Removing complaining, bashing and other negativity from the wiki

No none of them were intentional.

Edit: I cut them. As for moving them to Warp That Aesop. I have never edited the Darth Wiki before. Is there any rules there I need to know about beforehand.

Edited by Bullman on May 24th 2021 at 8:35:24 AM

Hey, would like to report something done by an user named Aquillion, who recently made massive edits in Beast: The Primordial where he removed most of the positive points and added more complains, which in at least two cases made the descriptions not match the tropes. Most notably, Critical Backlash now is all about the controversy around the game instead of being the opposite of Hype Backlash, and his removal of the positive side in Broken Base means that it's now all complains.

More details provided on this Ask the Troper trend.

Edited by Theokal3 on May 25th 2021 at 11:21:46 AM

I'm wondering, if Final Fantasy VIII is on the complaining sandbox, shouldn't Final Fantasy XII and Final Fantasy XV also be on the page too? Those games are really contentious with fans in the series.

Final Fantasy XV in particular, has a history of complainy edits being added to its pages, about as recent as this year, actually.

Edited by PlasmaPower on May 25th 2021 at 3:22:23 PM

Well, as always, if they attract lots of complaining that you can currently see on the pages, onto the Sandbox they go.

You don't really need to ask permission to add to the sandbox AFAIK, if you see something with lots of complaining just add it. That's what I do.

Edited by themayorofsimpleton on May 25th 2021 at 2:42:28 PM

Loads and Loads of Loading is about games that take a long time to load. This ain't a trope, just complaining, and it should either be in-universe only or cut.

Edited by Delibirda on May 25th 2021 at 8:47:54 PM

Looking through the on-page examples and I already see complaining and natter. It's already on Tropes Needing TRS. I may do a wick check in the future, but not right now as I am a bit preoccupied with stuff.

I see.

Directed here from the ROCEJ sinkhole removal thread:

This is on Trivia.Star Wars Doctor Aphra:

• Cowboy Be Bop At His Computer: A comparatively mild example that nonetheless ended up creating quite a ruckus in some online circles. This Screenrant article seems to be under the impression that Minister Pitina Mar-Mas Voor is revealed to be the real mastermind behind the Galactic Empire in Issue 36 and would've made a more effective leader than Palpatine. Nevermind that the issue in question never suggests any such thing; it's made obvious that Voor is an overconfident Smug Snake who isn't nearly as important as she thinks she is and is easily taken down by Dr. Aphra and Darth Vader, albeit she does make some good points about the inefficient way the Imperial higher-ups generally run things. Subsequently, a subset of fans latched onto the Screenrant article and had quite a few...things to say about Star Wars supposedly retconning Palpatine to be an incompetent overlord who needed some no-name Imperial to keep things running (and that is all we shall say on the matter), apparently having not actually read the comic in question either.

The first and last sentences can be cut to remove the bashy/complainy tone. Otherwise it is a legit example of the trope since it is in fact a media article getting a plot point of a series blatantly wrong.

The last sentence is also guilty of having one of those grating ROCEJ sinkholes and of being vaguely general.

Is it just me, or does Gameloft have quite a bit of bashing?

I just cut the first few sentences as they only existed to bash the company. Not sure about the rest of the page but it doesn't look great.

Edited by mightymewtron on May 27th 2021 at 1:04:58 PM

Yeah, much of the page seems lowkey complain-y.

I have added Gameloft to the Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining.

But what are we gonna do about the pages there? Adding them there won't in itself change anything.

The idea is to put all the complainy pages in a single place so that more enterprising tropers or those with more time attempt a thorough scrubbing.

Well, it's not like we have the manpower to do everything at once.

Maybe I should add Crash Bandicoot 4: It's About Time since no one was able to provide an idea of what to do, but the complaining there seems to be mostly one user in particular, so that may be excessive.

Edited by ShinyCottonCandy on May 27th 2021 at 1:36:48 PM

Well, the rules say literally anything with noticeable complaining that needs to be removed. If one user added all the complaining, it can still go because someone still needs to clean it all out, and if the sandbox can draw attention to it that increases the chance that it will be cleaned out.

I'm actually thinking about going through some of the smaller pages myself and cleaning out the complaining. How does that sound?

It's difficult for me to say if it's that much, though, or if my own affinity for the franchise leads me to notice criticisms more, and which ones are more common and justified versus which ones are from a minority with an agenda.

In general, I've seen a lot of valid criticism about the gameplay, but these gripes are of the "accuse everything of Political correctness gone mad" variety, which always raises red flags to me.

For reference, my compilation of problems.

And, if you have the time, go for the small pages definitely.

Edited by ShinyCottonCandy on May 27th 2021 at 2:03:59 PM

I did a quick skim of the "Worst Offenders" section on Loudness War and I spotted a lot of complaining unrelated to general reception of the music along with natter.

And ZCE, from a brief glimpse.

Honestly, a trope subpage titled "Worst Offenders" is already asking for trouble. By "worst" I assume it means "largest dynamic quantity" given the note on the page but I don't see why those standards wouldn't apply to the general trope. And why is there an "aversion" section? Is that just any music that isn't super loud, which is chairsy as hell?

Honestly this whole trope looks messy, at least in terms of on-page organization. I don't know enough about music to fix it though.

Edited by mightymewtron on May 27th 2021 at 4:10:37 AM

I know a bit about music, and here's what I know about this.

Basically some record labels do something sometimes with older music called "remastering" (which you may see on iTunes or Spotify, where some tracks say "Remastered [Year]"), which in practice means cranking up the loudness and destroying the quality of the music in the process, as oftentimes music isn't meant to be as loud as they make it. Audiophiles in particular hate this, as they tend to be sticklers for audio quality, which gets sacrificed as mentioned in this process.

I wonder if it could be made into a Useful Notes page. Examples might be worth having but seem bound to attract complaining.

Edited by themayorofsimpleton on May 27th 2021 at 5:19:47 AM

This was just added to YMMV.Crash Bandicoot 4 Its About Time (bolded the part that seems sus):

• Replacement Scrappy: Alternate Tawna has garnered some attention in this regard. While many fans were interested in the concept of a playable Tawna from another dimension, fans of the original did not care for how it handwaved chances of the original take becoming a main character within the main group (especially after the remakes attempted to develop her personality), feeling the retool was a bland attempt at making her "politically correct". Others feel her role as the "powerhouse older sibling" third bandicoot also makes her such for Crunch, citing her unfittingly serious personality and complete lack of chemistry with Crash to make her less entertaining than the latter's more comedic Boisterous Bruiser personality.

I guess it wouldn't be so bad if there wasn't a pothole to Positive Discrimination, which is a redirect now. I think Psi 001 might be editing with an agenda.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure they're also the one who added all of those points I mentioned before. They're also the only one I've seen making those types of complaints anywhere on the internet, and the fact that they've also moaned about "PC culture" elsewhere in the forums... Honestly, I feel like we might need a mod to say something.

Like, I won't deny that the character has detractors, but they're far from a majority, definitely not enough dislike to be any form of "scrappy".

Well, TBF, before now I only saw one item that I could confirm was them. But now it's much more clear, so I might just do that.

Edited by ShinyCottonCandy on May 27th 2021 at 9:12:32 AM

Take them to ATT if they are becoming an issue.