Five-Man Band cleanup

Cut the South Park example and noted in the page source that the example needs to be approved here first. I'd also like to note that unlike Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard, there's no note on Five-Man Band saying that all examples must be approved in this thread first.

Because they don't. Not really. Not as far as I know, anyway.

If that's the case, it's news to me. On the Locked Pages Thread's sticky header, Five-Man Band is mentioned in the same section as Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard that says edits which aren't purely technical requests should be discussed in the cleanup threads first. Since CM and MB require examples to be approved in their threads, I thought the same applied to FMB. Why else would Five-Man Band be mentioned alongside them?

Edited by Kevjro7 on Jan 20th 2021 at 9:29:42 AM

I mean, I dunno. If they do need to be discussed here, it's not been enforced and it's kinda hard to enforce it with how inactive the thread is.

if someone chooses to post an example here, the people who are most active may take a look at it.

but otherwise if the definition/evolution conversation totally at an impasse, then there's no other clear purpose of this thread at present.

Should we just be constantly doing wick checks to cut shoehorning?

Edited by acrobox on Jan 23rd 2021 at 6:37:51 AM

I have doubts about this example on the trope page:

• Storm Hawks: The main squadron of Sky Knights.
  • The Leader: Aerrow, the Sky Knight who never fails to stand up to evil.
  • The Lancer: Finn, the team's self-absorbed sharp shooter. A Casanova Wannabe Jerk with a Heart of Gold.
  • The Smart Guy: Stork, Mr Fix It pilot of the ship who has knowledge about many obscure threats.
  • The Big Guy: Junko, the muscle of the team, a mechanic, weapons expert and a major softie.
  • The Chick: Piper, team's only girl and a perfectionist crystal specialist. Skilled, practical, and generally the closest to earth, making her the most qualified Number Two.

My issues are:

1. The team has two Smart Guys: Stork and Piper. And Piper might actually be the primary Smart Guy. She's the expert in crystals (the series' Phlebotinum), the navigator, makes plans, had a role of doing complicated calculations in one episode, and her overall role has been described as "Crystal mage! Plus, all the smart stuff." While Stork is a Mr. Fixit and Gadgeteer Genius, his knowledge of obscure threats is mostly played for laughs, except on some occasions when he turns out to be Properly Paranoid.
2. Finn as Lancer. Finn has traits that make him look like a Lancer — he's usually the first one listed after Aerrow in the team lineup; he's the only other human male; he wears blue to Aerrow's red; he's described as a wingman. (Not an exhaustive list.) But his relationship with Aerrow doesn't get much focus or significance. He probably has more significant interaction with every team member who isn't Aerrow.

Edited by Twiddler on Jan 25th 2021 at 5:51:23 AM

Bumping for input on .

The rules in the pinned post don't say anything about cases where multiple characters are eligible for a role. But if you have to pick one character over an equally eligible one to make it work, then it seems like maybe that shouldn't count.

Maybe there should be a rule added about that, to go with the "no shoehorning" one: "No cherrypicking."

Yeah, that sounds fair.

Okay then, how about adding this to the rules in the pinned post:

• No cherrypicking. This includes:
  • Picking one character for a role over an equally eligible character.

And moving this point:

• Ignoring members of the team to list "just the ones that fit". If the team is larger than five, then it's not a Five-Man Band. Period.

from under "no shoehorning" to "no cherrypicking".

(edited to make clearer for a mod looking at this out of context)

Edited by Twiddler on Jan 27th 2021 at 2:09:31 AM

Do we need more consensus for this, or shall I just holler to have the pinned post updated?

ETA: I'll just make the holler and let the mod(s) decide if we need more consensus first.

Edited by Twiddler on Jan 27th 2021 at 2:16:11 AM

I have two questions, just to ask em

Is there any weight to visually 'looking' the part. i.e. bright, dark, large, small, feminine that usually (but not always) maps to leader, lancer, big, smart, chick. That visual pattern seems to imply some amount of intent for "classic" examples that are more restricted on gender.

How does cherry picking apply if two characters can fit a role, but one also only fits one other. in this example one seems to wear both Chick and Smart hats, while the other only wears the Smart hat. Does that still qualify as a cherry pick to put the former in chick and latter in smart?

i think rescue rangers was a similar issue, of one character having multiple hats, and the team visually looking like the trope.

Edited by acrobox on Jan 27th 2021 at 11:18:42 AM

Updated the OP as requested.

I don't think appearance is too necessary. For example, a Pint-Sized Powerhouse can be The Big Guy.

I would say that's still cherrypicking, but probably best to get more opinions there.

It's cherrypicking if the roles are ambiguous enough to pick anyone, or if there are multiple candidates for a role.

got it

This isn't regarding an entry, but in the description, it lists The Chick's band role as “vocal effects, tambourine.” I thought the chick was usually considered the bassist? Bass is a part of the Rock Trio anyway. Should we change or leave as is?

Weren't we planning to change it? We just need to get a mod to do it for us.

If we can't do it now, we should probably do it after Always a Female Bassist gets launched.

I'm gonna launch it as soon as the crowner gets resolved, so you could help me out a lot by voting on a title.

Done!

There are currently 7 pages in the Five-Man Band namespace: Anime A To D, Anime E To H, Anime I To M, Anime N To R, Anime S To V, Anime W To Z, and Foot 2 Rue.

The last one is a French TV show's page, none of the examples have proper context, and most have more than 5 members/multiple people to a role/etc.

For the anime subpages, here are the groups that are more than just "role: name" and aren't on the current main page

• Duel Masters (as of the second season)
  • The Leader: Shobu duels and the rest cheer him on.
  • The Lancer: Hakuoh is Shobu's rival and The Stoic to contrast his Hot-Blooded nature.
  • The Smart Guy: Rekuta is short and wears glasses and a bowtie; he looks like a sterotypical nerd and gives exposition.
  • The Big Guy: Mimi demonstrates on several occasions that she is proficient in martial arts and far stronger than she looks.
  • The Chick: Sayuki; the cheerleader thing was her idea.

• Gash Bell (After the Zophise arc)
  • The Leader: Gash is the headstrong inspiring 'lead from the front' III/IV hybrid
  • The Lancer:Umagon fights close range to contrast Gash's projectiles and doesn't talk
  • The Big Guy: Wonlei is the tallest and a martial artist
  • The Smart Guy: Kanchome makes clever use of illusions; trickster-like
  • The Chick: Tio is the sole girl and The Medic

• Mahou Sensei Negima! - Baka Rangers
  • The Leader: Asuna (Red) because of the Type III (headstrong) personality
  • The Lancer: Ku Fei (Yellow) is perky and laid back while having a similar FLYING KICK fighting style.
  • The Big Girl: Kaede (Blue) because she's a Huge School Girl and a Ninja.
  • The Smart Girl: Yue (Black) is only in the group because she's too lazy to study. She's smart enough to pass on the first try. Funnily enough, in that she is referred to as "Baka Leader" by the other rangers.
  • The Chick: Makie (Pink) for being girly and pink hair and using gymnastics instead of martial arts

• The Rose of Versailles
  • The Leader: Oscar Francois de Jarjayes (the local Action Girl and main character)
  • The Lancer: Andre Grandier (Oscar's childhood friend and borderline Morality Pet. He's more agreeable than most Lancers, though)
  • The Big Guy: Alain de Soissons (to whom Oscar applies Defeat Means Friendship)
  • The Smart Guy: Bernard Chatelet (fast in making plans and strategies, an Intrepid Reporter)
  • The Chick: Rosalie Lamorliere (Oscar's close friend, very emotional and sensitive)

Is it safe to send the pages to the cutlist? They mostly seem to be remnants missed by the cleanup.

I noticed this trope was listed on the page for Tropical-Rouge! Pretty Cure, which is a magical girl anime involving a team of all girls, and the rules on the top of the forum state that these teams need to have only 1 or 2 girls. That in itself would disqualify it, correct? I wanted to check before I deleted the example from the page (plus, I think that even if an all-female group was allowed, 2 of the characters probably should have their roles switched).

Edited by Rainbow on Mar 13th 2021 at 8:34:55 AM

Ehhhhh. Because of Fast Eddie Fiat we can only have 2 girls to a team, but there's been a lot of debate over if the restriction should be dropped completely. It's complicated.

Yeah, those pages should be cut. The examples you found look okay and can probably move to the actual trope page.

I knew that the "how many girls should be allowed?" issue had been debated before, which is why I brought it up here rather than immediately deleting the example from the work's page.