Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Sure to Daddy, since the story paints him as a monster instead of a man broken by war.
Did Fletcher get enough votes?
Edited by ACW on Feb 8th 2024 at 1:54:44 PM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Definitely yes. Somewhere in the dozens.
A Girl, Just One of Many Kinds
Alrighty, here we go with a candidate from a WEBTOON.
What’s The Work?
All of Us Are Dead is a Korean zombie apocalypse show created and released by Netflix. Taking place at Hyosan High School, we focus on a group of teenage students of various personalities and ages, as well as other characters in Hyosan, after a dangerous zombie virus outbreak. The students now must band together and fight against the zombies and other survivors as they grow up to face the world.
Now we will be talking about the original webcomic created by Joo Dong-geun. Where we meet our villain, who makes the adaptational version look like a saint.
Who is Yoon Gwi-Nam? What Does He Do?
Portrayed even worst in the original version, Yoon Gwi-Nam (Also called Yun Gwinam) is a bullying and barbaric student at Hyosan high school, who is portrayed as an arrogant and condescending sexual deviant. As revealed by Jung Min-jae (Who’s the brother of Ha-Ri in the webtoon than Woo-Jin), Gwi-Nam was horrible in middle school, sexually assaulting and raping a girl named Jeongyun, and apparently he was remained ahem…impotent after she bit down on him hard. However Jeongyun was left in an institution due to the trauma while Gwi-Nam got away with his actions, only getting more barbaric.
He’s introduced well after the outbreak, having thrown a teacher into a horde to get away, as well as sexually harassing another student he saved, glueing her eyes as he taunts and mocks her before using her ripped clothes and underwear as padding. After getting attacked by the student, getting a scar on his cheek, he is infected by a zombie, but ends up becoming immune and becoming an elite zombie. After finding the student having committed suicide, Gwi-Nam finds Eun-ji, named Sae Eun-Ji in the original. Tying her up and taunting her over the fact she killed two other students, and sexually humiliating her over looking like a boy, he eventually revealed his immunity and frees her to help him survive. The two climb down to another room, discovering a senior student and his mentor teacher, with the student having a gun. Gwi-Nam taunts and goads the student into firing a warning shot, before quickly leaving with Eun-Ji as zombies storm in and eat them. He promises to save the student if he gives him his gun, but spitefully goes back on his promise and lowers him into the horde.
While in the medical room with Eun-Ji, the girl gets her period and the sight of blood makes Gwi-Nam’s instincts for flesh overwhelm him and he completely mauls her to death. While initially shocked, Gwi-Nam immediately accepted his enjoyment over flesh, and goes down the halls to find girls, taking their name tags and their bodies in a bag to eat. He is confronted by Ha-Ri, Mi-jin, and Min-jae, and he takes a liking to the two girls. Shooting Min-Jae in the gut, although he was hoping to shoot him in the crotch, he tries to hunt down Ha-Ri and Mi-Jin, telling them to fight him naked so he could get easier access to eat their bodies (and for his own pleasure). Min-Jae has enough strength and shoots him with an arrow and Mi-Jin knocks him out as they flee, with Mi-Jin putting his arm in a window so zombies can eat his fingers off. Min-Jae later passes from his injured though and Gwi-Nam wakes up and is enraged seeing her fingers eaten, declaring vengeance againts Ha-Ri and Mi-Jin.
After the group ends up on the rooftop, Gwi-Nam comes into the radio room and discovers Na-Yeon, and he immediately eats her as he taunts and mocks her, before going on the radio and declaring to find Ha-Ri and Mi-Jin, and killing them and all their friends in the group. After realizing they’re on the roof, and heading about the chemical gas that’s gonna be released in the town, Gwi-Nam uses Ms. Park’s corpse (who dies by Na-Yeon in this original) and wears her scalp and clothes as she attempts to pretend to be her, using the fog to his advantages to lower the groups guards and kill them, writing a last will and testament where he justifies his actions and declares himself a hero when realizing he’s gonna die soon.
However, Woo-Jin spots this and the group catch Gwi-Nam on the roof, holding him up with Ha-Ri pointing an arrow. Gwi-Nam still attempts to attack, wishing to kill the entire group and sexually harass and eat the women before he is promptly shot in the neck. While dying and bleeding out, he simply mocks the protagonists, revealing the gas being released soon by the government and that they’ll die soon anyway before he dies himself.
Mitigating Factors?
God no. He’s worst in the original than the TV adaptation, who has minor, if fleeting, moments of clarity to himself and doesn’t go so far as to be a rapist. This version is a sadistic smug creep who quickly accepts himself as a cannibal.
Heinous Standard?
Passes in the original. A sexual deviant who gains pleasure harassing and eating the women, spitefully having a teacher and student killed, mauling Na-Yeon and Eun-Ji to death among other women who he keeps a bag of limbs to eat and tried to completely kill the entire group so he can sexually assault and kill the women as well. Overall, passes.
Verdict?
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Not the Eye
Daddy and Yoon Gwi-Nam
Lizzid people!
Jogo
Daddy and Gwi-Nam
Edited by jlvs200s on Feb 8th 2024 at 8:11:36 PM
"Stand proud, Sukuna, you are strong." | He/Him
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
Daddy and OG Yoon Gwi-Nam
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Sure to Gwi-Nam.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
A Child from the Stars
for Daddy and Yoon Gwi-Nam.
Caesar
Sure to Hordak, Daddy and Yoo Gwi-nam
- Last Action Hero: The Ripper is a serial killer who enjoys targeting children, and is Jack Slater's most personal enemy. In the movie world, he takes an entire class of elementary schoolers hostage, including Slater's son Andrew, and threatens to kill them all with an axe. When the police try to intervene, the Ripper kills any officers who get too close, and though Slater tries to save his son by shooting the Ripper, the Ripper drags Andrew off a rooftop with him to ensure the boy dies. Brought into the "real world" by Benedict, the Ripper targets actor Arnold Schwarzenegger to destroy Slater's existence, and murders an innocent movie agent in the process. The Ripper then takes Slater's new friend, young Danny, as a hostage and tries to replicate Andrew's death just to torture Slater.
Edited by Ravok on Feb 8th 2024 at 12:26:50 PM
WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Oh, and Orangutans, I'm not sure the Sex Type Thing guy is bad enough.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
....Phenomenal
for AM, Hordak, Daddy, and Gwi-Nam.
Lizzid people!
Yeah. Don't really think it's enough even with the music video since it sounds too abstract.
That, and the baseline standard was only revised for animated media like kid's films. To my knowledge.
Could be wrong.
Edited by AustinDR on Feb 8th 2024 at 1:39:36 AM
Not the Eye
Lean ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_down_emote.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
on the narrator
Goku Black
daddy and gwi nam.
for Daddy and Yoon Gwi-Nam.
for the narrator.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
It was? So, like, we still can't do any slasher with, say, 5 gruesome kills, even if they're the only villain?
Hordak, Daddy, Gwi-Nam
Narrator
Fanfiction proponent
I can imagine that it will only be a matter of time before Horde Prime or whoever else outdo Hordak, but for now, I will him.
The Ultimate Lifeform
to Horde Prime err uhh I mean Hordak, Daddy, and Gwi-Nam!
Gonna say to the Narrator though.
Insert title here
Daddy, Gwi-Nam
A Child from the Stars
Oh, late, but for Hordak also. Was kinda expecting this.
Well, I think I found a new qualifier from possibly one of the strangest works I have seen. Just going to quickly thank Miraculous for finding this. Either way, let's see how this goes.
What's the work?
I think it is safe to say at this point everyone knows what Star Wars is. Ya know, the Space Opera film franchise that started all the way back in 1977 that became likely cinema's biggest franchise? Yeah, and I think it is pretty fair to say it is pretty big outside of film too, given it has multiple spin-off/prequel/sequel shows, movies, comics, novels, etc.
In one of the weirder adaptions though, back in 1980s China, a manhua adaption of A New Hope was made. Was it official? Was it another Chinese knock-off? Did Lucasfilm have any idea of it? I have no honest idea, but a copy and translation appeared online in 2014. It's basically a retelling of the 1977 film with a few changes and...honestly, unless your name is Darth Vader, C3PO, or R2-D2, almost everyone in this manhua looks unrecognizable.
It's also pretty clear the manhua was made before either Episodes V and VI came out considering Luke and Leia appear to actually be lovers here thanks to the ending (considering what most of us know now, ew) and Palpatine doesn't exist...at all. In a matter of fact, Grand Moff Tarkin here seems to take his spot as ruler of the Galactic Empire, who speaking of which...
Who is Tarkin and what does he do?
Tarkin here (who I am just now realizing only goes by Tarkin in this manhua, his Grand Moff title is absent) is a Galactic Conquerer who wants to take over the entire Galaxy to expand his Galactic Empire.
Upon learning that there were rebels that rejected his rule, Tarkin orders his right-hand man, Darth Vader, to go out and crush the rebels. Vader's troops invade Leia's ship, only to kill the rebels that had attacked them while arresting the others, including Leia herself.
After capturing her, Vader and Tarkin have Leia tortured to force her to reveal the Rebel Base. After refusing to give out the location, Tarkin orders his commanders to fire upon Alderaan, reducing the planet to nothing more than just an asteroid field. Shocking, am I right? It's also somewhat implied that Tarkin would go ahead and try to cover up the destruction of Alderaan, as he tried to make the map of the galaxy look almost entirely the same with Alderaan just missing. Yikes...
After Leia flees the Death Star with Luke, Han, Chewie, and their two droids, Tarkin has the Death Star follow them to Yavin where he plans to destroy it, crushing the rebellion for good. As the rebels come in to attack the Death Star, Tarkin and Vader order a fleet of Imperials to go out and destroy them, destroying more than half of the fleet.
However, as you can probably guess if you have seen the movie (which you probably have), Luke fires his torpedoes into the Death Star and blows the thing up, killing the tyrannical Tarkin (and maybe Vader considering how the last panel with them both appears to be them being consumed by the explosion? I don't know, this art style is weird). And I guess considering the ruler of the Galactic Empire just freaking died, I guess that is really it for the Empire here too.
Mitigating factors?
It's...Tarkin. While no Palpatine, I don't think it is really a secret he's by all means a freaking menace in both Legends and Disney's canon. Here? Yeah, he's not really got any issues. He's depicted as a wrathful tyrant who wants to destroy anyone and anything that remotely gets in his way of taking over the galaxy, even if it means blowing up planets. Anything that popped up later for Tarkin that could have been seen as concerning is absent here given that:
- This comic is in its own continuity.
- It appears to have been made before the Expanded Universe stuff really even came out.
- It covers A New Hope only.
Is he bad enough?
Well, yeah, for sure. He basically does the same things as his original counterpart, trying to do anything he can to stop any further rebellion against the Galactic Empire, has Vader torture Leia, and of course, blows up Alderaan while also planning to do the same thing to Yavin.
We do have to keep in mind though, because Palpatine doesn't exist here and this manhua seems to be completely disconnected to any version of Star Wars canon, Tarkin has a pretty easy time standing out here compared to the original, given that he is the leader of the Galactic Empire here and he is basically the Big Bad of the story and also doesn't have to compete to other villains since the standard is lower here and is probably the worst villain in the story.
It is also certainly worth mentioning that because Tarkin is the ruler of the Empire here, he is basically responsible for everything the Empire does. We know that the Empire has reportedly gone to drastic measures to keep everyone under their rule in line.
Final verdict?
for me. Will let you guys decide like always though.
Edited by TheCosmicCollector on Feb 8th 2024 at 6:03:40 AM
"If we're gonna play Owl House, we're gonna NEED an Owl House!"
Goku Black
Tarkin
Got an anime candidate that 43 recommended me coming up, but in the meantime, how about we return to familiar territory?
What’s the Work
Road Kill: Texas Horror by Texas Writers Vol. 8 is the latest in the ongoing horror anthology series that came out last year.
We'll be talking about the penultimate story, "Baby Doll", by Iphigenia Strangeworth.
Set in the swampland of Southeast Texas during the Great Depression, we follow a family of hillbillies, primarily the youngest teenage daughter Candy Joy, aka "Baby Doll", as she prefers to be called. Baby Doll lives with her crazed family of her mom/sister Josy, her freakishly tall step-sister Bobby Lu, and her "Daddy", who just got her knocked up. While told in an Anachronic Order, the story's mainly about Baby Doll trying to escape her hellhole of a home with her husband Jebidiah.
But this guy still proves to be a problem.
Who Is He?
Daddy is the abusive, alcoholic patriarch of the family.
What has he done?
Once a supposedly good man who came back from his time in WW1 far worse than anybody could imagine, Daddy took an interest in his young maid Josy, forcing her to sleep with him until she became pregnant with his first child. Noticing she wasn’t happy with carrying their child, Daddy forced her to be happy by permanently scarring a part of her cheek to form a smile. Their daughter turned out to be Baby Doll.
But when Baby Doll turned 12 years of age, Daddy took to lusting over her, frequently forcing her to have sex with him for many nights until she became pregnant with his bastard offspring. All Daddy cared about when it came to Baby Doll is keeping her pretty, forcing her and the rest of his female family to barely eat to maintain their skinny figures for him and the rest of society. But after Baby Doll gives birth to her daughter/sister Priscilla, she attempts to leave her family behind with her new husband Jebidiah with Priscilla in hand.
But once Daddy found out, he hunted them all down, killing Jeb and threatening to do the same to the others if they don't return home. Baby Doll does eventually get the last laugh, however, when she notices Daddy passed out dead from drinking one night. So she took the opportunity to dismember him and eat his flesh. After all, she’s so hungry.
Redeeming Qualities?
Honestly, nothing. While Bobby Lu claimed that he was good to them before fighting in the Great War, it's left ambiguous over what exactly caused him to turn evil. Whether the horrors of the war broke him, or if this was something he was suppressing for a long time and decided to unleash them upon returning home, it's not exactly made clear, since even Daddy doesn't want to talk about it. I even talked it over with Rav, and he said that for all we know, maybe the war awakened his lust for violence. I'm just saying, I find it kind of hard to believe that fighting in the war would drive him to gain a sexual desire to rape and abuse his underaged daughter.
But either way, Daddy's still portrayed as a monster by the story, a rotten man who the rest of the family looks forward to see drink himself to death.
Heinousness?
Easily the worst in the story. While the rest of the family isn't exactly pure of heart, Daddy shows himself to be the worst, with his incestuous rapes and constant abuse of his family whom he claims to cherish, from beating them on multiple occasions, to threatening to shoot them with his WW1 pistol for making mistakes. Daddy's influence on his family has clearly fucked them over, with Baby Doll spending most of her life bulimic even while pregnant, and his death is portrayed as karma at its finest.
Conclusion
An interesting keep, I feel.
"No running in the halls!"