Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
Not the Eye
Okay switch no as well
Okay let's try again with this guy. Maybe he might get better luck (I doubt it but hey it's worth a try). Without further a due here’s my second candidate from Criminal (2019), appearing in the Spain episode “Carmen”, Carmen’s father.
Who Is He? What Has He Done?
Carmen’s father is an abusive, neglectful, and all-around horrible bastard who is extremely neglectful and would treat his daughter like a slave while refusing to lift a finger to take care of her and her younger sister suffering from autism, forcing Carman to take care of the family while the father would subject her and her autistic sister to beatings if she doesn’t do what he wants, while their mother does nothing but watch tv and sleep.
If that wasn’t enough, it would soon be revealed that Carmen’s father has been raping Carmen with plans to subject her little autistic sister to the same horrific sexual abuse that he had inflict on Carmen. To spare her sister from their father’s depravity, Carmen decides to Mercy Kill her by drowning her while the father wasn’t around.
Carmen would then be arrested by the police where she confesses that she killed her sister so that she wouldn’t have to suffer from their father’s sexual abuse like she did all while breaking down in tears clearly traumatized while the police are left shocked and mortified. The police and the judge decide not to charge Carmen for killing her sister since it was done out of compassion while the father is brought in to questioning with Chief Inspector Maria de los Ángeles Toranzo Puig saying “let’s go destroy this scumbag”.
Freudian Excuse? Redeeming Qualities?
Nothing just a lazy piece of shit who only views his daughters as sex toys that he can abuse and rape whenever he wants, only being angry that Carmen killed her sister because he wanted to rape her, and while they do have a mother whose just as neglectful as him, thus technically making her the father’s wife, there’s zero evidence, not even from Carmen who describes her father in gross detail, that the father shows any care or love to her as she’s never seen ever onscreen, while the father shows up at the end of the episode alone giving a brief smug smirk at the detectives before being brought to questioning, clearly showing zero remorse for what he has done, while having enough characterization to be considered.
Other Militating Factors?
Again with the updated rules I think he can earn a pass since the physical and sexual abuse is shown on Camilla with the latter having a black eye while begging the police to not bring her father in the interrogation room in her inside, while hysterically saying “He Wanted to Keep Doing It To Her!” While in tears, Clearly traumatized on what he did to her and resulting in Carmen killing her sister to spare her from getting raped.
Heinousness
Now the two others are Isabel, whose the sister of a fugitive, and Carmelo a drug dealer who is said to murder one person while accidentally killing two more via hit-and-run. That said Carmen’s father while low in body is deplorable in a personal level having neglected and abused Carmen and her younger sister all their lives, repeatedly raped Carmen, and desired to rape his younger daughter (whose just a child diagnosed with autism) and the sexual abuse was so traumatic and scarred Carmen so deeply, she killed her sister to spare her from the sexual abuse her father was about to inflict on her (if he hasn’t already done so), so yeah I think that he manages to standout, especially since the cops in Spain (one of them being a Dirty Cop) are absolutely appalled at what the father did to his own children.
Final Verdict?
I will leave it to you guys to decide
Edited by G-Editor on Sep 24th 2023 at 9:47:31 AM
Goku Black
More fine with this one. ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Carmen’s father.
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_down_emote.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
sandeep. Though Doesn't sound quite bad enough.
Not the Eye
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
This one seems like a yes.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Lizzid people!
To the pedophilic father. Disgusting individual.
Caesar
Yeah think I have to lean No on Sandeep
My one hesitance on the father is that another one-shot—Dr. Fallon from "Edgar"—is also a pedophile who abused his own stepdaughter before ultimately killing her...but Carmen's dad does have two victims, so he might still be bad enough.
Edited by Ravok on Jun 9th 2023 at 4:46:04 AM
WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!
to Eden Callaghan, Scion Leader and Carmen's unnamed father.
Edited by MGD107 on Jun 9th 2023 at 5:29:17 AM
Web of Carnage comes out next month, on July 12. Is it too early to call it?
And has anyone called Cult of Carnage: Misery?
Edited by Arawn999 on Jun 9th 2023 at 5:52:59 AM
Kind of unsure about the rules despite reading them, but it's been three days since Chief Judge Dread was proposed on page 674, with 13 upvotes and no downvotes, so does that mean he's officialy accepted as a Complete Monster?
If he is, should I writeup an entry for the Judge Dredd monster page, or will someone else? I'll take a stab at it, but I know I have a problem with Word Kruft, so I welcome alternative proposals.
- Chief Judge Joe Dread, antagonist of the novel Dread Dominion, is a parallel version of Street Judge Joe Dredd from a timeline where he shot his clone-brother Rico Dredd instead of arresting him. Days later, he displayed the first inkling of the sadistic super-fascist he would go on to be when he shot out a man's kneecaps for jaywalking and gave him 10 seconds to crawl the five meters back to the pedway before he executed him — only to then kill him anyway because the man's toecap was still touching the slipway. The man had only jaywalked in his excitement to thank Judge Dread for the good work the Judges did. From there, he rose to power as Deputy Chief Judge over a brutally unified Mega-Cities One, Two and Three, before facilitating the rise and subsequent deposition of the mad Chief Judge Cal to become Chief Judge himself. He then launched a war against the Sov-controlled East Mega-Cities by nuking the "expendable" portions of Mega-Cities One-thru-Three as staged Sov attacks. This in turn became the excuse for a campaign of world domination, during which he nuked the defiant Australia until the whole continent was left a mutagen-saturated atomic hellhole called "Woz". World united, he turned them outwords to conquer first the universe, then other timelines. Judge Dread mastermind the creation of such horrors as the Conglomeration (a Bio Punk super-computer made of mutated psychics surgically stitched together), the Orchestra (a "musical instrument" of 5,000 torture victims), and the Stew (a Mutagenic Goo that turns those exposed into literal living nightmares). His idea of "fun" includes instigating literal blood orgies called "Carnal Carnials" and feeding living people to the corpse recycling machinery, especially enjoying putting whole families on the treadmill to watch them betray each other for a few moments more of life. When finally defeated, he attempts to murder his and Judge Dredd's shared younger self, an act that will annihilate both their timelines, out of sheer spite.
....Phenomenal
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
13 upvotes and no downs would mean a keep, yeah, the margin is five more ups than downs. (So if you get 1 you'd need 6 , 2 needs 7, etc.)
And yeah usually the one who made the proposal also does the writeup when possible, though that one looks a little long.
Also, for Carmen's creepy dad.
Yeah, the problem I have with figuring out how to make an entry for Judge Dread is there's just so many things he's done. From his official Start of Darkness, crushing Mega-City Two and Three during their civil war for independence from Mega-City One, multiple crimes relating to Judge Cal, starting a war against the Sov-Block by nuking his own three Mega-Cities as a false flag op(?), annihilating Australia, conquering the world and multiple planets, his treatment of the slave-populace who make up everyone on Earth who isn't a Judge, his Orchestra, his "game" with the resyk machines, the Carnal Carnivals, his plan to literally kill the entirety of Dredd's Mega-City One with ultraterror, his Suicidal Cosmic Temper Tantrum, the Stew, the Conglomeration, and all the awful stuff he does in the novel I haven't even talked about... seriously, where do you even begin to summarize what kind of a monster this guy is?! So, yeah, I welcome anyone to take a stab at doing it, because I'm drawing a blank.
Shin Megami Tensei IV
Carmen’s father
Reading tbe EP...did the cops just decide to not punish a infanticide because the murderer said he did out of compassion? (Not downplaying that they were in a terrible situation. But nothing there really justifies actual murder)
...are the memes about Spain being a dystopia actually true?
Edited by KazuyaProta on Jun 9th 2023 at 10:18:14 AM
Watch me destroying my country
Hey, no worries about the writeup—just a general note, we typically like our writeups—even for more brutal characters like Joe Dread—to be within the 200-250 word range.
I've trimmed it down and cut out the Word Cruft while trying to preserve as much from the flow of the original as possible:
- Dread Dominion: Chief Judge Joe Dread is a parallel version of Street Judge Joe Dredd from a timeline where he shot his clone-brother Rico Dredd instead of arresting him. Days later, Dread shot out a man's kneecaps for jaywalking and gave him 10 seconds to crawl the five meters back to the pedway before he executed him—only to kill him anyway because the man's toecap was still touching the slipway. From there, Dread facilitated his way into becoming Chief Judge, brutally unified Mega-Cities One, Two and Three, then launched a war which saw him consolidate power and nuke the "expendable" parts of the Mega-Cities into oblivion. This in turn became the excuse for a campaign of world domination, which reduced Australia to a radioactive Death World. A bonafide Multiversal Conqueror after this point, Judge Dread masterminds horrors such as the "Conglomeration" or the "Orchestra," each of which run on the eternal torture of thousands of victims at a time. His idea of "fun" includes instigating literal blood orgies called "Carnal Carnivals" and feeding living people to corpse-recycling machinery, especially enjoying putting whole families on the treadmill to watch them betray each other for a few moments more of life. When finally defeated, he attempts to murder his and Judge Dredd's shared younger self, an act that will annihilate both their timelines, out of sheer spite.
Edited by Scraggle on Jun 9th 2023 at 10:11:38 AM
I've got an example from FFXIV. Their identity is a pretty huge spoiler so I hide it with non-gender distinct pronouns, but should I bother?
- Endwalker: The true mastermind of the Pandæmonium raids, the former Chief Keyward, Athena is a truly abominable villain. As The Sociopath and a Godhood Seeker, this villain broke the minds of their coworkers at Pandæmonium solely for their ends, fusing them with mythic creations as test subjects and attack dogs to sicc against any who would stop the mastermind's plot. They even plan to perform Demonic Possession on her own son, Erichthonios seeing him as nothing more than a tool. When the villain's plans are foiled, they plan to destroy the entirety of the Aetherial Sea out of spite, reducing the planet to a wasteland, solely because they won't be able steer is course on their own. A complete Hate Sink with no redeeming qualities, Athena stands out as one of the most vile antagonists in the entire game.
Carmen's father.
Carmen's Father
....Phenomenal
@ reppuzan Normally you need to propose a candidate using the effortpost template and let them be voted on before going to the writeup like that. Though in this case she's already been proposed by finalsurvivor1 and upvoted a bunch anyway, just waiting on their version of the writeup.
There remains a foothold out of this mire — now climb.
What is the work?
1000 Ways to Die is an anthology horror comedy series following people dying in unusual deaths. Most of these people are Asshole Victims, either idiots who get themselves killed by doing something dumb, jerks who just happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time or both. One of the victims isn't any of that, however, but his killer is a piece of work.
Who is King Phalaris? What has he done?
King Phalaris is the sadistic king of the Greek Empire. A known sadist, he was always known for searching for new and crueler ways to torture and kill his enemies.
A struggling bronzeworker named Perillos gets the idea to build a bronze bull, in which the victim will be stuffed inside before the bull is heated, boiling them to death. He presents it to Phalaris.
Rather than picking a pig or a corpse, Phalaris decides Perillos should be the test subject. Soldiers stuff Perillos inside the bull and he is pressure-cooked as he pleads and screams as Phalaris and his goons applaud.
And he gets away with it. Apparently, historically, he would end up the next victim of the Bull.
Is he heinous by the standards of the work?
1000 Ways to Die has garden variety creeps, bullies and jerks. There are a couple rapists in a couple vikings featured on the show and some unnamed prick who gets punched by a drag queen, but only one of the rapes is shown. The worst I can remember are two militia members who steal grain and a Vietnamese poppy field guard who lops heads off with a machete.
The militia members don't actually physically hurt or kill anyone, are kinda goofy and seem to be somewhat chummy with each other, even with the statistic that over 30,000 starve or die to violence in Darfur. The machete man's victims are thieves and wannabe druglords, he's really only doing his job and his method of execution is actually pretty merciful compared to torture.
Phalaris repays a man who provided him a gift with what he knows is a torturous death. And while the narrator gives a signature unfunny pun, the death is portrayed as gruesome and Phalaris as a bastard.
Any Freudian Excuse or other redeeming qualities? He is accompanied by two servants and a woman, but isn't shown particularly caring for them. All they do is feed him grapes and cheer for the death.
Final Verdict?
I think he counts. I've got another one up my sleeve today.
The Moron
So, he kills one person onscreen? Disregarding the show's standard that's nowhere near the baseline. there
A nice swimmer
Horrible as the kill is, to that King. And the show does have a higher standard than normal too.
Sandeep and Carmen Sr. Not a fan of the "killer kills someone to protect them from sexual abuse without permission" trope, honestly, but let's discuss philosophy some other time.
What is the work?
1000 Ways to Die is an anthology horror comedy series following people dying in unusual deaths. Most of these people are Asshole Victims, either idiots who get themselves killed by doing something dumb, jerks who just happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time or both.
Who is Brother Keether? What has he done?
In "Less is Mormon", polygamist cult leader Keether is married to three women and is about to wed a fourth, Sister Karen. The narrator describes the cult as an excuse for old bastards to abuse women, force them into group sex and beat them if they don't comply, with one of Keether's guidelines being "Spare the rod, spoil the wives". Three other women are seen in the audience, so Keether's wives aren't the only victims of the domestic abuse and rape cult. None of them seem particularly happy, but mostly force smiles.
At the wedding, Karen, clearly nervous and aware of what a bastard he is, rejects Keether and runs off into the woods. Keether and the other men decide to chase her down and force her back to the wedding. One of them even grabs a rifle. After Brother Jacob gets a Groin Attack for his trouble, Keether finds Karen and rushes towards her, preparing to drag her back to the wedding.
That's when it's revealed that Keether set up spike traps around his compound to keep intruders from coming in and presumably women from coming out. We learn this through Keether stepping on the trap, resulting in a board full of wooden spikes impaling his heart and lungs in a lethal Rake Take. Keether bleeds out in seconds and Karen escapes.
Is he heinous by the standards of the work?
Again, 1000 Ways to Die has morons, perverts and bullies of all types, but few murderers and even few rapists. There are four others rapists I can recall: a viking, another viking, the viking's brother and this modern prick who gets punched out by a crossdressing boxer. The modern prick doesn't even get to third base, two of the vikings are only briefly mentioned as rapists through the narrations and the last rapist only has one victim.
While Keether doesn't kill anyone like King What's-his-name, he leads a cult where he forces multiple women to be his cult's glorified sex slaves, and regularly beats them whenever they protest. He traps the women in his compound with traps set up so they can't come out and no one can come in and help them.
Any Freudian Excuse or other redeeming qualities? He definitely doesn't love his wives, and while his buddies are willing to go after her, he doesn't interact with them much than an irritated "Git' her!". No tragic backstory either.
Final Verdict?
I think he counts.
EDIT: I'd like to note that one or zero kill CMs have been counted before.
Edited by HighfalutinQuelea on Jun 12th 2023 at 9:16:46 AM
The Digital
Abstain on Brother Keether. The series feel too anthological for me.
No to Sandeep
REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/Her