During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
- Why do a cleanup?: This trope definitely exists and has a well documented history of use. That being said, it frequently gets misused to a character who meets one of the components, namely that they are smart, charming while not necessarily even being a villain, or create good plans. While these are components, there is also a certain personality required, not to mention that all of the above are required to be present for a character to be a true Magnificent Bastard. As the trope attracts interest, it unfortunately brings in a lot of misuse and I thought the best way to rectify this would be a Perpetual Cleanup Thread, as is being done and has seen success with Complete Monster.
- What makes a Magnificent Bastard: Below is a list of the individual components to make this character. Note that they must all be present, not just some, which has lead to frequent misuse:
- Must be intelligent: Goes without saying, to be a Magnificent Bastard, the character has to be smart in the first place and use their brain to work towards whatever their end goal may be;
- Must be a Bastard: While going overboard in how vile the character is can be detrimental, a key aspect is the Bastard part of the trope, whether the character is an out-and-out antagonist in the work, some manner of Villain Protagonist, or something in between, they at least have some unscrupulous qualities to qualify for this trope;
- Must not be too detestable: Again, there is a ceiling on how bad the character can be before they just become too nefarious, blocking out the Magnificent part of the trope. A genocidal racist or child-raping Sadist aren't going to make the cut;
- Think on their feet: In addition to being a Chessmaster, a Magnificent Bastard, if the character deals with situations in which their initial plan is ruined, has to be able to pull a Xanatos Speed Chess and at least come up with a competent strategy to make up for lost time, otherwise they fail for being unable to think in tough spots;
- Have charm: Even if they don't necessarily make every character they meet fall in love with them and can even be detested by others, the audience has to find an amicable social relation to the character, or they are failing to make the impact required for this trope.
- What to do if a character is listed on a page but has not been approved?: They need to be removed, all candidates need to come through the cleanup thread first. The character could well count but they need to be analyzed properly and voted on first.
- Do we list Playing With this trope?: No; as a YMMV trope, this cannot be Played With, so we only want examples that are Played Straight.
- What do I do if I want a character to be listed as a Magnificent Bastard?: The greatest success Complete Monster saw for its cleanup effort was from the invention of the effort post format, so, borrowing from that, a troper wishing to propose a Magnificent Bastard will create such a post in the following format:
- Begin by describing The work, this will help establish the setting the character is in and for the reader to understand what kind of a scenario they are in;
- Summarize The character's actions, this will provide a listing for readers to understand what they do and how it applies to this trope because charm and lack of smugness are so crucial, this is a good time to be incorporating exactly the flavor of how they operate to explain this;
- List circumstances in which the character must Think on their feet, these are times where a wrench might be thrown in their initial plan and they have to adapt on the spot or even come up with a new scheme all together, this is also a good time to explain how the villain reacts to defeat when they have to face it, a true Magnificent Bastard won't break down into tears at the thought of death, they should have known such a possibility could occur and be able to handle it with more dignity;
- The competition, similar to the Heinous Standard dealt with for a Complete Monster, this section is to deal with how successful the character is in carrying out their plans compared to other characters. While, as a villain, they probably are going to lose in the end, it is good to explain how other characters handle the same situation. There is no exceptionalism case to be made for this trope but explaining the variety helps the reader have a better understanding of the proposal.
- How do you know when the character's arc is done so they can be proposed? When their tenure as a villain or antagonist finishes. This could happen in a single Story Arc in an entire work, a single work of a franchise, or the whole series in general. We'll show lenience to Long-Runners with constantly recurring candidates or series with outstanding continuities (ex. comic books), and it's entirely possible to count in a work or two but not in general for a reason like Depending on the Writer.
- What about candidates evil because of external sources? Those Made of Evil can qualify if they show enough individuality and tactical acumen — in other words, they have the personality to fulfill the magnificence requirement. Conversely, those brainwashed, especially if they're a better person without it, may fail the individuality aspect and cannot count.
- What if they are under orders from a higher-up? Depends. If the boss created the plans down to the letter and the candidate is just following them, sounds like we should discuss the boss instead. However, if the candidate takes creative liberties with the orders, adds their own charm and flair to them, fills in holes in the orders, and/or actively deals with obstacles their boss did not talk about, the candidate shows enough individual thinking to qualify.
- What about Character Development? An MB is something a character can develop into... a nice person who plots well might become more morally gray as the work goes on and hits the "Bastard" criteria, thus making them viable. Likewise, a Smug Snake might shed their ego, become more understanding of the threat others pose and gain the personality or "Magnificent" criteria, likewise making them viable. Conversely, a character who looks like this trope might suffer from a Sanity Slippage or just get outed as not being as smart as they thought they were and become incompatible with MB.
- Can an MB be a good guy? Not in the conventional sense... it is required they have at least some dubious traits lest they fail the "Bastard" criteria. That being said, a character who pulls a Heel–Face Turn or eventually stops taking villainous actions is still fair game: as there was a point in time where they were both "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and they've merely adapted as time goes on. Now... if such a character begins showing other issues (i.e.: becomes prone to freak outs or starts getting outwitted) then they're compromising their Magnificence and will probably be deemed a cut. What's important is stylishly operating while at least for some time being willing to take at best underhanded methods to see a job done. A Heel–Face Turn in itself isn't a disqualifier but they do have to have been "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and afterwards can't start slipping on the former front.
- What about characters whose stories can take different routes?: When proposing a character in a form of media that has them in multiple story routes. Said character must be consistent with their characteristics in all routes. (ex.: Can't have an example who shows promise on one route yet fails in another.) The only exception is if a later installment of the series confirms the character's actions which made them worth proposing are the canon route.
- Is there a timeframe rule like with Complete Monster?: Yes, please wait two weeks until after the work has concluded before proposing a character (again, usually using the North American air date). As is the case with CM, we want to give a reasonable time frame so that everyone interested in seeing the work has done so and can participate in the discussion without having anything spoiled.
- What about groups like with Complete Monster?: This is a point of divergence between the two tropes. While CM does not allow for a single entry encompassing more than three characters lest their heinousness for crimes becomes too watered down, with MB as long as they are treated as one "unit" it is acceptable to lump all characters provided they share acts of charm and intelligence.
- Can I propose my own work's character as a Magnificent Bastard?: No, this is a YMMV subject and the creator of a content is way too biased to be able to evaluate the criteria we're looking for without a second opinion taking over. That being said, you are more than welcome to encourage someone to consume your creation and if they feel a character counts, are more than welcome to suggest them.
- My example/edit has been approved, but the example subpage is locked! How do I get it added?: The moderators do not add examples to locked example subpages in the MagnificentBastard/ namespace directly. Rather, you need to do the edit to a sandbox page that follows the format Sandbox.MagnificentBastard<Name of the example subpage> (e.g for MagnificentBastard.Fullmetal Alchemist it's Sandbox.Magnificent Bastard Fullmetal Alchemist) and on a Friday, ask in the locked pages edit requests thread for the content to be swapped in.
Thread rules
When voting a troper must specify the effort post they're voting on and cannot merely vote on "Everything I missed" as in the past it has indicated the poster didn't read the effort post and is guessing instead of analyzing.
Resolved items
In general, a character listed on this trope is considered "settled". This means they should not be challenged unless information used to list them was incorrect or information was missed in the initial discussion.
However, when re-litigating a candidate, the same rules apply for when they were originally proposed. If they do not have five or more upvotes than downvotes for approval upon a re-litigation, including votes from the initial discussion if they do not change, then they are a cut.
This especially applies to the characters listed below, who have been discussed excessively and repeated attempts to get them listed/cut may result in punitive action for bogging down the thread.
Definitely an MB
- Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers: Any sadism Darkrai displays is limited in effect thanks to the game's nature and any cowardice which can be inferred about him is Alternative Character Interpretation about his tactical retreats.
- Avatar: The Last Airbender: Azula's Villainous Breakdown is undone in the sequel comic Smoke & Shadow where she regains her composure and ends up stable and in control enough to count.
Definitely not an MB
- South Park: The show's frequent use of vulgar comedy and mean-spirited humor leaves any potential candidates devoid of the dignity or charm to qualify.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:15:22 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Gerard
Here's a writeup for DSOD!Kaiba then.
- Magnificent Bastard: Seto Kaiba is determined to resurrect the Pharaoh by any means necessary, developing a space station and space elevator and a way to track citizens via their Duel Disks and brainwaves in his attempts. When he excavates the Millennium Puzzle, Diva attempts to kill him with the Quantum Cube, but Kaiba's technology and willpower repels the attack. Kaiba turns the ensuing duel around by summoning Obelisk the Tormentor, and while Diva escapes, he's unworried and says they'll finish their battle later. When Kaiba learns Diva stole two of the Puzzle pieces, he kidnaps him and plans to wager the pieces at an exhibition match after inviting Yugi. Kaiba agrees to Yugi's demand to duel Diva first, and when he and Yugi duel, he only briefly loses composure when Yugi reassembles the Puzzle to confirm the Pharaoh cannot return. Kaiba's reaction to seemingly losing their duel is a smirk, and when Diva returns as a corrupted monster, Kaiba tag-teams him and sacrifices himself to keep Yugi in the game, imploring him to call the Pharaoh. The Pharaoh returns and saves everyone, but takes the Puzzle with him to the afterlife. Kaiba then decides to follow him there, using the Quantum Cube and his own technology to breach through to the afterlife and prepares to duel as the movie ends. Kaiba's plans succeed or are adjusted so they can succeed for the majority of the movie, and he weathers any setbacks to succeed in getting what he wants.
Sure on DSOD Kaiba.
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
Sure to Seto Kaiba and Gerard. Abstain on the candidates I've missed.
People, I've found and cut this unapproved entry there:
- Magnificent Bastard: Laura Stuart.
ZCE aside, and having very little knowledge of the anime, does anyone knows if she actually counts?
Edited by GeorgieEnkoom on Sep 27th 2019 at 5:21:14 PM
J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
Lizzid people!
Just cut this:
- Magnificent Bastard: Haman. In contrast to his Biblical portrayal where he begs for his life after in the scene where Esther reveals his plan in front of the king, here he doesn't lose his cool and instead calmly casts doubt on her Jewish heritage, accusing her of trying to usurp a good position, then breaking speeches her as she fears the king may not believe her.
Yeah...no.
Edited by AustinDR on Sep 27th 2019 at 9:59:29 AM
Yes to Gerard, Lala can you trim that Seto entry?
@ Georgie, Laura probably counts, a long with at least one other character in the series but that's going to take me a while to get to and both are still going strong in the plot.
Edited by 43110 on Sep 28th 2019 at 9:11:07 AM
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
* Magnificent Bastard: Seto Kaiba is determined to resurrect the Pharaoh by any means necessary, developing highly complex technology in his attempts. When he excavates the Millennium Puzzle, Diva attempts to kill him with the Quantum Cube, but Kaiba repels the attack without effort. Kaiba turns the ensuing duel around by summoning Obelisk the Tormentor, and while Diva escapes, he's unworried. When Kaiba learns Diva stole two of the Puzzle pieces, he kidnaps him and agrees to Yugi's demand to duel Diva at an exhibition. He only briefly loses composure when Yugi reassembles the Puzzle to confirm the Pharaoh cannot return, and his reaction to seemingly losing their duel is a smirk. When Diva returns as a corrupted monster, Kaiba sacrifices himself to keep Yugi in the game, imploring him to call the Pharaoh. The Pharaoh returns and saves everyone, taking the Puzzle with him to the afterlife. Kaiba decides to follow him there, using the Quantum Cube and his own technology to breach through to the afterlife, prepared to duel. Throughout the movie, Kaiba is in control and weathers any setbacks to succeed in getting what he wants.
A total has-been.
Alright, I got this EP done and ready to be presented here.
What's the work? - Pokemon Diamondand Pearl Adventure is an 8 volume manga series written and illustrated by Shigekatsu Ihara. It's based on the Gen 4 games of Pokemon, particularly the Diamond version and (in the last 3 volumes) the Platinum version. For Volumes 1 to 5, there's an overarching Big Bad who I'm going to discuss here:
Who is Cyrus? What does he do? - Cyrus is the 27 year old leader of Team Galactic who seeks to harness the time-twisting power of Dialga in order to set the universe back to how it was in it's beginning, where he can then remake the world in his own image - a world devoid of emotion - and reign over it as it's new God. He also manages his own energy company, as indicated when we first meet him at Hearthome City Contest Hall wearing a business suit.
When formally introduced, Cyrus invades Celestic Town along with his commanders Saturn and Jupiter, and they appear before Hareta, Mitsumi, Jun and the town elder at the local ruins. He and Mitsumi seem to share a history. Cyrus goes on a A God Am I Motive Rant to his opposition before taking what he came there for and walking out, leaving the heroes to battle Saturn and Jupiter. Hareta, however, pursues Cyrus to an outside bridge. Admiring Hareta's determination, Cyrus decides to try to explain to the child why his position is justified and will lead to a better future, and offers that Hareta join him in the shaping of a new world. However, when he mentions all the Pokemon lives that would need to be sacrificed in order to bring this future about, Hareta declares he can't accept or forgive that and challenges Cyrus to a battle. While Hareta proves a tougher, cleverer, and more durable opponent than Cyrus expected, Cyrus is still able to win the match and send Hareta and his Pokemon off the bridge. Cyrus at one point had started to find the battle fun, which unnerved him since it distracted him from his serious objective, making him consider Hareta dangerous and in need of being disposed of.
Cyrus returns during Saturn's bombing of Lake Valor in order to capture the three mythical Lake Pokemon that embody spirit - Mespirit, Uxie and Azelf - and he discovers that Hareta is still alive and has beaten Saturn, which prompts him to deem Saturn a failure who's to be kicked out of Team Galactic. He then has a second battle with Hareta, who'd been training with Gym Leader Byron in order to improve his Pokemon's strength and technique along with his own, but it does him no good as Cyrus overpowers him again. Saturn actually assists Cyrus in finishing the job at Lake Valor, which gets him back in his boss' good graces. Cyrus declares he cannot be stopped now, but if any of the good guys wish to try, they're welcome to do so at Team Galactic's HQ in Veilstone City. This at first seems like a self-sabotaging move to make, but then it's revealed that Cyrus had assurance that Team Galactic's former best agent, Mitsumi (what a shocker!), would be drawn back into the group in order to fight for them again, and sure enough, this happens.
When Hareta and some of his Gym Leader friends raid Galactic HQ, Cyrus employs a divide and conquer strategy where all the Gym Leaders are sent through Warp Tiles and then sucker punched by Mitsumi, who they'd previously believed was an ally. Hareta then has to battle Mitsumi so that he's occupied while the power from the Lake Pokemon is being extracted in order to forge Cyrus' Red Chain, which he plans to use to enslave Dialga. During the battle, Cyrus reveals that Mitsumi was orphaned at a young age, and Cyrus took her in to live with him and be her Big Brother Mentor of sorts, which naturally included welcoming her into Team Galactic. He taught Mitsumi every trick she knows and conditioned her into becoming an ultimate fighting machine for Team Galactic, a hardened warrior with no weak spots who's always looking to take advantage of her opponents' weaknesses and utterly crush them in order to claim victory. As the battle progresses and Mitsumi starts to falter, it's revealed that Cyrus was able to convince her to fight for him again in the first place because he took her favorite Eevee captive and threatened it's life should she not obey his orders (which we later on learn was an idea given to Cyrus by Charon, Team Galactic's Mad Scientist charged with things like the actual making of the Red Chain). Cyrus tells Mitsumi that love and companionship are all illusions of the weak human heart - no one will ever truly be there to help her in life, so she needs to rely on her strength and take what she needs. Pokemon battle is war, one that she must always achieve victory in at all costs or else she's nothing! But Hareta debunks this with a The Power of Friendship speech and a Shut Up, Hannibal! to Cyrus when he again tries to order Mitsumi to battle the way he wants her to.
Afterwards, Cyrus leaves for the lab sector of the HQ. Hareta follows him through the Warp Tile. Cyrus reveals the Red Chain is ready to be completed, and finishing the process of crystallizing the Lake Pokemon's energy into a Red Chain leads to a sequence where the room's gravity goes out of whack and brings Hareta too his knees, all as the Lake Pokemon writhe in agony and Cyrus raves about how he plans on un-making the universe so that he can then remake it in his image - a universe devoid of incomplete spirit that will give birth to a world without emotion, a world he shall reign over as it's supreme deity of time and space! He claims this will stop all needless strife, conflict, human error and ugliness that blemishes the world, for all that bad stuff only comes into existence because the human heart is so lacking and can only truly produce negative emotions like hatred, rage, envy, bitterness: all positive emotions are merely illusions that make people less inclined to keep their true emotions in check, so there's nothing to be lost from getting rid of them! As the Red Chain is completed and in Cyrus' hands, he smugly asserts that his words are proven right by Hareta's own rage, how he must hate him so much now. But to Cyrus' surprise, Hareta tearfully tells him that though he's a bad man, he does NOT hate him - he wishes he could see the error of his ways so that the two of them could have a great battle together. This actually touches Cyrus to the point where, as the base is self-destructing due to a failsafe that got activated by the Red Chain's completion, he leaves a Master Ball at Hareta's feet and tells him that, should he make it out alive, he can come to Mount Coronet, to the Spear Pillar where he may have that battle with Cyrus that he wants - a battle to determine the fate of Dialga and the universe. Cyrus departs while thinking to himself that if Hareta's resolve is a strong as he's seen it, then he will make it out of there.
That night, at the Spear Pillar on top of Mount Coronet, Cyrus and his followers stand there to wait out the timeframe for when Hareta might arrive. When it looks like Hareta's not coming, Cyrus assumes he didn't make it out alive after all, which actually disappoints him, but not enough to deter him from starting the ritual to call fourth Dialga and shackle it with the Red Chain. Once Dialga is out and enslaved by Cyrus, Hareta is brought before him by Commander Mars and B-2, the grunt with the swollen butt (don't even ask!), which delights Cyrus for now Hareta can witness the birth of the GOD OF THE NEW WORLD! Cyrus declares that his first act as God will be to turn time backwards in order to wipe out everyone and everything in the existing world and then start anew. This horrifies the rest of Team Galactic, who'd been under the assumption that their mission was to lead the existing world to salvation, but Cyrus madly declares that this world is beyond saving - it had it's chance and now it must perish in order for a new world to take it's place, a world on which a better future shall be shaped, for there will be no more emotions to mess things up! Sensing opposition from everyone present at Spear Pillar, Cyrus orders Dialga to kill them all. But Hareta breaks free of his confines and battles the Cyrus-controlled Dialga in order to protect everything. When Cyrus continues to rave about how much better the world of emotionless drones he envisions will be, Hareta tells him Shut Up, Hannibal! because that "utopia" would be, in fact, a living nightmare that no living creature, human or Pokemon, ought to be subjected to. Cyrus gets pissy and finally cuts the crap, attempting to have Dialga reset everything to zero, back to when the universe began and the world born within it was innocent and pure, so that he can create his world and steer it's course how he sees fit. But because Hareta's heart bonded with the Lake Pokemon, the three of them appear and synchronize their power with Hareta's Pokemon, giving Hareta the power to bring Dialga down and shatter the Red Chain, meaning it's no longer in Cyrus' control. Professor Rowan tells a mortified Cyrus that he lost because he sought to eliminate the heart and had rejected it, whereas Hareta won because he sought to liberate the heart and was driven by it.
But just then, Palkia, the Pokemon who rules space, appears and it riles Dialga up. The two Pokemon begin clashing with each other, creating a time-space distortion that threatens to tear apart reality and end all of existence entirely. Cyrus laments the fact that the old world will fade away after all, but this time there'll be nothing to replace it - nothing will be left of the universe but emptiness. Determining that the existing world, even with all it's faults, is still better than no world at all, Cyrus decides to help Hareta and his allies by revealing that there's a notable gap in time in between Dialga charging it's power for it's Roar of Time technique and it actually using it. That gap can serve as the opening to attack it and Palkia in order to stop their fighting from tearing all of existence apart. Cyrus and Team Galactic even do their part in the giant combo attack that gets fired at the two Pokemon. However, once everything has calmed, Cyrus has vanished. He and Team Galactic had fled the scene. While Jun assumes they're going to cause more trouble later on down the line, Hareta is optimistic that they might change their ways.
There's another, smaller story arc in the latter three volumes of the manga that adapts points from Platinum. In it, Team Galactic has been taken under new management by Charon, who seeks to amass great profit, status and influence from selling off Legendary Pokemon. He's locked Cyrus up in the new HQ's prison level. Cyrus, in a broken, pitiful state, is later joined by another prisoner - Kaisei, who happens to be Hareta's father. The two men put together a plan of escape so that they can aid Hareta and stop Charon. Once Cyrus has been set free by his three young commanders plus B-2, who all have turned from their former extremism but show that when having to choose between Cyrus and Charon, their Undying Loyalty is still with Cyrus, he rallies together all the followers he can in order to lead a charge against Charon and stop him before he can capture Giratina and exploit the Distortion World to his advantage so that he may rule the world. When Mitsumi considers following Cyrus' lead, Cyrus has a heartfelt moment with her where he tells her she's not Team Galactic's ultimate warrior - she's simply herself, free to choose where she belongs and who she fights alongside, and he personally feels she's better off with her new friends that she'd ever been with Team Galactic. Mitsumi thanks Cyrus for his newfound understanding and forgives him for his poor treatment of her in the past and all the crimes he'd committed/had her commit in his name. Cyrus also gets to meet with Hareta again and as he is semi-friends with Hareta's father now, he's also willing to be semi-friends with Hareta too, which delights the boy greatly.
After the final crisis is resolved (and Charon has been arrested), Giratina is calmed and thanks to Hareta's friendly influence, wishes to have a battle royale with all the trainers and Pokemon gathered outside the Distortion World. So everyone, Cyrus included, prepares for this, with Cyrus giving a genuine non-evil smile for the first time in who knows how long.
Is he charming? Can he think on his feet? - Being able to think on his feet during battles is a given as he's able to defeat Hareta at least twice, he's able to roll with the punches that come from the opposition to his actions and even work them to the advantage of his plan in the case of getting Mitsumi back on his team and making her defeat the Gym Leaders and battle Hareta to occupy him while the Red Chain is being made ,and he shows remarkably keen observation skills with how he's the sole person to notice the brief pause in Dialga's Roar of Time technique that can serve as the opening to attack it and Palkia in order to stop their fighting from tearing all of existence apart.
As for his charm? He's got to have some serious charisma, intelligence, and visible conviction to his beliefs in order to not only get so many people to follow him, but to impress Hareta enough for him to anticipate the chance to battle with Cyrus like a friend despite him knowing full well how bad a guy he is and that he's acting in the wrong with his plans, and even more notably, to win Saturn, Mars, Jupiter, B-2, and even Mitsumi back over to his side during the charge against Charon even though Cyrus had mistreated and tried to kill all of them in the past prior to this! That he could strong-arm Mitsumi into doing his bidding and then threaten to end the existences of his own henchmen at the Spear Pillar, yet these people STILL feel they'd gladly follow him when the choice is between him and a self-obsessed greedy dirtbag like Charon certainly speaks to how inspiring he can be as a leader.
A bastard? Too much of a bastard? - Obviously a bastard, but this version of Cyrus runs into the most trouble here. The artwork for the character depicts him as being a lot more emotionally charged, wild, psychotic, and even sadistic than other versions of Cyrus, to the point where we get him appearing very maniacally gleeful as he raves about how he will become a deity with the powers of time itself and reign over a new world, how the deaths upon thousands or millions of Pokemon as a result of his actions would be worth it if it's for the creation of a better world (as a literal Poke' graveyard is depicted in the background), how love and friendship are mere illusions, strength and victory matter above all and that one can only rely on oneself to take by force what they need in order to get by in the world, and even how he's going to end the world, kill everyone in it, and reset everything to zero so that he can birth a new world from the ashes of the old one, a world of shining obedient perfection! He can easily come off as being too vile and too cruel, with his whole twisted guardianship relationship with Mitsumi being not too far off form Ghetsis and N levels of horrible. The more unhinged depiction of him also makes him seem more prone to impulsive behavior and losing his cool a lot more easier than you see from other versions of Cyrus, with Mitusmi's battle with Hareta at Galactic HQ and Cyrus' own battle with Hareta using Dialga at Spear Pillar both having notable instances where he starts to lose patience or get furious, roaring at someone about how they understand nothing and that his way is correct and the way that must be followed for the sake of peace, justice and all that self righteous spiel.
That said, two of his absolute most despicable deeds - brainwashing a Pokemon into acting as a living weapon and threatening the life of Mitsumi's Eevee if she doesn't comply with serving him - are revealed to actually be the fault of resident Complete Monster Charon, who made the tech that does the former and gave Cyrus the suggestion for the latter. For his part, Cyrus is actually seldom ever NEEDLESSLY cruel and far from simple pettiness, and he has a clear set of principles: when he realizes Hareta truly does care about everyone, even him, and does want to have a proper battle with him, he gives him a potential way out from the collapsing Galactic Base so that, should he make it out, he can come to the Spear Pillar and battle Cyrus to decide the fate of the universe. And so when Cyrus stands and waits for a while at the Spear Pillar before determining Hareta must not have made it out alive, he's actually regretful about it, as he'd actually been hoping to have that battle with him. Unlike other versions of Cyrus, this one doesn't attempt to pretend he has no emotions and very freely expresses his emotions - he's well aware of the fact that he has these ugly, negative emotions festering in his own heart but lets the emotions slip out 'cause it's a primary self-motivator for why he wants to eliminate spirit from the world, as he feels nothing positive he feels is truly real and that anything negative that comes about due to him acting upon his darker emotions can be absolved in the long run if he's working towards ending all emotions anyway and will make those emotions and those actions cease to matter once he remakes the world. He starts having a Villainous Breakdown late into the climactic battle, but it ends in a way that's surprisingly more understated than Cyrus' breakdowns in the games, veering closer to Villainous BSoD, particularly when it seems the universe is going to be wiped out and leave not any new world, but just total emptiness behind. Then of course there's how he does his part in helping to save existence from Dialga and Palkia's clash, how he and Hareta's father Kaisei help each other out while imprisoned by Charon, and how he leads a charge against Charon, declaring that Charon cares only for wealth and personal power (in Charon's own words "Money is what makes the world go round!", something he believes is inherent to human nature and is unapologetic about it) and is turning Team Galactic into a tool for helping him achieve those ends, which was never what the organization was meant to be. As twisted as Cyrus was, he at least had a well-meaning ideology that he believed in and encouraged his followers to share in that belief and have the same convictions, as opposed to Charon, who's a cold-hearted cynic who doesn't have anything to believe in aside from material gain and the acquisition of power just to boost his own ego, and would use, step all over, and discard anyone, even those in his own team, for that sake.
Competition? - The only other Big Bad in the story is Charon in Volumes 6 to 8, who as covered is a Complete Monster and Smug Snake extraordinaire. So no competition for Cyrus here!
Conclusion? - While I lean toward , I could see this going either way.
Edited by ANewMan on Sep 28th 2019 at 9:28:04 AM
Goku Black
Cyrus
to Cyrus.
to Cyrus
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
Sure to Cyrus.
J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
to Cyrus
- Secret Histories: Grendel Rex, real name Gerard Drood, is a man who desired to be a god and crve his face into the moon after the death of his beloved wife Elspeth. Trying to usurp and recreate humanity, Gerard allowed his family to defeat and seal him away so he could return later when they grew complacent. Gerard manipulates villains such as Edmund Drood, knowing Edmund will require the help of Gerard, and allow Gerard to usurp the plan later. After this, Gerard begins to put his plan into motion, only to cease when he meets Morgana le Fay, the two falling in love at first sight. Departing, Gerard leaves the hero Eddie with one last piece of knowledge: that the face he tried to sear into the woman was that of Elspeth's.
The Draftsman of Doom
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
Cyrus
Yea to Cyrus.
I was thinking about making a post for a character from the Toei Yu-Gi-Oh anime, Aileen Rao. In her focus episode she's set up as an evil counterpart to Yami Yugi and Tea, uses trickery and hypnotism to sway opponents and nearly beats Yami Yugi twice, develops a crush on Yugi, is on a first-name basis with Seto Kaiba, takes losing gracefully, and turns good at the end.
When she reappears in a later episode for Death-T, however, she's back to being evil with no explanation, gets only a handful of lines, and none of her previous characterization is delved into. (She does get a good showing by being a physical fighter, though.) Does being an MB take in all of a character's appearance or would one episode work?
Edited by lalalei2001 on Sep 29th 2019 at 6:53:30 AM
The Protomen enhanced my life.
No, we consider the entire run of a character when assessing a character for this trope.
Ok, cool! (Why, writers!? Why!? XD)
The Protomen enhanced my life.
A total has-been.
Here's a writeup for DPA!Cyrus:
- Pokémon: Diamond and Pearl Adventure!: Cyrus, leader of Team Galactic, is a brilliant minded Visionary Villain who seeks to destroy the existing world by resetting time using Dialga's powers and then creating a new world in it's place where all living things would be stripped of emotion and free will, and he'd reign over it as it's god. Despite being notably more emotional and unhinged than his game counterpart, Cyrus possesses self awareness of his darkest emotions and this keeps him motivated in his ambitions to rewrite existence so that it may be rid of such emotions. Often thinking many steps ahead of the heroes, Cyrus was able to rationalize his actions no matter how deadly as being Necessarily Evil for the sake of a better future, and he has just enough charisma to sway many into following his lead without letting any of them know of his true plans. His battle prowess and dedication to his cause consistently manages to impress Hareta despite him knowing that Cyrus is acting in the wrong, and Cyrus in turn becomes impressed by Hareta enough for him to rethink his ways. When Dialga and Palkia's fight threatens to tear apart all of existence, Cyrus divulges a working strategy for stopping this from coming to pass, and when he returns to lead his old followers in the charge against Charon, all of them get behind him without question due to how bold and inspirational a leader he is, despite the fact that he'd mistreated or even tried to kill them in the past.
Lizzid people!
Alright, so here goes the first fan song.
What is the work?
GatoPaint is a YouTuber known for his different songs, most notably his Five Nights At Freddys songs.
Who is the candidate? What has it done?
From his FNAF-inspired song "The Puppet" comes the eponymous Puppet/Marionette. Originally appearing in Five Nights at Freddy's 2, the Puppet is one of the animatronics introduced at Freddy Fazbear's Pizza in 1987. The Puppet already has an otherworldly feel behind it, but as it states in the song itself, there is more to it than meets the eye.
The Puppet is revealed to be the progenitor of the animatronics. Shortly after the deaths of the children that were murdered by the Purple Man later becoming known as "William Afton"), the Puppet brings the animatronics to life (give gifts/give life) with the souls of the slain children, thus giving them their chance to get revenge on their killer (I'm the guilty one behind/Those children look happy inside/Let me set your place around the others).
From there, the night guard tries to survive the five nights when the animatronics are on the prowl. Your goal is to keep the Puppet from leaving its box by winding its music box. But the Puppet makes it clear that if the other animatronics hadn't killed you, it most assuredly will once you stop winding its music box.
Is it charming? Can it think on its feet?
Granted the animatronics life as a means of getting revenge on the killer and later takes the initiative to hunt the night guard down itself if the animatronics failed to capture/kill them. It pretty much alludes to being The Chessmaster by comparing the other animatronics and the night guard as chess pieces. For the most part the Puppet comes off as Faux Affably Evil who is genuinely playful in most sections of the song.
Is it a Bastard? Too much of one?
Well, the Puppet brought the animatronics to life with the souls of the dead children, and basically sends them out to kill the night guard under the assumption that they're the killer. But at the end of it, the thing about the Puppet is that it genuinely wants to avenge the deaths that were caused by Afton making it a Knight Templar. That, and the song implicates that the Puppet is one of Afron's murder victims (which is confirmed later in Freddy Fazbear's Pizzeria Simulator).
Competition
None really. The song was made about 2 years before the events of Five Nights at Freddy's: Sister Location so the Puppet wouldn't have had to compete with the likes of Circus Baby.
Conclusion
Unsure for the most part, but leaving this up for you guys to decide.
Edited by AustinDR on Sep 29th 2019 at 1:43:58 AM
