A Single Unified LGBT Character Thread

Oh are you really so insulted by the one swear word used for emphasis of how fucked up your idea was?

Swear word I can take, that attitude though.

Everyone's mindset differs from person to person, to me I will get a sex change (or transgender) if it means they will like me more, but that's because I never cared about my own gender (or sex) that sort of stuff, I just like that person and don't care about my gender (or... you get it) identity.

But then again you will just say that "I JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND", isn't it? Why will I understand? I'm not you.

Which is why I'm here asking you question. Isn't it?

But that doesn't matter, because I'm just someone who don't understand, and shouldn't understand because I don't understand.

Everyone have their own priority, and maybe you shouldn't call someone fucked up for wanting to change for what they love, call them sick for pursuing their happiness just because they are different from you.

It's not like "They want me to get bigger breasts so I complied.", it's "They like someone with big breasts, which I don't have, so they don't like me, but I really like them, enough for a plastic surgery."

Edited by Andermann on Apr 12th 2019 at 7:55:12 PM

You have very clearly came in here with zero knowledge about the topic. If you are here to try and "understand" things, then what exactly have you gained so far? And which of things said still doggedly elude being understood?

Edited by Adannor on Apr 12th 2019 at 3:18:55 PM

Okay then in light of that I'll just let somebody else deal with you.

Yes, can someone answer my question? The first one?

Edited by Andermann on Apr 12th 2019 at 8:51:02 PM

Okay, your first question is actually something I've considered writing a bit about.

When I was planning a story based on the disappointment that a close friend of compatible sexuality might wouldn't feel the same way the protagonist would, the protagonist also has a friendship with a more experienced lesbian that can sometimes give him advice, and I had this idea that he might ask her if it's any easier when your unrequited love isn't the right orientation, and in the first draft, she slaps him for how irrelevant that question is, because if she's not into you, she's not into you, and the reason doesn't matter.

I'm not so sure I'll write it anything like that, because it seems to have a lot of unhelpful stereotypes in it.

Some people might think that incompatible orientations would feel less personal than other reasons for rejection, but YMMV on that, and it wouldn't be unique to gay people anyway.

I could try to address the second question as well by clearing out what different terms mean and whatnot, but I won't bother if you've decided to drop it.

What stereotypes about bi people/bisexuality should I be aware of when writing? In my SWTOR fic I'm working on one of the POV characters is bi, and since I'm not LGBT I want to make sure I don't accidentally write in any stereotypes that might've been ingrained through media portrayal of them.

Write them as a person who happens to be bi, first. That'll be half the battle.

Bisexuality doesn't get as much attention in the media as homosexuality does. The stereotypes I hear about are that they're only claiming they're bi for attention/it's a phase (an accusation often levied at women), or that they're just promiscuous and want it all, or that they must really prefer only one gender. All of this falls under bi erasure, and is practiced sometimes even by others who are gay or lesbian. Aside from the aforementioned promiscuity and attention-seeking (implied or otherwise), actual bisexuality doesn't really have any defined character types of its own the way homosexuality has (Butch Lesbian, Camp Gay, etc.), largely because of the societal belief that it can't be real.

I feel the bigger challenge here is avoiding But Not Too Bi, which is its own flavor of erasure- claiming a character is bi but making nearly all of their depicted relationships be with one sex, or diminishing their relationships with one sex and not the other. Note that it's much rarer for a bi character in fiction to swing closer to the same gender than it is for a bi character to prefer the opposite gender.

With the first part, good, 'cause that's my approach to writing characters in general. Character traits are just that: traits. Nobody is ever just one part of themselves.

Does having casual relationships or flings fall under the scope of promiscuity? He does have a boyfriend for several years, but after that relationship ends (and tragically) he doesn't have the heart for anything more serious, and I'd hate for that to come off as stereotypical.

I'm a lesbian myself, but the issues I've seen for bi people within the LGBTQ+ community include:

• The idea that a bi partner will inevitably cheat on you with someone of the opposite gender.
• Bi women especially being called straight if they're presently in a relationship with someone of the opposite gender.
  • Similarly, erasure of bi people who lean one way or the other in their attraction, or have only had relationships with members of one gender for other reasons (e.g. living in a homophobic community).
• Claiming being bi is transphobic (this is a very niche prejudice, as most people who hate bisexuals in the community also happen to be transphobic), based on various sorts of Insane Troll Logic.
  • Conversely, a lot of transphobes lump being bi in with being trans (also with various sorts of ITL).
• In some of the more conservative parts of the community, treating bi people as confused LG people or "straight" people trying to infiltrate the LGBTQ+ community (which makes very little sense when you think it though). Bi is also flung around as an insult by transphobes at LG people who date LG trans people.
  • Similarly, the idea that being bi is a stepping stone to being "fully" LG.
  • NB: A lot of people who're questioning their sexuality might pick the wrong label at first. This can lead to bi people who previously identified as LG or LG people who previously identified as bi worrying they're perpetuating these stereotypes.
• Claiming there's no such thing as prejudice towards bi people and that it's just "misdirected homophobia"; naturally while indulging in everything on this list (similar claims are made towards lesser known sexualities and trans people).

Edited by Bisected8 on Apr 14th 2019 at 1:28:57 PM

Hi.

I'm putting a trans side character in a fanfic I'm writing. The guy grew up in an orphanage, and is old enough to be allowed to move out. He had a few job prospects outside the orphanage, but they are currently unable to hire or claim to have offered a future job only to his pre-transition self. At some point, I have him mention the latter group by casually saying they went all "we wanted to hire [his old female name]" on him.

In spite of being a cis woman myself, my view of gender is some kind of spectrum between male and female, and I hence have trouble "getting" how uncomfortable it is to be misgendered or called by an old name for trans people. (If someone called me sir, I would correct them, but not feel angry or uncomfortable) I'm thinking of making the character just be someone who isn't bothered by it that much, under the logic that while many trans people are made very uneasy by their old names or misgendering, it doesn't mean they all are. His dysphoria may end up getting a similar treatment.

I thought I could use input from actual trans people on both the character's situation and how I'm handling it.

Edited by Nazetrime on Apr 17th 2019 at 4:23:11 PM

Now, this I can speak first hand about.

The relationship a trans person has with their deadname (the term for an assigned at birth name a trans person no longer uses) can vary a lot, but it's rarely good.^{personal experience} I can deal with hearing my deadname (in fact I know a couple of trans men who use it), but being called it directly is like being struck in the face with a blunt object — even getting a letter or email addressed to it makes me do a double take; I can't even play what should have been one of my favourite games of all time because the main character's called it (and addressed by it by every other character).:

• A person's deadname is often more or less tied to their old pronouns, so being addressed by it isn't that different to being incorrectly called "Sir/Madame".
• Many transphobes will weaponise a person's deadname by deliberately calling them by it; digging up a trans person's deadname and old photos is so common a way of harassing/outing a trans person as to be a cliché.
  • The general protocol is to never reveal a trans person's deadname unless absolutely necessary (i.e. involving old paperwork) — if they don't use it, you're only going to confuse people anyway. Even if many cis people don't understand this, it's unlikely that a trans person will reveal their deadname casually to someone who doesn't know it (even if they're openly trans).
• If a trans person isn't openly trans, then deadnaming them is essentially outing them as such (which, as you know, is unacceptable for any LGBTQ+ identity).
• Some trans people can disassociate a deadname from themselves in their mind, but this is difficult, might not be perfect, and not always possible. Especially if they transitioned when they were in their late teens or older (as the majority of trans people have to) and have a lot of memories attached to it. In the politest way possible, I'd say it's not for a cis person to write an exception to this reality in a respectful manner.
• Some trans people might have more than one deadname; either because they took more than one attempt to understand their gender (e.g. a trans man or trans woman who spent some time identifying as nonbinary or vis versa), or because they went through multiple names before finding one they liked.
• From another perspective, the process of changing your name is time consuming and often expensive. A lot of trans people might be annoyed if you don't respect their name by that alone.
• The exception to the above (as with all misgendering) is when it's necessary to avoid outing someone as trans (e.g. a trans kid who isn't out to transphobic parents; a non passing trans person trying to avoid being hassled before they get their paperwork sorted).

If you want an example of a good piece of media made by a cis person with input from trans people, which makes a plot point of a trans character's deadname, see The Missing JJ Mac Field And The Island Of Memories. Also note Val and Isaac, (also written by a cis author/artist) which manages to make a joke about a trans character's deadname without ever revealing it.

I would also suggest ContraPoints's video "Pronouns" (as noted above, a trans person's correct pronouns are inseparable from their correct name):

Edited by Bisected8 on Apr 17th 2019 at 4:13:09 PM

I think I figured out a possible solution. (I apologize in advance for anything tone-deaf)

The setting is one where paperwork technically exists, but has yet to become as heavy and organized as it is in most developed countries, so name changes could be as simple as putting everyone who has your name on a registry in the loop, but individual discretion from clerk to clerk could still exist. There could be some places that refused to change the character's name in their records, then didn't want to hire him because his name wasn't in their records. His rant about them could hence reference his "old name" without stating it ^note (I know it's not my place, but the term "deadname" rubs me the wrong way for some reason, so I'm using what I understand to be an acceptable alternative, which is also what I plan to go with in the fictional setting).

Anybody have advice on the realism of relatively mild dysphoria, or advice to write a realistic level of it? All I manged to pick up about it so far is the following:

1. Really dislike being naked in public (say public bath settings for example).
2. For trans men, periods suck even more and they'll be wearing a binder.

Edited by Nazetrime on Apr 17th 2019 at 9:45:26 PM

Yep, a Narrative Profanity Filter style way of avoiding mentioning his deadname is a good idea (I and most other trans people I know prefer stories that don't mention a trans character's dead name; although a Coming-Out Story naturally gets more leeway).

"Old name" isn't ideal (it's not simply a matter of being a previous name; a deadname's out of use, in the same way as a dead language), and while feeling "uncomfortable" with the word isn't the end of the world, it's...kinda disrespectful to refuse to use the terminology we use for ourselves.

As for dysphoria...that's a fairly complicated subject. I'll add more about it later, because I'm about to go to bed.

I think I actually got the message about "deadname", this time. I realized it was the currently used term only a few weeks ago, and my brain tends to take its sweet time completely assimilating and getting comfortable with just about any social rule I learn, and tends to put things I assume I won't need on a daily basis on the back of the queue. In the meantime, I can come across as a little rude, if not outright disrespectful.

Actually, I'm quite generally in a grey area where the very concept of being against equal rights for minorities is quite baffling to me, but I'm constantly many steps behind in terms of my deeper understanding of people's everyday struggles, on top of having sub-standard social skills. Self-awareness of the latter part is why I'm here in the first place.

EDIT: After getting a second opinion about it, it turns out what I had written here was more inappropriate then I thought it was and basically a full-on demonstration of what I mention in the previous paragraph. Decided to take it away.

Edited by Nazetrime on Apr 20th 2019 at 5:25:21 PM

Double-posting to make sure my edit is seen, apologize for the edited-out part and anything else in the post that may have bothered people, and mention I just found another that works better for me, so I don't need to come here anymore.

Edited by Nazetrime on Apr 20th 2019 at 5:33:59 PM

I have a question: How young does someone have to be in order to start hormone replacement therapy or transition? I'm planning on writing a fic where one of the main characters is a Mt F transgender girl who begins the fic at 13 years old. She presents as female all the time and I'm planning on having her already be on hormones. Is there an age limit as to when someone can start hormone replacement therapy or start transitioning, or can they start as young as possible? I tried looking it up and asking someone else about it, but I didn't get any good results. I want to know before I write anything so as to make sure I don't get details wrong.

Generally, a trans person won't start HRT until they're 18 but it varies (an older teen might be allowed to do so with informed consent).

A child who comes out before puberty might be put on puberty blockers in the mean time (which prevent puberty^note They're given to children who are deemed to have started it too early as well, but allow it to continue as normal if the child comes off them).

A child who comes out after puberty can't take blockers, and probably won't begin HRT until they're old enough.

You can socially transition at any age (and before puberty, that's all you need anyway).

Cool! Thanks for the help! Now I have an idea of how I can go about it.

I stumbled across this thread, started reading, and whaddya know, a few questions occurred to me.

I have a question about demisexuality. If I understand it correctly (I'm fully prepared for the possibility that I don't understand it correctly), it's about having reduced or nonexistent sexual impulses towards strangers and mere acquaintances. My question is this: Does it still count as demisexuality if one of the reasons the character has is a Properly Paranoid suspicion that tropes like Honey Trap and Go Seduce My Arch Nemesis are either already common or going to become common in that character's circumstance?

I happened to follow an earlier external link to a "you might be aromantic if" webpage and thought, "Huh, I think I might be on that spectrum." And then I realized that I tend to put little bits of myself (as applicable) into the characters I write, so I started wondering if a significant ratio of the interpersonal bonds between members of my Amazon Brigade could be accidental examples of mutual "squishes". Warning: If I were to start listing specific examples, the Loads And Loads Of Characters would easily lead to a Wall of Text. My questions are these: Squishes can happen regardless of the involved characters' romantic and sexual tendencies, right? Are there specific signs that I can look for that would confirm a squish? Is there a way to differentiate squishes from Ship Tease that'll keep the accusations of queerbaiting the audience to a minimum?

Edited by Miss_Desperado on May 19th 2019 at 10:42:33 AM

This is my first time posting in this thread. I hope I can try and explain well enough about my characters in a way that explains it well.

My setting is Present Day - well, 2018 (so not quite in sync with Real Time) and it's obviously dated to it by references in the work - but could that be treated as a Period Piece ?

I'm focused on an area of Greater Manchester, England (maybe Bolton, Greater Manchester, I have a tendency for Write What You Know for locations) that is Frozen in Time physically - it's got 1980s and 1990s cars on the street, 1970s housing and 1980s-style streetlighting and traffic signs, and hasn't changed since then physically there. (Justified Trope reason: it's an area Demoted to Extra by the local council and largely ignored). It's also Alternate History, in a sort of way.

One of my characters is LGBT, and although he's male biologically, I haven't quite decided whether he'd fit into:

• Genderfluid
• Genderqueer
• Non-binary

He has two names (both male and female) - but that's legal in England, since in the United Kingdom there is no such thing as a legal name (I've done my research as that).

Pronouns are "he/she" depending on which form he presents as.

He's attracted to women, same as his male self.

Personality-wise, he's a Nice Guy - not in the sense Dogged Nice Guy; he just genuinely is nice. No major Dark and Troubled Past in his backstory. He isn't a Non-Action Guy, but it's not relevant to the story.

In terms of gender identity:

• He isn't transgender in the sense of going from male to female and undergoing surgery, so probably would fit more as genderfluid, genderqueer or non-binary (correct me if I'm wrong)

Physically:

• He's not overly feminine-looking for a male, but certainly not overtly masculine-looking and stubbly - somewhere in the middle of those two extremes?
• He has a half-Canadian (Vancouver accent), half-Texan accent but has lived in the United Kingdom since he was 19 years old and never gone back to Canada (He's Canadian-American - or should that be American-Canadian - basically). In-Universe, his accent is considered distinctive.
• His height (6"1) - he's quite tall.

Two things are certain about him in terms of sexuality:

• He is not asexual
• He does not want to sleep around, prefers the security of a long-term relationship over one-night stands.

What I do want to avoid is him sounding like a Creepy Crossdresser and avoid cliches associated with LGBT.

In-Universe, he's more known for being someone who people can call on as a Knowledge Broker-type character - but not as a Plot Device-type Knowledge Broker, but a proper character. He's known more for that than for LGBT.

Would this make him a Punch-Clock Villain even though he's a freelancer Knowledge Broker?

I'm trying to avoid Intelligence Equals Isolation here.

Character-wise, he doesn't fit Manly Gay, Camp Gay, Straight Gay really - he's more individual, if you can think of a trope for that - without getting into Madness Tropes.

This character is 32 years old.

He's fairly new, and not really developed yet, but I would appreciate any advice on how to make them into a more developed, interesting character.

Edited by Merseyuser1 on May 19th 2019 at 12:08:05 PM

What's a good, succinct way to describe human sex and gender as though another species is talking about us? You can't just say there are two biological sexes because intersex presentation happens sometimes, but I don't think that the complexities of that category would make the one-line brief for aliens.

My initial thought is "two dominant sexes" or "two sexes barring anomalies", but those seem like not the best phrasing. Also probably note that it's irrelevant except for medical and conjugal situations.

And then the gender part would be something like, "humans will frequently present a gender that may be along a spectrum between masculine and feminine or eschew that spectrum."

This is becoming a paragraph. My goal was to fix a painfully recent example of an alien being fascinated that "humans are bigendered" when discussing reproduction.