Ron the Death Eater Cleanup

Agreed as otherwise it get redundant with Misaimed Fandom (barring one-shot characters).

Fanfic.The Negotiations Verse

• Deconstructed Character Archetype: Celestia is one for the Ron the Death Eater portrayals of her that are the norm for The Conversion Bureau fics. Truth goes in depth explaining what would cause one as benevolent as canon Celestia to commit such actions. A combination of desperation to save Equestria and tragedy causing her to assume the worst of humanity prevented her from questioning her actions until too late.

Ron the Death Eater was changed to Adaptational Villainy. Should it be changed back as it is referring to the general fandom trend as opposed to specific examples and how most examples lack plausible explanation for the change in character?

That seems the best idea.

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I just added this to The Devil Wears Prada:

• Draco in Leather Pants: Miranda Priestly is presented in a far better light by the fanbase than the film, mainly due to the commanding presence of Meryl Streep. Fans seem to ignore her abusive behavior towards her employees and instead portray her as a tough but fair boss. Fans also like to ignore the fact that she robbed her friend, Nigel, of his dream job to save her own. This also comes from the fact that a lot of fans like to ship her with the lead Andy, so these fans often say the fact that she gave Andy a recommendation at the end is her supporting Andy's career, but this ignores the fact that much of the film is Miranda trying to mold Andy into being ruthless like herself.

I think she counts, but I would like to get a second opinion as I didn't know there was a cleanup thread. So is this entry good or should I remove it.

Edited by Bullman on Jul 31st 2021 at 12:35:32 PM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread

Seems valid.

YMMV.Star Fox:

• Draco in Leather Pants: The Star Wolf team in ''Assault''. Leon's (apparently) [[AxCrazy a cold-blooded killer]], albeit one who [[CloudCuckooLander loves flowers and rainbows]]. Panther also gets this a lot, as his great reverence for love and [[AffablyEvil lack of actual malice towards Star Fox]] thus redeems him. Finally, there's Wolf, who not only literally wears leather pants, but fans tend to downplay his [[SavageWolf more savage personality traits]] (often severely), especially in order to ship him with Fox.
• Die for Our Ship: On the flip side, just about no one will even ''dare'' ship [[LatinLover Panther]] with Krystal; or else, rabid fans will burst like crazy. As for the endings in Command where Krystal ''does'' end up with Panther? Expect lots of {{Fix Fic}}s where Panther is [[RonTheDeathEater portrayed like an abusive boyfriend whose only interest in life is getting laid]], his [[https://i.imgur.com/4NFxe5O.png official profile]] notwithstanding.
• Ron the Death Eater: If fans aren't portraying Wolf softer than he really is, they're portraying him as a monster who would shoot Fox in cold blood if given the chance. In canon, he's simply the opposite of Fox: a BountyHunter who does what he's hired to do ([[PsychoForHire but has no problem with working with villains]]) and has [[TheRival a rivalry with Fox]], albeit [[TheOnlyOneAllowedToDefeatYou a little cold]].

As it's about the overall fan trend, are DILP and RTDH mutually exclusive as they are opposite trends? (I can see an argument for a Base-Breaking Character going both ways but I'm not sure these are polarizing enough.) If only one can be picked I lean to DILP as the vilification sounds like the exception. Thoughts?

I think it's possible for one section of the fanbase to exaggerate how evil a character is, while another section tries to pretend the same character doesn't have any flaws.

Why did you bring up Die for Our Ship?

"Listen up, Marina, because this is SUPER important. Whatever you do, don't eat th“ “DON'T EAT WHAT?! Your text box ran out of space!”

Okay another entry I added to YMMV.The Devil Wears Prada:

• Ron the Death Eater: Nate is far from the perfect boyfriend in the film, but even with that, the fanbase portrays him as far worse than he actually is. Most fans make him out to be an abusive jerk, when the most he does is get angry at Andy for putting her job first. They also like to ignore his more positive traits, like trying to comfort Andy when she is forced to take Emily's place in Paris. This also comes from a healthy dose of Die for Our Ship, as a lot of Miranda/Andy shippers like to play him as far more aggressive in trying to get her to quit, when in reality he is right about the job changing her, mainly because Miranda admits to trying to do just that.

Doe this seem legit?

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread

Die for Our Ship often happens in conjunction with Ron the Death Eater. At one point I think RTDE was considered a sub-trope of DFOS.

Looks good.

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Cool though I didn't know if it was cool to add it to the main page or not. As the entries there seem very different.

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread

YMMV.Tangled The Series had this entry:

• Draco in Leather Pants:
  • Varian gained a large fangirl following from the start, so when he started Jumping Off the Slippery Slope and became a full-fledged villain by the end of the first season, many excuses began being made for him, with many refusing to call him a truly bad guy because "he just wants to free his father". Though it may be true that Varian's situation was something no minor should have to go through, especially with him losing his only remaining family member and being abandoned and cast out by all of Corona, including his "friends", it was still due to his own mistakes that his father got sealed in amber in the first place, and his serious crimes and offenses were undoubtedly unacceptable. He directs a good chunk of his wrath towards Queen Arianna, whom he threatens and abducts despite her attempting only kindness towards him, and he implies that if his plan to free Quirin had actually been a success, he intended to terrorize Corona and destroy the kingdrom anyway for revenge purposes. Even in his reappearance in the Season 3 premiere, it's clear that in-universe Varian himself does not see his past actions as excusable or forgivable, hence trying to literally wipe the slate clean with everyone. This is expanded upon in subsequent episodes like "Be Very Afraid" and "Cassandra's Revenge", where Varian further admits that his actions at the end of Season 1 - trying to murder Rapunzel, Arianna and Cassandra out of spite - were completely out of line, and he's now deeply disturbed by what he's capable of.

Recently, the entry was deleted with the reason, "I think it's covered better under Unintentionally Sympathetic." Well, I don't think so: US doesn't and shouldn't cover whitewashing or ignoring a character's evil acts, and that's what quite a few people in this fandom do regarding this character. Also, deleting the entry and saying oh, he's just that sympathetic smells like DILP in practice. Or maybe I'm just being paranoid.

Previously, this entry was deleted by an apologist troper that eventually got banned, then restored by The Cool Kat 1995, then deleted again by the apologist troper ban-evading, then restored by me reverting the ban evader's edits. There probably was even more back-and-forth: YMMV.Tangled The Series has a long and dramatic edit history. So, while I believe the entry is legit, I'm also pretty sure I shouldn't just go and restore it by myself now. What do we do?

And if the entry is to be restored, I suggest tweaking and shortening it somewhat:

• When Varian becomes a villain by the end of the first season, many of his massively numbered fangirls side with him and refuse to call him a bad guy because to them, he is just an innocent child wanting to free his father. True, he is a teenager, and he loses his only remaining family and stays alone for an unspecified amount of time. However, it is Varian's own careless experiment that gets his father sealed in amber, and even Rapunzel's magic hair is shown to be useless against it. Yet, just like Varian himself, his fans often blame his entire situation on Rapunzel, her friends and family, and all of Corona believing that he is completely justified in trying to murder them out of spite. In his reappearance in Season 3, Varian himself comes to admit that his actions at the end of Season 1 were completely out of line, and he's now deeply disturbed by what he's capable of.

Edit:

Edited by Tenebrika on Sep 19th 2021 at 6:00:11 PM

I like your revised entry.

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Question, since the definition of Ron the Death Eater has now changed, could I restore some entries that were deleted under the old definition? This one I remember a long time ago in the edit histories.

YMMV.Sonic X

• Ron the Death Eater: Chris Thorndyke is often viewed by fans as a selfish, spoiled brat, who's life isn't all that bad as he claims it is, and being more obsessive over Sonic than Amy is. However, Chris isn't really a bad kid. His whiny moments like in episode 49 were due to his fear of loneliness, which kept him from handling the situation of Sonic returning to his world more positively, especially since the news sprung upon him unexpectedly and was pretty impactful for him, and he was acting more traumatic and in denial than like a spoiled brat. His clinginess to Sonic and his fear of loneliness is due to being neglected by his parents since he was little, as he had to spend most of his time alone inside his huge and empty mansion without friends or siblings, making his life feel very empty and he didn't want to lose the one person who filled that void with his friendship and adventures. This also applies to when Chris shut down the portal to stop Sonic from going back to his world. Chris didn't shut down the portal because he's a spoiled brat. He did it because his emotions and fears got the best of him, that he made a reckless choice without thinking clearly.

What do you guys think of this entry I dug up? I think the part about Chris being demonized is true, but it might need a rewrite as it's kind of long.

Edited by PlasmaPower on Sep 21st 2021 at 6:17:44 AM

Thomas fans needed! Come join me in the the show's cleanup thread!

The idea looks good but a rewrite could be good.

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From Live-Action TV

• On iCarly, Sam Puckett is a Jerkass who loves to bully poor Freddie and other characters on the show. Doesn't stop a lot of fans from insisting she can do no wrong.
• Guy of Gisborne in the BBC's Robin Hood prior to his Character Development. It doesn't help that he actually wears leather on the show.
• Malcolm Tucker from The Thick of It, despite him being an utter, utter, utter bastard.
• Max Thunderman started out as the villain of The Thundermans. But he has several fans due to his good looks, snarky personality, and Jerkass Woobie status.
• Zero from Tin Man is a coward that gets his kicks torturing — well, lots of people, but notably children. And yet fangirls swoon over.
  • Downplayed in the case of Bill Compton. While Bill’s popularity as a character has taken a hit in recent years thanks to a combination of Values Dissonance, being viewed as The Scrappy by a good chunk of the fanbase, and his relationship with Sookie falling into Romantic Plot Tumor, that still hasn’t stopped hardcore fans of Bill from painting him as this tragically misunderstood character who is always the victim (no matter what he does) and who genuinely wants to be a decent person. This is ignoring that he’s committed some pretty heinous crimes (rape, torture, murder, human trafficking, terrorism, etc) that should have either gotten him sent to prison or executed. It also ignores that he’s intentionally gone out of his way to either hurt or kill other people while proceeding to either make excuses for his behavior or try to find someone or something to blame for how he acts. To give a recap: He spent 70 years with Lorena raping, torturing, draining, and killing innocent women and men while getting a hard-on from the carnage he caused. After 70 years pass, he begs Lorena to release him because he doesn’t want anymore “bloody beds” or “cruelty for sport,” and yet once she complies with his request, he immediately goes to join a nest of vampires (Diane, Liam, and Malcom) and proceeds to participate with them in their sadistic escapades. He then works for Queen Sophie Anne for 35 years as her personal procurer (which by definition is someone who obtains another human as a prostitute for a client), and it’s pretty much stated that he was employed by her, which means he got paid to bring her humans to feed on, rape, parade around as her pets, and then callously dispose of once she was done with them. And then there’s his entire relationship with Sookie: Despite the insistence that Bill really fell in love with Sookie, it doesn’t change the fact that he got into this relationship by allowing Sookie to get beaten to death by two dangerous psychopaths so he could pretend to be a hero, use the situation to drug Sookie with his blood (which was both a powerful aphrodisiac and a tracking device), and use this to manipulate Sookie into falling in love with him. All of this was done so he could procure her for the Queen. And despite having multiple opportunities to come clean to Sookie about this, not only did he try to keep his actions a secret, but he also attempted to murder Eric and Pam when they found out what he did, and later tried to gaslight Sookie into believing he was a wonderful boyfriend with her best intentions in mind. This also includes the instances when he tried to control her, when he assaulted her, when he tried to manipulate her, and when he kept secrets from her for self-serving reasons. Bill only gets worse in the later seasons after they break up, and one particularly vile act he commits is when he tries to target Jason (Sookie’s brother) by bullying Jessica into turning Jason into a vampire without his consent. And yet, in spite of all of this, you will still find Bill fans who profusely insist that Bill really did love Sookie in a selfless way and that his behavior towards her (and towards other people) wasn’t abusive at all.
• Jade West from Victorious is an Alpha Bitch who enjoys tormenting Tori whenever she can. However, a huge portion of the fandom tries to downplay and justify her horrible actions, often reinterpreting Tori's character to be an Alpha Bitch worthy of being taken down a peg.
• Andy in Weeds who goes onto his nephew's computer and talks dirty to his sixteen year old girlfriend while jerking off.
• Z Nation: Murphy. A portion of the fanbase seems to have missed the memo that he's the Token Evil Teammate.

I feel like these ones could use a rewrite.

Also I added this to Warehouse 13:

• Draco in Leather Pants: H.G. Wells is a frequent target of fangirls who forgive her more unsavory actions as far back as her debut, due to her natural charm, tragic backstory, and good looks. In her debut season, she kills one of her allies, manipulates Myka into trusting her, leaves a lawyer in a boiling pit of tar, gives Pete's girlfriend an object that forces her to almost kill him, and tries to start a second ice age by activating a supervolcano. While she does eventually join the good guys, some fans portrayed her as one even when she was advocating for the extinction of the human race.

Does this seem legit?

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread

Definitely agree that those could use a rewrite. They’re a mix of too brief and lacking in explanation (Sam Puckett, Malcom Tucker), and too long and rambling (Bill Compton). Unfortunately I don’t know enough about any of the individual examples to be of much help.

I am aware of some of the work enough to rewrite a lot of it on my own, but some of them I am not.

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread

I think I wrote the Victorious example. How's this for more context:

• Victorious: In canon Jade is a bully who often torments those around her. Notably, she sabotaged Tori's attempt to give blood to Robbie so Tori would have to give more blood and ultimately be too weak to perform in a play. However, there is a portion of the fanbase that tries to downplay her negative actions or even justify them. This often results in Tori being reinterpreted as an Alpha Bitch who deserves Jade's treatment. An incident that's commonly brought up is that Tori kissed Beck during a play in order to mess with Jade. What's often left out is that Tori did this in retaliated for Jade pouring coffee on her after she assumed Tori was making a move on Beck.

Edited by RustBeard on Sep 27th 2021 at 9:20:26 AM

A character can be both DILP and RTDE if they're complex enough, right?

Because I'm wondering if the titular character of Dear Evan Hansen (particularly the film version) is subject to RTDE. A lot of people who only know the story through the film, or not at all, assume it's about a kid who decides to lie about someone's suicide just to make himself more successful. In the actual story, other people make the wrong assumptions about Evan's relationship, and it's other people who initially push him to take advantage of it, and he just can't really come out and say it's not real before things get out of control.

It's more of a morally complex Snowball Lie situation, and there's definitely some Unintentionally Unsympathetic issues, but the memes and other criticism surrounding the show make Evan out to be a lot more malicious than he is in context. I think that's even a bigger perspective than DILP which he used to be more subject to.

Edited by mightymewtron on Sep 29th 2021 at 10:44:02 AM

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.

A character qualifying as both would be insanely hard not even sure if it is possible.

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IMO, if there's a lot of people whitewashing a character and also a lot of people vilifying them, then why not.

On the other hand, this, "A lot of people who only know the story through the film, or not at all" makes me think of Common Knowledge instead.

I like it. I don't know if it's relevant but should we mention that a lot of fans try to ship with Tori despite her bullying her? It seems like a big side effect of her being easily forgiven since these fans just outright ignore that. Something like this:

"There is also large set of fans who ship her with Tori, despite the fact that she does nothing but bully her for most of the show, including stealing her blood."

Edited by Bullman on Oct 4th 2021 at 7:00:00 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread

How about this:

• Victorious: In canon Jade is a bully who often torments those around her, especially Tori who she stole blood from once. However, there is a large set of fans who ship her with Tori, despite the constant bullying. They typically try to downplay Jade's behavior or justify it. Some fans who dislike Tori will reinterpret her as an Alpha Bitch who deserves Jade's treatment. An incident that's commonly brought up is that Tori kissed Beck during a play in order to mess with Jade. What's often left out is that Tori did this in retaliated for Jade pouring coffee on her after she assumed Tori was making a move on Beck.

Edited by RustBeard on Oct 4th 2021 at 5:41:49 AM

I like it.

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread

Can a character fall into both Unintentionally Unsympathetic and Ron the Death Eater?

Thomas fans needed! Come join me in the the show's cleanup thread!