Misused: Memetic Mutation

Memetic Mutation is one of the most misused and misunderstood tropes on the wiki. It's meant to be for when things in works become literal, evolving internet memes, that go beyond the context of the work and their fandom and spread and change. Most of the usage, however, is fandom-centric and focuses more on internal fandom jokes rather than legitimate memes.

In my Memetic Mutation Wick Check, I checked 141 wicks (with a little help from The Mayor of Simpleton) and a collective total of 194 examples (if my math is right). The full wick check is in the sandbox; it's a bit too long to post here.

The quick results are as followed:

• Proper usage: 38/194, or ~20%
• Fandom memes: 68/194, or ~35%
• References to other works: 5/194, or ~3%
• Reviewer memes: 4/194, or ~2%
• Detractor memes: 13/194, or ~7%
• ZCE: 34/194, or 18%
• Misc: 32/194, or ~16%

Some clarification: The ZCE bin was used for things that gave me so little information I couldn't hope to look up the meme. Random, out-of-context quotes or vague references to things going viral- nothing substantial I could work with. The "Misc" folder was a dumping ground for the things I couldn't sort anywhere else:

• Things I didn't know how to classify
• Things I weren't even sure qualified as Memes
• Things I couldn't verify existed
• Things that seemed to be using a different definition of Meme entirely

It gets even more interesting when you look at the sub-trends within the broader categories. For example, in the "proper usage" folder I had several wicks that were just references to popular internet memes that had nothing to do with the works being discussed- technically the usage was correct in that it properly described something going through Memetic Mutation, however it implies the trope gets used as something of a pothole magnet at times.

Meanwhile, the "Fandom Meme" category had an interesting thing going for it. A lot of the fandom memes were things that are pretty popular or infamous- jokes that people would recognize if I referenced them. However, they were also jokes that never evolved beyond the context of the work, and thus they were just wide-reaching fandom memes.

So that brings up an interesting point: For a while I thought that the proper meaning of Memetic Mutation technically discriminates against less popular works, simply because lesser-known works won't have things go as viral. But it turns out the reality is a lot more varied; you have obscure works that end up with Memetic Mutation examples as a result of the work itself being less popular than the memes they spawned, as well as popular works that have things that can only be classified as "fandom memes" for never achieving that mutation.

That said, I still think there's a clear solution here: Memetic Mutation can be split into two tropes: the true Memetic Mutation, and Fandom Memes. I think Fandom Memes are a valid and relevant part of fandom culture; they're legit audience reactions. But there's obviously two very different definitions of "Meme" being used here, and I think both of them are valid and interesting in different ways.

Edited by WarJay77 on Feb 26th 2021 at 4:28:36 AM

Opening.

Honestly, though, I think expanding it so that it covers fandom memes is perhaps a better move. The distinction you are proposing seems a little too subjective/degree-based for my liking.

And maybe turn Meme into a proper page, I wouldn't surprise me if it being a redirect is part of the reason why Memetic Mutation is misused as "any meme ever".

I think we should expand it to just cover fandom memes as well. I’d be far easier than having to go through all of the wicks and trying to figure out which memes are fandom memes and which aren’t.

I like the idea of making Meme its own page as well.

Meme should definitely be its own page, I agree.

Maybe make Meme as a definition only page.

Edited by ccorb on Apr 11th 2021 at 1:13:17 PM

Agreed, it should be definition-only.

I didn't consider an expansion mostly because the concepts seem a bit too distinct for my taste. But it would be a lot less work.

I would also like Meme to be its own page. Very, very few people actually use the word 'meme' correctly; ironically, this misunderstanding of what a meme is, is itself a meme.

It also appears to me, as Warjay alludes to, that the bulk of examples on the wiki are just fandom in-jokes rather than actual memes. For now, maybe make Fandom Meme an Internal Subtrope.

Edited by VampireBuddha on Apr 11th 2021 at 7:07:29 PM

Agreed. Accept fandom memes and make a page for what the word "meme" entails.

I thought a Meme was a very broad concept of a thing/idea that's transmitted via behavior or imitation and therefore an Internet Meme is an example of such?

Anyway, I support a Meme description and expanding Memetic Mutation to fandom memes.

It is. Language, for example, is a meme. So are music, money, and religion. Fanon is a meme (well, strictly a collection of memes). So is the idea that Godzilla beat King Kong in the Japanese version of King Kong vs. Godzilla The concept of writing is probably a meme, but a given alphabet is not.

An image macro is not a meme, but people use the word to refer to macros. However, the viral idea that the word meme refers to macros is a meme. Beyond that, it's recently started to be used for anything anybody writes on the Internet ever.

Yo, spoilers...

Maybe the definition page for Meme could be Useful Notes to explain the history of the term and how we use it?

I am wondering if the original intention (I think) of Memetic Mutation could be its own thing, for when a phrase or concept from a work becomes mainstream as opposed to a meme that's common within the fandom. Like how the Where's the Beef? commercial got constantly quoted in every situation, or how one South Park episode introduced the word "derp" into the lexicon. That's different than, say, a "so long gay Bowser" joke that still relies mostly on knowledge of its source material. EDIT: Wait, that might be covered by The Catchphrase Catches On.

Edited by mightymewtron on Apr 11th 2021 at 7:29:27 AM

the thread that initially landed Memetic Mutation onto Tropes Needing TRS had a post that said basically the same thing:

so there's obviously some sort of distinction to be had here.

if this was just "oh haha funny anime girl said funny words" without any of the exposure "mutation" implies, then it'd probably get thorougly tossed from any Memetic Mutation entry it ended up on by the people who still care about its original definition.

I think entries should still explain how the item is used as a meme — as a reaction image, a snowclone, a common template for drawing memes, etc. It can't just be a repertoire of funny quotes.

Memetic Mutation, as it currently exists, has a ZCE problem...

Granted, every trope I wick check ends up with a massive ZCE folder, because the wiki is what it is, and what it is, is a cesspool of issues from a decade ago nobody fixed.

Like I said in the OP, my definition of "ZCE" here was any example that explained so little about the meme that I had no possible way to look up said meme.

there definitely should be descriptions, otherwise you just have stuff like half the list on The Online Warrior (and apparently 18% of OP's examples) where it's just "haha funny words, add more exclamation points to make it more funny"

what i was talking about is the scope of the example. that thread obviously had people where they heard of the meme first before the work, so that probably counts for the "mutation" part. the problem is a lot of the misuse stems from misunderstanding (or, probably more accurately, flat out not caring) about the mutation.

regarding the potential new page's name: i feel like "Fandom Memes" shouldn't use the word "memes" at all - after all, part of the reason for Memetic Mutation's misuse is that its namespace is "Memes", like Septimus Heap pointed out. maybe use "Fandom In-Jokes" or something like that?

I like the idea of expanding to cover fandom memes, because that's a legitimate Audience Reaction. I don't currently have strong opinion on whether to make a Meme Definition Only Page.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Apr 11th 2021 at 8:09:42 AM

Again, my biggest concern with merging the definitions is that they might be too distinct. One is about actual, legitimate memes according to the definition of the word (side note, I do like the definition only page idea). The other is the colloquial meaning of the term, and in a much more casual context to boot, being only for fandom jokes.

To everyone who wants to expand the definition, how do we reconcile these contrasting definitions into a single trope, without it being too broad?

Added TRS banner

Hmmm...I'd summarize it as "a comparatively small element of the work spurns a variety of fandom jokes playing off that specific element."

Edited by mightymewtron on Apr 11th 2021 at 10:11:49 AM

That sounds good.

That's workable.

You guys are playing with fire if you are thinking/planning to restrict this to one particular definition of meme.