During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
- Why do a cleanup?: This trope definitely exists and has a well documented history of use. That being said, it frequently gets misused to a character who meets one of the components, namely that they are smart, charming while not necessarily even being a villain, or create good plans. While these are components, there is also a certain personality required, not to mention that all of the above are required to be present for a character to be a true Magnificent Bastard. As the trope attracts interest, it unfortunately brings in a lot of misuse and I thought the best way to rectify this would be a Perpetual Cleanup Thread, as is being done and has seen success with Complete Monster.
- What makes a Magnificent Bastard: Below is a list of the individual components to make this character. Note that they must all be present, not just some, which has lead to frequent misuse:
- Must be intelligent: Goes without saying, to be a Magnificent Bastard, the character has to be smart in the first place and use their brain to work towards whatever their end goal may be;
- Must be a Bastard: While going overboard in how vile the character is can be detrimental, a key aspect is the Bastard part of the trope, whether the character is an out-and-out antagonist in the work, some manner of Villain Protagonist, or something in between, they at least have some unscrupulous qualities to qualify for this trope;
- Must not be too detestable: Again, there is a ceiling on how bad the character can be before they just become too nefarious, blocking out the Magnificent part of the trope. A genocidal racist or child-raping Sadist aren't going to make the cut;
- Think on their feet: In addition to being a Chessmaster, a Magnificent Bastard, if the character deals with situations in which their initial plan is ruined, has to be able to pull a Xanatos Speed Chess and at least come up with a competent strategy to make up for lost time, otherwise they fail for being unable to think in tough spots;
- Have charm: Even if they don't necessarily make every character they meet fall in love with them and can even be detested by others, the audience has to find an amicable social relation to the character, or they are failing to make the impact required for this trope.
- What to do if a character is listed on a page but has not been approved?: They need to be removed, all candidates need to come through the cleanup thread first. The character could well count but they need to be analyzed properly and voted on first.
- Do we list Playing With this trope?: No; as a YMMV trope, this cannot be Played With, so we only want examples that are Played Straight.
- What do I do if I want a character to be listed as a Magnificent Bastard?: The greatest success Complete Monster saw for its cleanup effort was from the invention of the effort post format, so, borrowing from that, a troper wishing to propose a Magnificent Bastard will create such a post in the following format:
- Begin by describing The work, this will help establish the setting the character is in and for the reader to understand what kind of a scenario they are in;
- Summarize The character's actions, this will provide a listing for readers to understand what they do and how it applies to this trope because charm and lack of smugness are so crucial, this is a good time to be incorporating exactly the flavor of how they operate to explain this;
- List circumstances in which the character must Think on their feet, these are times where a wrench might be thrown in their initial plan and they have to adapt on the spot or even come up with a new scheme all together, this is also a good time to explain how the villain reacts to defeat when they have to face it, a true Magnificent Bastard won't break down into tears at the thought of death, they should have known such a possibility could occur and be able to handle it with more dignity;
- The competition, similar to the Heinous Standard dealt with for a Complete Monster, this section is to deal with how successful the character is in carrying out their plans compared to other characters. While, as a villain, they probably are going to lose in the end, it is good to explain how other characters handle the same situation. There is no exceptionalism case to be made for this trope but explaining the variety helps the reader have a better understanding of the proposal.
- How do you know when the character's arc is done so they can be proposed? When their tenure as a villain or antagonist finishes. This could happen in a single Story Arc in an entire work, a single work of a franchise, or the whole series in general. We'll show lenience to Long-Runners with constantly recurring candidates or series with outstanding continuities (ex. comic books), and it's entirely possible to count in a work or two but not in general for a reason like Depending on the Writer.
- What about candidates evil because of external sources? Those Made of Evil can qualify if they show enough individuality and tactical acumen — in other words, they have the personality to fulfill the magnificence requirement. Conversely, those brainwashed, especially if they're a better person without it, may fail the individuality aspect and cannot count.
- What if they are under orders from a higher-up? Depends. If the boss created the plans down to the letter and the candidate is just following them, sounds like we should discuss the boss instead. However, if the candidate takes creative liberties with the orders, adds their own charm and flair to them, fills in holes in the orders, and/or actively deals with obstacles their boss did not talk about, the candidate shows enough individual thinking to qualify.
- What about Character Development? An MB is something a character can develop into... a nice person who plots well might become more morally gray as the work goes on and hits the "Bastard" criteria, thus making them viable. Likewise, a Smug Snake might shed their ego, become more understanding of the threat others pose and gain the personality or "Magnificent" criteria, likewise making them viable. Conversely, a character who looks like this trope might suffer from a Sanity Slippage or just get outed as not being as smart as they thought they were and become incompatible with MB.
- Can an MB be a good guy? Not in the conventional sense... it is required they have at least some dubious traits lest they fail the "Bastard" criteria. That being said, a character who pulls a Heel–Face Turn or eventually stops taking villainous actions is still fair game: as there was a point in time where they were both "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and they've merely adapted as time goes on. Now... if such a character begins showing other issues (i.e.: becomes prone to freak outs or starts getting outwitted) then they're compromising their Magnificence and will probably be deemed a cut. What's important is stylishly operating while at least for some time being willing to take at best underhanded methods to see a job done. A Heel–Face Turn in itself isn't a disqualifier but they do have to have been "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and afterwards can't start slipping on the former front.
- What about characters whose stories can take different routes?: When proposing a character in a form of media that has them in multiple story routes. Said character must be consistent with their characteristics in all routes. (ex.: Can't have an example who shows promise on one route yet fails in another.) The only exception is if a later installment of the series confirms the character's actions which made them worth proposing are the canon route.
- Is there a timeframe rule like with Complete Monster?: Yes, please wait two weeks until after the work has concluded before proposing a character (again, usually using the North American air date). As is the case with CM, we want to give a reasonable time frame so that everyone interested in seeing the work has done so and can participate in the discussion without having anything spoiled.
- What about groups like with Complete Monster?: This is a point of divergence between the two tropes. While CM does not allow for a single entry encompassing more than three characters lest their heinousness for crimes becomes too watered down, with MB as long as they are treated as one "unit" it is acceptable to lump all characters provided they share acts of charm and intelligence.
- Can I propose my own work's character as a Magnificent Bastard?: No, this is a YMMV subject and the creator of a content is way too biased to be able to evaluate the criteria we're looking for without a second opinion taking over. That being said, you are more than welcome to encourage someone to consume your creation and if they feel a character counts, are more than welcome to suggest them.
- My example/edit has been approved, but the example subpage is locked! How do I get it added?: The moderators do not add examples to locked example subpages in the MagnificentBastard/ namespace directly. Rather, you need to do the edit to a sandbox page that follows the format Sandbox.MagnificentBastard<Name of the example subpage> (e.g for MagnificentBastard.Fullmetal Alchemist it's Sandbox.Magnificent Bastard Fullmetal Alchemist) and on a Friday, ask in the locked pages edit requests thread for the content to be swapped in.
Thread rules
When voting a troper must specify the effort post they're voting on and cannot merely vote on "Everything I missed" as in the past it has indicated the poster didn't read the effort post and is guessing instead of analyzing.
Resolved items
In general, a character listed on this trope is considered "settled". This means they should not be challenged unless information used to list them was incorrect or information was missed in the initial discussion.
However, when re-litigating a candidate, the same rules apply for when they were originally proposed. If they do not have five or more upvotes than downvotes for approval upon a re-litigation, including votes from the initial discussion if they do not change, then they are a cut.
This especially applies to the characters listed below, who have been discussed excessively and repeated attempts to get them listed/cut may result in punitive action for bogging down the thread.
Definitely an MB
- Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers: Any sadism Darkrai displays is limited in effect thanks to the game's nature and any cowardice which can be inferred about him is Alternative Character Interpretation about his tactical retreats.
- Avatar: The Last Airbender: Azula's Villainous Breakdown is undone in the sequel comic Smoke & Shadow where she regains her composure and ends up stable and in control enough to count.
Definitely not an MB
- South Park: The show's frequent use of vulgar comedy and mean-spirited humor leaves any potential candidates devoid of the dignity or charm to qualify.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:15:22 AM
Sounds like standard Kira behaviour, I think it's fine.
Ah. Sounds about right. Glad we solved that.
Edit: Also an enthusiastic yes to the Red Hood quote.
Edited by Riley1sCool on Jul 26th 2020 at 11:33:33 AM
Okay, catchin' up. Yes to Joker, Heiss, Music Meister, Selena, The Crypt crew, and Gray Fox. I like the quote, as well.
Yes, yes, and yes again to the Gray Fox.
Goku Black
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Gray fox
Based on the EP, to the Music Meister. Good job Bullman.
Yeah no South Park villain could ever count for this. Aside from being jokes, a lot of the possible candidates likely go too far too.
So I hear another Joker got into the Magnificent Bastard. I have to say, not surprising considering the fact that the Joker's killing ability is limited and thus to be Batman's Arch-Enemy, he has to be a showman and mastermind to put the Bats on edge. Makes you wonder what other Adaptational Nice Guy Jokers would qualify as Magnificent Bastard. So a late to the Joker (as well as a to the Music Meister).
Speaking of DC villains, I just saw that Pre-Crisis Hugo Strange has been approved as a Complete Monster. Incidentally, Pre-Crisis Strange has been on my mind lately as a candidate for Magnificent Bastard after reading a summary of how he discovered Batman's Secret Identity and tried to sell it to the villains, which became the adaptation of "The Strange Secret Of Bruce Wayne" for Batman: The Animated Series. And honestly, the comic book was better since Strange wasn't a cowardly, foolish wimp. The only thing that's holding me back on writing an EP all this time is that... I don't have the comic issues with me to properly analyze Strange's actions. The best info I got are the online review of aforementioned episode and WatchMojo.com's video about Strange.
By all accounts, he seems to be a good candidate but again, I don't have the issues to avoid a DCAU Darkseid problem. But since Pre-Crisis Strange was analyzed and approved as a Complete Monster, I wonder if someone does have those issues to analyze (or at least know enough to find any disqualifying aspects).
A second candidate from Tales of the Witchblade, this time from issue 6
Who is Samantha?
The story starts in the long past, with us seeing Romans ruling over one town as tyrants, abusing the population, putting impossible taxes on them and humiliating the town's Elder, before throwing him into the sewers. Samantha enters the story by saving him from drowning there, before they hear the screams and stumble upon Roman soldiers preparing to rape a young woman, leading to Samantha killing those soldiers and saving that woman as well, after which she leaves the town people to themselves, saying that they she will not be protecting them, as they need to fight off themselves (noting that they outnumber Romans). As she washes herself later, she meets a girl, who notices her that Roman soldiers looking for her for killing those Roman soldiers in the sewers, forcing Samantha to run and be captured by Romans, as she didn't want to risk to use her Witchblade in plain sight.
Samantha was put in the cell with the woman, who she saved from being raped, who also informed her that Town's Elder was executed already and they will be executed in one hour for the murder of Roman soldiers in the sewers, leading to Samantha deciding to reveal her backstory to the woman. Samantha originated from the very town the story take place in, Romans massacred many people there and take her as a slave, separating her from her family and selling her to an abusive Roman noble. While her mistress was kind to her, her master prove himself to be more horrific every daya and when her mistress decided to protect her, the noble beats her to death, leaving Samantha all alone. When Samantha tried to send letters to her family, Romans found them, mistake this as a sights of revolution and put her in prison, before torturing many of their slaves, but one of these tortures set the dungeon on fire, allowing Samantha to escape. There she met druids, who give her the Witchblade and trained her.
As Samantha and the woman, who was named Cecilia, were taken to be executed and the governor mocked them, Samantha fredd herself, revealing her Witchblade, but not fast enough to save Gerald (another prisoner). She kills executioner and tells Cecilia to leave and save herself, leading to the governor orders his soldiers to fire at the crowd in hopes to kill Samantha, allowing her to rally the people to fight the Romans. She set the the governor on fire and as the fire spreads through the entire town, the governor revealed to have survived and tried to kill her only to be easily defeated. Samantha sees the "fruits of her labor", which is the town on fire and everyone, be it an innocent peasant or Roman, dead. As she hopes Cecilia escaped, Samantha stumbles upon her dying, and it was revealed that Samantha let everyone destroy each other, as this was her plan all along, since when she returned to the town she found out that her father tried to organize the revolution and when Roman found him, the people of the town did nothing and some even cheered at his execution, leading to her wanting to kill everyone in the town. As Cecilia dies saying that "Is this what your father would have wanted?", Samantha answered "Yes", while leaving and crying.
Samantha's later apperance relegated to cameos, with one flashback showing her kill galdiators and then a Roman noble and in
◊ other
◊ cameos she stands among all others wielders of Witchblade, helping Sara Pezzini (protagonist of the main Witchblade comic) out.
Is she magnificent?
Masterminded the destruction of both Roman army and the people of her town with everyone not suspecting anything until its too late. and even when she cried at the end of her issue, after achieving everything she wanted but losing one friend in the whole town, she still had the last word and doesn't appear to be broken. And while she comments in her mind that Witchblade takes control of her during anger, she still shown to have masterminded everything herself and never being a puppet of the Witchblade.
Too much of a bastard?
As i said, masterminded the destruction of both Roman army and her peoplea and while the Romans were nothing but Hate Sink incarnations and their deaths wouldn't have made her a bastard, manipulating the people of the town, many of whom were portrayed sympathetically and as just victims of Roman opression psuhes her through to the bastard category. She isn't shown enjoying what she did, neither is she sadistic, she also cared for Cecilia and her entire plan came to be out of desire to avenge her parents, whom she loved.
Final Verdict
What do you think?
Edited by VeryVileVillian on Jul 27th 2020 at 2:35:29 PM
I've got one candidate already in the Lovecraft barrel. How 'bout a second?
What's the setting?
Fall of Cthulhu and its successor Hexed, from Michael Alan Nelson, are a horror comic with a singular character native to both, the Brazilian master thief Luci Jenifer Inacio das Neves (or "Lucifer"). Fall of Cthulhu is overtly and shamelessly Lovecraftian, telling the epic story of a world thrust into a cataclysmic reckoning of the Great Old Ones known as the Godwar, while Hexed takes a more Urban Fantasy approach to further approach what happens to Lucifer after the events of Fall of Cthulhu. One overarching figure overhangs over both these stories: the Harlot.
Who is the Harlot? What has she done?
The Harlot is a green-skinned Humanoid Abomination known as the Keeper of Secrets, introduced in Fall of Cthulhu as neither really an ally or an antagonist at first. The Harlot, despite her eldritch nature, is no true Great Old One or Outer God; she's a strange denizen of the Dreamlands who tends over a menagerie of boxes. Anyone desperate enough to find her for knowledge is permitted to step inside one of her boxes to seek the one secret they want to find—yet not without a price, as the Harlot takes something equitable to the secret and may freely demand "favors" afterward for those who survive the tolls her secrets take.
The Harlot's secretive is running contrary to Fall of Cthulhu's Big Bad, old Nyarlathotep, chessmaster and wicked Outer God. Important heroes end up turning to her for knowledge as the comic goes on, which the Harlot deliberately anticipates; the heroes are in bad need of some vital answers before the apocalypse kicks off, and, hey, she happens to have all of then. The Harlot takes the memories of Raymond Dirk's dead wife, one of Cy Morgan's wisdom teeth, and eventually Cy Morgan himself as payment for vital secrets for the heroes' side. As the price for some unspoken secret, Cy Morgan climbs into one of the Harlot's boxes and vanishes for around a third of the story.
Nyarlathotep manages to set up the Godwar, but the Harlot ends up assisting them at the crucial moment. Just when the heroes seem helpless, Cy Morgan returns with the secret the Harlot bestowed him—the one single thing that can banish Nyarlathotep, the knowledge of his true name, which would drive any other human to insanity. The Harlot out-gambits Nyarlathotep so hard all the Outer God has in response is a Flat "What", before the Harlot blasts him into a disgraceful breakdown and has him banished, screaming, back to Azathoth.
Turns out? The Harlot is fond of humanity, as much as a creepy Humanoid Abomination can be, and deliberately schemed against Nyarlathotep to avert the Godwar and screw over the Outer God. There may be good reason for her fondness for humanity; as Fall of Cthulhu ends with the Harlot utterly triumphant, Hexed taps more into a subplot with the Harlot taking Lucifer and designating her to be her successor as Keeper of Secrets. The Harlot, as Hexed reveals, used to be a human woman named Fastrada who was used, abused and shunned for her magic powers. Her sisters attempted to sacrifice her daughter, Margrit, resulting in Fastrada becoming the Keeper of Secrets to save her. The one curse; her daughter was saved, but the one secret the new Keeper of Secrets was never allowed to know was where her daughter ended up.
The Harlot isn't quite Fastrada anymore, and, having acted as Lucifer's mentor for much of the duration of Hexed, ceases to exist when Fastrada descends in order for Lucifer to assume her position at last to defeat the vile Madame Cymballine. Fastrada herself dies in a Heroic Sacrifice to take the wicked spirits of her sisters down for good.
What's her competition like?
Bluntly put? None. The Harlot makes Nyarlathotep, otherwise unquestioned Big Bad and legendary manipulator on his own right, her utter bitch in Fall of Cthulhu. While Hexed sees her position as Keeper of Secrets forcefully ousted by Madame Cymballine, it's for a very short time. The Harlot's chosen successor screws over Cymballine and makes her die in disgrace while the Harlot/Fastrada herself dies in a graceful Heroic Sacrifice.
Is she too much of a bastard?
The Harlot is Above Good and Evil—she's merciful for a Humanoid Abomination, especially with her fondness for mankind—but don't mistake her for nice or even anything but mostly self-interested. The Harlot freely damns the mortals who deal with her in varying horrible ways, and slams Cy Morgan box for years on end as the price for knowing Nyarlathotep's true name. Granted, Cy ends up kinda-sorta okay in the end, but box-related And I Must Scream isn't something you walk away from totally sane.
How does she operate?
The Harlot's scheme in Fall of Cthulhu is brilliant in its simplicity; make Nyarlathotep disregard her as a threat, tempt his traumatized victims into dealing with her simply through the nature of her epithet and then helps one of them get revenge on Nyarlathotep timed in a way that saves the world. Boom. The Harlot's efficient use of the Batman Gambit and her subtle scheming means she has much of the plot in her control. Lucifer herself, her protege and successor, is a cunning Guile Hero who unfortunately misses the mark for MB herself for a smattering of reasons.
Conclusion?
Making a pawn out of the Crawling Chaos seems to be an easy way to qualify in this thread, doesn't it?
Edited by Scraggle on Jul 27th 2020 at 5:57:42 AM
Yea to Samantha and a hard yes to the Harlot. Actually, her taking the memories of Dirk's dead wife helps to save humanity when Nyarlathotep's dragon takes the form of said wife to seduce him...and he's able to resist and kill her because he has no idea who she looks like.
Granted, I'd just question that Cy ends up fine. The Harlot sends him in with the knowledge to banish Nyarlathotep almost certainly knowing that he's going to see Azathoth itself, which melts Cy's brain. Given how Nyarlathotep has destroyed his life and brutally tortured him, though the Harlot is unquestionably fond of him and this is presented as a mercy for the poor guy.
Still, easy, easy keeper.
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
@Shadao Sadly I don't know enough there to answer that.
Sure to Samantha. Yes to the Harlot.
@Scraggle Who's your next candidate who outsmarted Nyarly? You seem to be on a roll.
J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
Goku Black
Samantha and the harlot
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Yes to Gray, Samantha and the Harlot
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Samantha and the Harlot.
Yes to Samantha and the Harlot. Ravok should be able to shed some light on Strange, as he just covered him.
Having talked it over with Lighty I’ll have a cut to propose in a bit.
Edited by 43110 on Jul 27th 2020 at 10:33:48 AM
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Oh. Now I am intrigued.
Also wasn't Arrowverse Slade going to get a rewrite?
Edited by Bullman on Jul 27th 2020 at 9:51:31 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Foreign Troper
I don't have time and motivation for that currently sorry.
If somebody wants to, by all means.
But good job on Music Meister.
Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Thanks. He was fun to EP.
I would do the rewrite myself, but I have not seen all of his later episodes.
Edited by Bullman on Jul 27th 2020 at 10:25:38 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Since the curiosity came up fast:
Alright so, a candidate brought to us from Lighty in the early days:
- Magnificent Bastard: The Collector is a demon out to gain the magic Key from the Demon Knight, Frank Brayker. A genius 'salesman', he preys upon the desires and fears of the humans within the hotel he besieges, seducing or tricking them into selling him their souls and arranging them strategically to do as much damage as he can. Outwitting the humans at most opportunities, he even relies on the cowardice of the boorish Roach to unlock the gate for him, before allowing his demon minions to kill Roach anyways after a cheerful "vaya con Diablos." Charismatic and oddly charming with a roguish sense of humor, the Collector stands out as one of the most memorable villains from Tales from the Crypt.
Being a Complete Monster? Not the problem, the guy is a demon sent to destroy the Earth for Satan, that's fine for villainy. Couple problems with how he operates though:
- The Collector is, in true style of the comedic aspects of the horror-comedy, prone to temper tantrums, screaming in rage when Brayker won't give him the key, before cursing the building he and his companions are hiding in and summoning a group of demons.
- I've gotta debate the "genius salesman" point. He preys on a vulnerable prostitute to turn her into his demonic minion and frequently makes use of illusory magic and mind control with no indication his victims can really fight back, with the exception of Jeryline—though this is later revealed to be due to the fact she's destined to become the next Demon Knight—there isn't a whole lot of brainwork indicated here.
- When Jeryline is left as the Final Girl, he gets seriously creepy with her, stripping her down to dance with her and when she doesn't talk—she's swallowed a good deal of sacred blood she plans to spit on him—gives her a sexist-laden rant about how she's behaving unattractively. He composes himself with all the grace of a domestic abuser before preparing to kill her before she spits the blood on him and he dies. The other thing here? He saw her doing something with the key containing the blood and she's pulled enough tricky tactics he should be on his toes at this point.
He's funny, I love him and Zane killed it in the role but it feels like a Damon Killian case where the personality isn't quite in the right place. He's a ruthlessly competent tracker for the first half-hour but as the film goes on, I think the Collector relies too much on having access to powers his victims have hardly any defence against and loses it too much when things don't go his way.
Thoughts?
As discussed, fine by a cut
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Cut The Collector. Still a great villain though.
Edited by Bullman on Jul 27th 2020 at 10:47:52 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Well we've still got him on CM... inverse-Ardyn.
Goku Black
Cut the collector.
Seems like one of those cases where he loses control way too often and ends up relying non his powers rather then his smarts.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Cut the Collector.
Ahhhh ok, I know the scene that entry is referencing, and no, I don't think it's disqualifying—it's actually not foreplay or sexual (for Kira at least) in the slightest, Shinobu is taking off her clothes to get ready for bed and is struggling with a catch in the back, Kira's killing urges causes him to sneak up on her and start to wrap his hands around her neck, but he snaps back to his senses as Shinonu flinches away from his touch.
He quickly lies that he was trying to help her with the clothes and exits the room, leaving her flushed and excited, under the belief that he was coming onto her.
It's really not foreplay or him nearly raping her via deception since he looks like her husband...he literally just almost kills her, controls himself, fools her that he was trying to help her take her shirt off, and she gets all hot and bothered by it because she's horny as hell for her husband when Kira is disguised as him.
WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!