal in his final moments to save Lloyd. When resurrected by Yang, Morro, rather than attacking like the other villains, decides to instead fully make amends with his old teacher by helping to stop the wicked Airjitzu master, happily accepting the role destiny has chosen for him at last.
- Season 6 (Skybound):
- Nadakhan, Djinn captain of Misfortune's Keep, traveled to Ninjago centuries ago to sate his greed and became the greatest pirate of his time. When freed from his imprisonment in the present, Nadakhan uses his shapeshifting powers to distract the Ninja by framing them for a crime spree, allowing him to claim the Realm Crystal, free his crew, and return home. However, upon finding Djinjago in ruins from the destruction of the Cursed Realm, Nadakhan swears vengeance. Unable to wish for himself, Nadakhan steadily isolates the Ninjas and their allies, twisting their own wishes to psychologically torment them until they wish themselves into his Sword of Souls, and empowers himself to raise chunks of Ninjago into the sky to create a new Djinjago. Desiring to marry Nya, partially for her resemblance to his lost love, Delara, partially to become king of Djinjago and gain infinite wishes for himself, Nadakhan constantly adapts to the Ninja's efforts to weaken him and ultimately achieves his goal, resurrecting Delara and coming the closest any villain has gotten to total victory.
- Flintlocke is The Dragon of the Sky Pirates of Misfortune's Keep and an expert marksman. The suave right-hand of Nadakhan, Flintlocke rapidly adjusts to advancements in modern technology to convert the Keep into an airship, allowing their crew to sail the clouds themselves in their mission to transform Ninjago into a new Djinjago. Flintlocke personally manages the crew for Nadakhan and ensures everything runs smoothly, offering advice to aid in their goals by proposing an all-out attack on Ninjago City so the djinn can isolate and steal the souls of the Ninja in the chaos. Upon realizing his captain's true, selfish intentions and being demoted to swabbie for his subsequent mutiny, Flintlocke decides to aid the Ninja in fighting the all-powerful djinn, successfully shooting him with tiger widow venom even under a wish removing his perfect aim.
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Yes to Lou
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
Goku Black
Lou
Ultimate Moral Compass
Lou
Glad to say to Lou. Four keepers in that franchise now—and counting.
Shot my shot with the film version of Azula and she missed. There's always the next one though.
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
How many active EPs can one person have at a time? Two? I ask because I have more coming from this film and don't want to post more than I am allowed.
Edited by Bullman on Apr 8th 2023 at 6:45:41 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Mr. Nobody, Lou.
Now I've got another of the weird candidates. It's Don Alfonso from Così Fan Tutte.
The Work
Cosi fan tutte is an opera by Mozart, considered to be one of his "Famous Four" Italian operas.Young officers Guglielmo and Ferrando decide to subject their fiancées Fiordiligi and Dorabella to a Fidelity Test to prove to their friend Don Alfonso that the ladies belong to the rare (according to Alfonso) breed of faithful women. However, Fiordiligi and Dorabella (the former after a lot of hesitation and internal struggle) fail the test spectacularly, each falling in love with the disguised fiancé of the other.
The Character
Don Alfonso is an old man who believes that All Women Are Lustful. When Guglielmo and Ferrando tell him they are going to prove him wrong, he devises an elaborate Fidelity Test scheme: the two men are going to pretend to leave for war and then come to their fiancées in disguise.
Don Alfonso partly takes into confidence the women's maid, Despina - he tells her that he wishes to be a Shipper on Deck for her mistresses and the "new guests", but doesn't say anything about the disguise. Despina agrees to help him - for money and because she believes all women should be lustful because men are faithless too.
At first Fiordiligi and Dorabella reject the "new suitors" firmly. Don Alfonso stages an attempted suicide - with Despina posing as the doctor and some Intimate Healing (as far as the 18th-century norms allow) involved.
Gradually, the women first decide to enjoy themselves a little and then start to fall for the "new suitors" in earnest, in truth each choosing the other's fiancé. In the end (within the space of a day), they agree to marry them.
In the midst of the wedding, Don Alfonso stages "the army coming home". Guglielmo and Ferrando leave, then return in their actual clothes and explode with rage when they see the marital contract, and then finally show that they were masquerading as the new suitors the whole time.
Don Alfonso calmly tells the women that he has "deceived them but undeceived their beloveds".
The opera's ending is somewhat ambiguous: the women say they will be true from now on, but it's not actually made clear which of them stays with whom, allowing for different interpretations.
Is he magnificent?
Don Alfonso singlehandedly devises and stages an elaborate psychological experiment that works like a charm. He is helped by Despina, but all the plans and arrangements are made by him - she only helps him with her acting (posing as the doctor and then the notary) and with persuading the ladies to enjoy themselves.
Is he a bastard?
He ruins (potentially, depending on the interpretation, for good) the relationships of two perfectly happy couples just to prove that Silly Rabbit, Idealism Is for Kids!.
However, at the start he at least tries (or seems to try) persuading Guglielmo and Ferrando not to do the Fidelity Test (the opera begins In Medias Res, and we don't know who brings up the fidelity question in the first place).
His actions, as far as the libretto suggests, aren't motivated by For the Evulz: he genuinely seems to think that his friends should know the world for what it is.
Conclusion?
If he is enough of a bastard to count, I think he fits.
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
I'm doing these two together because it will be quick.
Who is Tammmy?
Tammy is a former fence who has supposably gone "straight". However, reality she is still the same their she always was, with her garage filled with stuff she stole. Agreeing to join Debbie's heist, Tammy acts as mission control for the team getting them stuff they need. Getting a 3D printer and camera glasses to have Rose take picture of the Toussaint and the royal jewels so they can make a near perfect copy. Infiltrating Vogue in order to get inside info and seating plans, while putting Debbie's disguise on the guest list and the original chef fired so Lou can take her place, Tammy helps Debbie trick Claude into being Daphne's date. Coordinating everyone as the plan is in motion, Tammy helps save Amita from being captured by pretending to find the fake one. She is the first one to get that they are framing Claude. Tammy then uses her business to sell even more stolen goods.
Who is Nine Ball?
Real name Leslie, Nine Ball is the best hacker on the eastern seabord. Introduced after being hired, Nine Ball easily hacks into the Met Gala's security system before telling Debbie to clean up her digital footprint, shutting off their system to prove her point. Helping the group make a blind spot in the camera system by moving a bit everyday by getting access to it further by hacking a guys computer using his love for dogs, something she hates doing. When they learn they need a special magnet to remove the necklace, Nine Ball recruits her sister to make one. Helping Tammy coordinate from a food truck, Nine Ball eventually uses her share to open a pool hall.
Magnificent?
Yeah. They are both experts at what they do. Nine Ball in particular repeatedly shows how good of a hacker she is even on her first scene hacking both the Met and the groups hide out to prove a point. Her plan to use the guys love of dogs was all her idea. She is also qick on her feet quickly coming up with a plan to get the magnit. Tammy is a master fwncer getting that team with what ever they need including the printer rhat proves invaluable and on her own is an expert theif with a full garage of stolen.
For the bastard part they are both part of a heist and Tammy is continuing stealing and selling stuff in her own.
Conclusion?
Unsure but leaning yes.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Bull's duo
Unsure on Don Alfonso
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
to Tammy and to Nine Ball as well. Well done Bull.
Five out of the eight keep. Not bad. Not bad at all.
I would like to propose this quote, "Something to think about on your way to Hell. My family are avenged now. I wanted the five of you together so it could be done just right. But the war goes on. It's because of you and Apostolo that it is a war. Men like you, arrogant enough to think the streets are yours. You send your scum out to rob and extort, to fight your battles, to impose your will. You never give a fuck who might get hurt just for being in the way. Know this: I'm getting out of here. If I can start a riot, I can just as easily escape. And then I'll spend the rest of my life sending more of your people after you, I tell the dead man. Until you and your kind are gone from the world." - Frank Castle/The Punisher from The Punisher MAX series.
Let me get this done real quick.
- God of War Ragnarök: The Norns are the Goddesses of Fate in the Norse Pantheon and powerful seers who reveal one's destiny while forcing them to face their flaws. In truth, there is no such thing as fate and the Norns are simply masters of foreseeing what others will do based on their personal actions and history. When Kratos and Freya come seeking them to discover Atreus's whereabouts, the Norns hinder their journey by creating illusory paths and monster ambushes. Their final challenge involves placing Kratos, Freya, and Mimir in horrible nightmares to force them to confront their greatest fears. During their confrontation, the Norns work together to harangue the trio with a combination of blunt sarcasm and mockery that ultimately prove effective enough to drive both Kratos and Freya to overcome their flaws and become better people.
To Bull’s duo
Ocean's duo.
The Draftsman of Doom
Yes to John, Winston, King, Nobody, Lou, Ocean people.
Unsure on Alfonso.
Edited by SkyCat32 on Apr 8th 2023 at 11:49:29 AM
Feels good, don't it?
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_down_emote.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Don Alfonso. He definitely seems bad enough (and obviously not too bad), but his entire motivation seems to be driven by sexism.
Lies and Violence!
Tammy and 9, no to Alfonso.
Last from Ninjago. This is going to be a fun one.
- Some of this may be familiar, but I haven't been expecting anyone unfamiliar with the show to be taking notes. The world of Ninjago was created by the First Spinjitzu Master, a half Dragon, half demonic Oni. He set about building a world of light, but with light, there must be shadow. A thing of darkness, the Overlord, rose to keep balance, and after clashing for many years the evil was sealed away.
- Vengeful, the Overlord created a malevolent snake god, the "Great Devourer", and had it bite the young son of the Master, a boy named Garmadon. Its dark venom unleashed Garmadon's Oni side, corrupting him into megalomania.
- The ninja were assembled to oppose Garmadon's evil, eventually recruiting Garmadon's young son, Lloyd, as their leader.
- The Serpentine, an unrelated villain faction Lloyd accidentally released, free the Devourer. It causes havoc before Garmadon, nominally on the heroes' side at the moment, slays the beast.
- Garmadon, seeking conquest, becomes a pawn of the Overlord. In the ensuing battle, the Overlord is banished again and the evil in Garmadon's veins is purged. He joins his son for a few seasons, fighting villainy, and eventually sacrifices himself.
- Standard fallen hero arc, right? Tempted into darkness, redeemed by love. Things aren't perfect, but in the end he makes amends. Everyone walks into the sunset in peace.
- Well... no, not exactly. Because partway through all this, they accidentally created the biggest, baddest Big Bad to plague them for seasons to come. Introducing The Heavy for the second half of the series:
- Once a normal little girl, even a massive fan of the ninja, Harumi's life was ruined when the Devourer attacked. She survived its rampage, but her parents were crushed to death. Harumi was left temporarily mute from the trauma, and it worsens when she learns how this happened: the Serpentine, whom the ninja have been trying to stop all year, freed their messiah. Failing to prevent its escape, the ninja also failed to fell the beast. That honor went to their nemesis. The lord of darkness. The emperor of evil. Garmadon.
- Her story caught the attention of the Emperor and Empress of Ninjago, and the royals adopted the child. Unfortunately, this charity only worsened Harumi's trauma, as the stifling, constricting traditions and cold lifestyle expected of a royal princess left her life bleak and lonely. Her resentment towards the ninja grew, and she shifted her adoration to her true savior: Garmadon. A strong, powerful leader. One who wouldn't let djinn or time-travelers come within seconds of victory, over and over and over again. He would be a vicious murderer of a ruler, but if he protected Ninjago, he'd crush threats to the world before they'd ever rise.
- But then, disaster! Garmadon... turned good? He gave up conquest?! Weak. Pitiful! Fortunately, salvation came in his death. This, Harumi realized, she could turn to her advantage. In her worship of Garmadon, she had meticulously researched his history and the hidden truth of his Oni heritage. And it so happened that Oni could cheat death. Specifically through three magic Oni masks, which could be used in a ritual to resurrect the dark lord—not his human side, not his benevolent Dragon side. The thing they would bring back would be a pureblooded Oni warlord.
- Now a teenager, Harumi, calling herself "The Quiet One", built a powerful crime ring: "The Sons of Garmadon." Harumi has them steal the first of the masks while introducing herself to the ninja as princess, inviting them to guard the second mask at the royal palace. She specifically befriends/seduces Lloyd, sneaking out to deliver food to the poor to gain his trust. Once that's firmly established, she has the Sons attack, burning the palace down, murdering the royals, and sneaking the second mask to her subordinates in the chaos. The ninja invite the now homeless, twice orphaned princess to help find the third mask in a remote jungle.
- On their journey, Harumi has her minions hack their ship, crashing them and causing her and Lloyd to fall off. They're separated from the others... making it easier for her to manipulate him. After some adventuring, they finally make their way to the mask, which Harumi has Lloyd retrieve since only his inherited Oni blood will allow him to bypass the final trap. One mask later, Lloyd, a bit too late, questions how she knew he's part Oni. She briefly tries to keep the facade up, but it's clear he's not falling for it. So she reveals her true colors. Yes, she's the Quiet One. Yes, she hates him with all her being, this fool who released the Serpentine in the stupidity of his youth and wasn't strong enough to face their monstrous plot. And yes, she will watch with glee as he feels suffering like she did, when he sees his father returned as a monster, when that monster murders him in cold blood. Harumi escapes to enact the ritual.
- The ninja catch up, and, after a brutal fight... they beat the Sons. The ritual is stopped, a raging Harumi is carted off, the day is save—Ha! Nah, Harumi completed enough of it, it's just time-delayed. Garmadon returns as a pure Oni and busts her out, and Harumi teaches him of the Oni powers he'd previously been oblivious to. She stages a prison break to lure Lloyd in for a fight, allowing Garmadon to brutalize him, overcome any remaining love, and channel all his hate to unlock his demonic might, creating a massive stone titan the Sons use to besiege Ninjago. Lloyd escapes, but the conquest is complete. The world belongs to the Sons.
- But Garmadon can't kill Lloyd. Even after overcoming love... love still exists. Harumi offers to take the place of that love, to be his daughter, so they can crush their enemies and prepare to defend Ninjago from the coming of the rest of the Oni. Or, if he's offended by her offer, she will submit herself to his blade. Garmadon prefers the former, and they plan to annihilate Lloyd's fledgling resistance. Garmadon's memories are fuzzy from resurrection, so he remains a raging brute while Harumi personally coordinates things, locating and attacking the resistance base to cripple their numbers. However, Lloyd captures her and has a good Oni, Mystake, shapeshift into Harumi to bring a "captive" Skylor to Garmadon and copy his powers. Harumi remains nonplussed and quickly escapes to foil this, killing Mystake... but not before Skylor copies the powers. What follows is a battle of wills between her and Garmadon for control of his stone titan, and Harumi flees before their tower is brought down. However, in the midst of this she spies a family. Two parents trying to get their son to safety at risk to themselves. In a pang of conscience, Harumi helps them flee at cost to her own escape. Her fate sealed, she climbs to the top of the crumbling building and shares a last look with Lloyd rooftops away, before falling into darkness.
- And in that darkness... is the darkness. The Overlord approaches Harumi's soul, offering resurrection in exchange for her service. Harumi initially refuses; he's literally Satan, after all, seeking nothing less than total omnicide. The Overlord happily agrees. Evil will always destroy, just as Good will always meet it with steel in hand. Fighting, horror, suffering, all the misery that's plagued Harumi her entire life, has stemmed from this eternal war, from both refusing to back down. But if one finally wins? Then that suffering will end. And Good has never been strong enough to win; generations of protectors have risen and fallen, but all they've ever been able to do is delay him. Join him, see his cause through? Yes, the world will fall. Followed by war. Conflict. Ninjago can find peace. Harumi can find peace. Peace... in the dark.
- Harumi agrees and begins building an army, buying Vengestone—a material that neutralizes the ninja's powers—from the villain Vangelis. Although he's defeated, Harumi smuggles out the remaining product, constructing stone warriors for her master to animate, before stealing the Master's Golden Weapons to free the Overlord and capturing Lloyd. Having seen the bigger picture, she now wants him to join her and lures his friends into a trap to seemingly blow them up in front of him, hoping to drive him to despair and unleash his evil Oni side.
- Their dynamic remains mostly the same as Lloyd escapes and they fight. Harumi tries to have him embrace his hate when she's in control of the situation; when Lloyd's in control, she plays mind games and fucks with him at every opportunity (not in a psychological torment way, more taking the piss out of him). Eventually, the Overlord launches his invasion, and Harumi, monitoring radio transmissions, discerns the ninja's hideout. In the ensuing fight, Lloyd and (now good again) Garmadon duel the Overlord, only to be blasted into submission...
- Until the Overlord, in a fit of monumental stupidity, gloats about how he created the Devourer. Harumi immediately turns on him and attacks. Naturally, this doesn't do much, because... well, she's mortal and he's Satan, but she successfully cuts off his hand, distracting him from blasting Lloyd with Sith lightning and freeing him to banish the Overlord once again. Harumi awkwardly joins the heroes in celebrating and later helps rebuild their home. It's ambiguous if she's free—she's wearing her villain costume, but is accompanied by the police commissioner—but whatever the case, she's intent on making amends. And with that, Ninjago finally finds peace.
- Harumi is easily in the running for best villain in the show. The reveal of her true colors, having played everyone masterfully to bring her to her prize, is one of the biggest twists in the series, and she doesn't let up from there. She's gleefully diabolical with plans within plans, always quickly responding to roadblocks to ensure victory. Even under Garmadon, she's effectively the true ruler of the Sons keeping everything running smoothly, and after that goes belly up she stays hidden for years to singlehandedly orchestrate a massive, world-ending conspiracy nobody catches onto until it's too late.
- Now, is she perfect? Definitely not. Especially in the beginning, she frequently screams in incoherent rage at defeat, and she's ultimately an insane fangirl more concerned with revenge and living out a childish fantasy with her idol than "peace." But that changes. She starts taking things seriously. She willingly submits her life to her master, partially redeems herself in death, and, even after doubling down on villainy upon her return, sheds petty vengeance for a loftier goal of salvation through any means necessary.
- In essence, she graduates from a try-hard supervillain wannabe to a legit brilliant, charismatic mastermind. And she was already pretty damn brilliant and charismatic to begin with.
- Holy shit, she's a Knight of Cerebus like no other in the show. They've had serious villains before, but only with generic take over the world plots. Harumi's introduction is when things takes a serious tonal shift, acknowledging the casualties these plots have on the populace. She opens the season killing her adoptive parents by burning down their house with them still inside, then moves on to almost raze the city—their conquest is explicitly likened to mass murder, all orchestrated to the tune of Harumi cackling like a madwoman over the carnage.
- Honestly, this just makes her even more of a hardcore badass, and like with the above, her character development sands off the edges making her too bad. Her goal evolves from settling a petty grudge into a genuine conviction to bring peace to the world, while her emotional manipulation of Lloyd shifts from sadism to a sincere desire to get him to join her and save existence from conflict.
- My verdict? Yes, yes, and goddamn yes!
Barb / Temporary Kylo
to Nobody and Harumi
Noticed that Owl House isn't on the discussion dates. Any chance I could nab that? There was one potential I was thinking of.
The First man
Goku Black
Princess Harumi.
Not the Eye
Big to Harumi
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Go ahead bud.
I have now finished Owl House as well.
to Nobody and Harumi.
Edited by Hardcorebatmanfan on Apr 9th 2023 at 2:34:26 AM
Tammy/Nine, Nobody, Harumi
Edited by Snowy66 on Apr 9th 2023 at 5:36:51 AM
Yes to Nobody, Azula, Tammy, Nine Ball, Razer, Azula, Harumi and Mendez.
For the first time in three months I have no worthy candidates to propose unless anyone besides 43 and Nonagon would actually thought on a twice ignored Dukes of Hazzard repost for the characters of Ward and Lavinia.
Here is my write up.
- Teen Power Inc.: In Dangerous Game: Tony Zaetta owns a popular novelty shop with secret smuggling ties. When a group of petty thieves steal his briefcase while it contains two dozen statuettes that have pearls hidden inside, Tony knows that the thieves will think the statuettes are worthless and abandon them, as they did in past robberies. To find the pearls, Tony sponsors a scavenger hunt for statutes like the ones with the pearls, with his workers hiding similar statuettes (with subtle differences so Tony can spot the valuable ones instantly) around town. His unwitting searchers find most of the statuettes and turn them in. When Tom Moysten keeps one valuable statuette as a souvenir, Tony fakes a tie in the contest to make Tom turn it in after all. Despite his shady actions, Tony shows concern when his More Despicable Minion attacks Tom, is genuinely fond of his young customers, and and is impressed rather than dismayed after Tom exposes him. Before being taken to jail, he even honors his word and gives Tom and his friends the grand prize for winning the scavenger hunt.
Edited by Melinda on Apr 9th 2023 at 6:34:09 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]")
Lou.
You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid