Condemned by History cleanup thread

Mods can rename threads; we could holler and ask.

This trope has officially been renamed Condemned by History. Someone should probably holler to have the thread renamed.

Hollered.

Done.

I have my doubts since his channel has about 1.24 M subscribers and in general, his like-dislike bar has been mostly positive in recent years, his videos are more in-line with modern reviewers (such as being analytical, informative, a lot longer), and the fact the TV Tropes thread still talks about his reviews with highlights every time. Not to mention that apparently, James Rolfe still does videos with him even after the Channel Awesome implosion. Or that their charity work still remains unaffected. Granted, there is a significant decrease in terms of views but it's evident there's enough views to keep CA going.

Like many angry reviewers, Doug simply adapted to the new standards.

If there's anything that's Condemned by History, it would be the early years of the Nostaglia Critic or more accurately, the Shared Universe that Channel Awesome made during the height of its popularity. If you were to look at a modern Nostalgia Critic video, you will find little to no reference to the old days like the Critic being in a Plot Hole or a three shmuck crossover with Linkara and Spoony. And whenever the Critic does bring up the old days, it's always in a manner of Old Shame and mockery, with the past Nostalgia Critic being utterly destroyed by modern reception and the modern Critic explaining why times have changed. The old videos on the You Tube are buried under a ton of playlists and likely for archival purpose.

That would be a legit Condemned by History example, but not the actual Channel Awesome itself since it stands doing Internet reviews they always have since 2007.

Edited by Shadao on Mar 3rd 2021 at 6:02:11 AM

I guess one could make a good argument for the Channel Awesome anniversary movies, since they were quite popular with the site's fans when they were first released, but now are generally not remembered fondly by both fans and the people who worked on them.

At the very least, To Boldly Flee is pretty much universally hated. The others are more mixed AFAIK since the cast at least (mostly) enjoyed making Kickassia and Suburban Knights.

One thing I notice may be a problem is the use of Real Life as a folder. That will certainly invite other interpretations of the phrase Condemned by History, particularly those that involve political parties. The National Socialists (aka Nazis) come to mind.

Perhaps change to Other? I'm not sure myself.

Could someone do a write up for To Boldly Flee if it qualifies?

OK War Jay 77

Edited by magnumtropus on Mar 8th 2021 at 6:14:40 AM

I can try if nobody else wants to.

It was brought up earlier on the thread that the drink Zima is listed on the trope. Does this trope allow things that aren't works or creators? Because if it doesn't, Zima can't be listed.

I mean, in a technical sense Zima is a "work" since it was created by someone- but that's getting into semantics.

Does Disco itself count as a work? It's a genre, not a single work or creator, but that's also splitting hairs.

Genres are listed, I forgot to mention that in my post. I believe genres are allowed for this trope.

I was talking about Real Life things. Is this trope like Overshadowed by Controversy where stuff like that is allowed? Or are these types of things not allowed? (IMO it should be the latter, since there are definitely cases where something that isn't a work, genre, or creator can become Condemned by History.)

I think Real Life should be allowed. I can think of many, many things (such as political beliefs, architecture, fashion, and even a race track) that have become Condemned by History.

Yeah, I agree.

Hi there, just wondering about this entry on Music:

"Emo Music, specifically the 'emo-pop' that burst into the mainstream in the early-mid 2000s. Popularized by bands such as Fall Out Boy and My Chemical Romance, it experienced considerable backlash in the last couple of years of the decade, to the point where artists previously considered to be at the heart of the scene were publicly mocking it. By The New '10s, groups that had formerly embraced the style had either disbanded or modified their sound, the labels 'emo' and 'scenester' had become epithets and insults among young people, and modern metalcore/scenecore, electronicore, and certain deathcore acts took their place as emo culture gradually transformed into scene. By 2017, there was evidence of a little nostalgia for the genre though - "Emo Nights" were being hosted in multiple populous US cities, wherein DJs would play "emo" songs from the early to mid-2000s and the attendees (usually those who were teenagers in the genre's heyday) would often sing along to their old favorites. Those club nights ran parallel to the rising indie popularity of "emo revival" bands like Modern Baseball, although the style of music they play hews closer to the late '90s midwest emo sound than 2000s emo-pop."

I'm not really sure if emo music has really been condemned by disco. The backlash against emo, even as an insult, was always there to begin with. Emo works like FOB's earlier work and MCR still have far more likes than dislikes on places like Youtube, and I've seen some people have nostalgia for it. I also think that having a small revival in popularity makes the entry contestable.

Casting a lot of doubt on that.

• The statements beginning "By 2017" seem to turn that into not-Condemned by History.
• On Emo Music: "Emo-pop continues to be hugely successful into The New '10s, with Fall Out Boy, Panic! at the Disco, Paramore, Twenty One Pilots and All Time Low more popular than ever."
• This is anecdotal, but I hear a lot of "emo pop" still when I turn to the alt rock/modern rock radio station, so apparently it and its listeners haven't gotten the message that the genre's supposed to be dead.

Edited by Tabs on Mar 26th 2021 at 5:04:02 AM

There's also the fact that My Chemical Romance, one of the most popular emo bands, has announced a comeback a while ago.

This was just added:

• Shark Tale was a very financially successful film that earned a nomination for Best Animated Feature, regardless of the critics raking it over the coals. Now, though, it is seen as Dream Works' low point. From the unsettling character design, to the sheer unlikability of its protagonist, to its confusing tone. Despite DreamWorks making many great movies since, Shark Tale is seen as an amalgimation of everything people don't like about their movies.

"Regardless of the critics raking it over the coals" implies it wasn't very popular to begin with. And it is mostly just complaining anyway. Permission to cut?

I suggest you should cut the example here.

I personally think the emo example should be cut since the entry itself concedes that the backlash has died down and has gained a significant nostalgic following. Additionally, the recent rise of the emo rap genre proves that emo is still highly influential among current-day musicians beyond mere nostalgia.

So three people in favor of cutting the emo music example. I'll wait until I get around five more and I'll cut it with this reason:

Cutting per cleanup thread. The proof that people feel nostalgia for the genre, not to mention bands from the genre still going strong or reuniting, is a sign that the genre isn't dead.

Emo music is not Condemned by History. There has been a re-evaluation of the scene recently, hell Anthony Fantano gave MCR a Classic review last year. It might fit Popularity Polynomial however.

I'll remove it then.

This also just got added by Infinity183. Any consensus?

• During the presidency of George H. W. Bush, Paula Abdul was so successful that she rivaled Madonna and Janet Jackson in sales and airplay. Within a matter of years though, she was perceived as shallow and second-rate. Her reputation was tarnished when it was revealed that she had used weight-thinning cameras in the music video for "The Promise of a New Day", and after her 1995 album Head over Heels bombed, her career was all but completely destroyed. Today, she's seen as a relic of '80s kitsch, if not just the nice judge from American Idol, rather than a pop cultural icon like her previous contemporaries. She never put out a followup album to Head over Heels and has only released two songs since 1996, both of which were fueled by American Idol rather than late '80s/early '90s nostalgia.

Infinity183 also added this entry recently:

• Bobby Brown was the Breakup Breakout star of New Edition upon the release of his blockbuster sophomore album Don't Be Cruel and was virtually synonymous with the new-jack swing movement. All this changed after 1992, when not only did his album that year Bobby yield disappointing sales, but he got married Whitney Houston. With the downfall of new-jack swing in the mid-'90s, he swiftly became associated with negative tabloid press concerning his relationship with Whitney, while his music turned into an afterthought. His career appeared to be back on trace when he rejoined New Edition for their 1996 comeback, but it wasn't long before his continued instability got him banished a second time. After the near-nonexistent success of his following solo effort Forever, he more or less vanished into obscurity. Nowadays, he's vilified for his bad influence on Whitney Houston, especially after her tragic death in 2012, and very few people will still admit to being a fan of his, even if a few of his songs still get a bit of play.

I'm somewhat iffy on this entry since it sounds more like the musician being Overshadowed by Controversy than a backlash against the music itself. Should it be cut?

Edited by Pemulis_128 on Mar 28th 2021 at 11:56:39 AM