Condemned by History is a problem trope for many reasons. It leads to edit warring and confusion over what qualifies. In this thread we'll look for bad examples, and look for feedback. Here are the guidelines for this trope:
- The franchise has to be truly popular and loved at first. Things that are So Bad, It's Horrible don't count.
- Simply losing popularity isn't enough. We need to see an actual backlash, with liking it being considered bizarre. Otherwise, every not-so-famous film or concluded television series would be here.
Let's go!
Edited by GastonRabbit on Mar 16th 2024 at 4:23:01 AM
Same, especially since what we call "Astroturf" is still around. It's not the original astroturf, but more an improved version.
Nintendo Fanatic Extraordinaire
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Plenty of professional sports stadiums use artificial turf, even to this day (and some of them are almost as good as natural grass).
On the entry about the "angry reviewer" style, I want to contest this part:
- Nowadays, the only shows that survive with this style are [...] JonTronnote .
A few things:
1. If JonTron phased out the style for another one, can we really say that he "survives with this style"?
2. JonTron has been in numerous controversies over the years, and they're usually political related. Just a few days ago, he made some tweets criticizing Anthony Fauci, which is all I will say about that. Thus, the way the entry is written feels like it's glossing over his controversies.
Edited by toonyloon on Oct 26th 2021 at 10:40:29 AM
To answer your question, not at all.
I'd just delete the entire mention. If he changed his style, then what happened to him afterward isn't relevant to the entry.
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Though I wouldn't say Jon's politics are really relevant here either way. The example was about the Caustic Critic style, and Jon's controversies had nothing to do with his actual show. For the most part, people seem to think he's tolerable when he sticks to complaining about video games and weird products and movies, but that his political opinions are trash that he should shut up about. Him getting into trouble because of dumb shit he said outside of his show's context has nothing to do with whether or not he survived on being a Caustic Critic.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
kiby :]
Has Jon Tron’s political incidents ever impacted his videos? I remember the hiatuses and the existence of his deleted response video, though I don’t remember if there were any dislike bombs or mass hate comments.
(Semi-ignore this post, I kinda missed the point.)
Edited by ATricksterArtist on Oct 27th 2021 at 1:32:16 PM
(Don't) take me home.
Would The Band Perry count as Condemned by History? Their music gets almost no mention anymore, except for retroactive discussion about how unhinged the lyrics are. "If I Die Young" was a huge crossover with almost no staying power. Nearly every discussion about them is "wow, the Band Perry really went off the rails" and their later pop albums have literally zero media buzz. I've been in several country music circles and almost no one will admit to being a TBP fan anymore
This was recently added:
- At the time of its release The Force Awakens was well received and was seen as a solid action movie with likeable characters, as well as a return to form for Star Wars after the polarizing prequels. However in the following years, especially after the mixed reception of The Last Jedi and The Rise of Skywalker, many people began to reevaluate it more negatively, arguing that several controversial elements of the Sequel Trilogy (recycled plot, inconsistent world building, vague motivations of several characters and the undoing of the happy ending of Return of The Jedi) were actually present from the beginning.
Edited by fragglelover on Oct 31st 2021 at 1:53:09 PM
Yeah, no that doesn't quite work.
Calendar enthusiast
Yeah, people were calling The Force Awakens a rehash of the original trilogy as soon as it was released. I was one of those people.
Ukrainian Red Cross
@Twentington Was there any backlash towards The Band Perry at any point in time? Or were they like Toby Keith or Hinder in that they embodied the worst aspects of a subgenre?
^ There really wasn't any contemporary to compare TBP to. They were kind of doing their own thing all along, and instantly went from "new fresh sound that everyone loves" to "oh god why did anyone make a hit out of this".
To be a Master
I think what is being Condemned by History is the myth that Star Wars would be great without George Lucas involved that was going around at that time.
Everyone was so happy that Lucas was gone, and Abrams was at the helm. Star Wars was saved... until the rest of the ST came out and it's revealed there was no actual story direction, with the excuses of the more controversial aspects of ST, like Luke's portrayal, now suddenly being part of Lucas' original script treatment.
And then the news entertainment media now has this epiphany that toxic fandoms are to be blamed for the divisive reaction to the ST, a fandom that they encouraged and catered during the PT era. And of course this retroactively made the media go "Mea Culpa" over their gleeful trashing on the PT when it's revealed just how the negativity actually nearly killed some actors, especially with Ahmed Best.
In a sense, it was part of the downfall of the Caustic Critic trend, just localized in the fandom.
Edited by Shadao on Nov 2nd 2021 at 12:20:53 PM
Star Wars: The Force Awakens definitely doesn't count as condemned by history at all.
I think it's more of a Fallen Creator case for Kathleen Kennedy and/or JJ Abrams. They were praised for making The Force Awakens, then later movies in the sequel trilogy revealed that they didn't really plan out the overall story, which has been a frequent criticism of Abrams for years. But is is not the thread for that; we have a Fallen Creator cleanup thread.
Is Last Tango in Paris Condemned by History, or is it just Overshadowed by Controversy?
No longer active.
From my observations, it leans closer to the latter. It has an 83% critics' score and a 76% audience score on Rotten Tomatoes, for one (which, granted, isn't 100% representative, but still says something).
Two new additions.
When M2 revealed in 2021 that they were going to be spending the next several years dedicating the M2 ShotTriggers line of otherwise highly-regarded shmup ports to reviving Toaplan games (under the Toaplan Arcade Garage banner), with the first set being Tiger Heli and Twin Cobra, fans of M2's previous ShotTriggers rereleases (such as those of Battle Garegga and Ketsui) scratched their heads over why the hell they should pay 4,000 yen to play two 80s games that they consider to be overhyped and as products of their time (and another 2,000 yen for the console version DLC) when they could've been released as much cheaper Arcade Archives rereleases by Hamster instead.
Granted, modern bullet hell games have that memetic "omg impossible, if you master these games you can dodge rain" reputation, but at least they're designed to be fair, with more reasonable game lengths, better tools for the player to defend themselves with, and enemies designed to challenge the player without being absurdly cheap. In the eyes of many shmup players, Toaplan games are not fair and a stepping stone for the genre at best.
Although the entry does mention some backlash, as the whole it's closer to Seinfeld Is Unfunny than Condemned by History IMO. It does note some shortcoming at game design, but more is focus on "not as good as newer titles".
What exactly the backlash hit? Is it the rape scene itself, ot that the actress was tricked to do it? Because if it's the latter then it's Overshadowed by Controversy (and from the last sentence, this is likely the case).
He/Him
That first example is also just a huge wall of text
Seinfeld Is Unfunny seems more like "this looks derivative/samey nowadays rather than the breakthrough it was at its time" rather than "was well liked then and hated now".
I could trim it down if needed.
Edited by LucaEarlgrey on Nov 10th 2021 at 1:49:58 AM
Never Ask Me For Anything Ever Again
For Last Tango in Paris, I would say the extreme Values Dissonance of the filming for the butter scene is why this it would qualify for this trope - with the #MeToo movement and how more films are now using coordinators specifically for sex scenes, something like this has basically been condemned by pretty everyone at this point for how it treated the female lead of the film.
"Shout, shout, let it all out These are the things I can do without, come on I'm talking to you, come on!" -Tears For Fears
RJ Savoy
But if I understand the entry, this crucial fact was not known when the film came out. New facts changing its perception is a different thing from later re-evaluations of the work in itself judging it differently. I would put it under Overshadowed.
Lucas the Dreamer
I think the Last Tango in Paris entry should be cut since it’s decline in reputation is due to behind the scenes abuse rather than an issue within the film itself.
Edited by TheLivingDrawing on Nov 10th 2021 at 6:49:17 AM
Why waste time when you can see the last sunset last?
I agree that it doesn't belong. It is not condemned, simply obsolete. Its problems were known from very early on.
Stories don't tell us monsters exist; we knew that already. They show us that monsters can be trademarked and milked for years.