Archived Discussion

This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.

ComputerSherpa: I'm pulling this section on Sokka:

Basically, anything that has to do with Sokka's character from Avatar The Last Airbender. His carnivorousness, sarcasm, whininess, engineering skills, and uselessness in battle have all been openly referred to onscreen, but the most predominant is his sense of humor. Though he started out as a relatively serious and down-to-earth character who occasionally got himself in over his head, Sokka has come to serve as a frequent source of comic relief throughout the series and an increasing victim of violent slapstick. It was later revealed in the Avatar: Nick Mag Presents: First Edition issue by the creators that "Sokka was originally designed to be much more low-key, but when Jack DeSena (his comedian voice actor) came in and brought (improvised) liveliness to his character, [they] began writing towards that strength." Arguably, this is an improvement on the original character.
- Sokka himself is so Genre Savvy he even knows this, and once admitted to himself as he's just "the meat and sarcasm guy".

Sokka hasn't been Flanderized, he's been that way from the beginning. Way back in Episode 2 he says, "I'm just a guy with a boomerang." He's not the most complex character on the show, he knows that, and he likes it that way. Considering the the alternative◊, I'd say he's got the right idea. If anything, his character has deepened as the show progresses and he develops his relationship with Suki, Yue, and his dad.

Lale: But he definitely made less bad jokes in Season 1 (and there were no jokes about him making bad jokes), he wasn't a full-blown Butt-Monkey until Season 2 (it wasn't even a gradual change, it just hit like a ton of bricks in "The Cave of Two Lovers" and never wound down), and his whole identity wasn't being "the meat and sarcasm guy" in Season 1.

That Other 1 Dude: The definition of this trope is "when one trait of a character is exaggerated so much as to become largely their only trait". To be completely honest he wasn't just "meat and sarcasm guy". Hell, afterwards he was less sarcastic and had more character traits. And yes, he has always been the Butt-Monkey; one of his first scenes is getting covered in bison snot, and then there's the entirety of "The Fortuneteller". It's definitely something, but it is not Flanderization.

The Other Professor: Removed:

This editor thinks Takamura has always been somewhat of a Jerkass, ever since the beginning. Only that it became actually more obvious as the series continued.

This is the definition of flanderization. I'm guessing this was moved from Character Derailment and they forgot to remove this.

Scrounge: Moved the Grandpa Max example to Jean Grey Escalation, since it doesn't completely define his character. Dunno why I put it here instead of there in the first place.

Pro-Mole:

In the first Men In Black movie, the worm aliens are first shown hanging out in the break room drinking coffee. In the animated series, they are completely obsessed with coffee, as is, it's later revealed, their entire home planet.

Is this really a case of Flanderization or a pure case of Character Exaggeration? They didn't develop a coffee addiction in the series, they simply are coffee-addicted.

Solandra: Pulled out the following examples:

In one particularly egregious case, WWE wrestler Muhammad Hassan started out as an Arab-American who was sick of being stereotyped as a terrorist; as time went on, he gradually became a stock Evil Foreigner who just happened to be from Detroit, in the process becoming everything he was originally trying to convince people he was not.
Futurama's Kif Kroker, second-in-command to Zapp Brannigan, went from being sarcastic and bolshy in his earliest appearances to a shy pushover in later seasons.

because they seem more like Character Derailment than Flanderization; their initial characterization seem to be completely opposite of their final characterization, instead of having a normal trait that's exaggerated over time.

Later: Added these examples to the Character Derailment entry.

Also pulled out:

In the first Men In Black movie, the worm aliens are first shown hanging out in the break room drinking coffee. In the animated series, they are completely obsessed with coffee, as is, it's later revealed, their entire home planet.

because as far as I remember, the worm aliens got only cursory scenes (I doubt that they even had more than three lines of dialogue), so they really didn't have much characterization to begin with. More like a Plot Tumor since they jumped from being a token alien appearance in the first movie to annoying sidekicks in the second and the animated adaptation.

Semiapies: I wonder whether Anya from Buffy counts. She started out as perfectly able to interact socially (hanging out with Cordelia in her first apperance), then behaved comically clinical when she first propositioned Xander, which then shifted into comical literalism and a near-complete lack of understanding of human interactions.

Lale: Character Derailment.

Spongebob Squarepants is probably one of the worst offenders of this.

Ronfar: Isn't Ethan from Ctrl+Alt+Del a textbook Cloudcookoolander, not The Ditz?

House: Wilson didn't miss her having testicles near her ovaries. Her ovaries WERE testicles. I do not agree, she had both, hadn't she?

Thatother1dude: Removed:

Another secondary character who got Flanderized is Sideshow Mel. In the earlier episodes, he had something of a British accent. Nowadays, he speaks Ye Olde Butcherede Englishe.

Mel never had a british accent, he just spoke in an overly dramatic voice, and always has.

That Other 1 Dude: After go over the definition of this "when a single trait is exaggerated until it consumes the character" I'm wondering how in the hell is Sokka a case? It list his carnivorousness, sarcasm, whininess, engineering skills, uselessness in battle, and sense of humor. That six things! Really I think this article needs a major overhaul for several issues:

How is Homestar changing from The Fool to The Ditz even at all related
Why does Radar no longer having "telepathy" count (the other part would though)
Lester from Beakmans World seems more like a case of Character Derailment
Lisa has always been a Soapbox Sadie
I don't have any clue what it's saying about Bart
Tedd seems more like Character Derailment

Honestly it seems like every other use of the term is incorrect, and would fit better in the nigh-abandoned page Character Exaggeration, as Flanderization is suppose to be about one trait consuming the character instead of becoming greater than before. It doesn't help that the character it wasn't that bad of an example. This article also seems to forget that Tropes Are Not Bad, and and changes to a character whatsoever are also always bad. I just list the ones that are probably more like Character Exaggeration:

Homer, Marge, and maybe Moe (Marge really never had many other traits to begin with)
Ralph can't be counted as Flanderized as he was pretty much a flat character to begin with
Peter
Wilson may or may not (I haven't seen the show)
"Just about everyone" in Spongebob Squarepants (did they ever really have that many character traits?)

Charred Knight: Character Exaggeration deals with Flanderization when it comes to Adaptations such as Doctor Watson being basically an idiot in every Holmes adaptation.

That Other 1 Dude: That's kind of confusing. Anyway, it still seems that nearly half of the uses of this aren't accurate (I guess instead of Character Exaggeration, it would be exaggeration of character traits). The important thing is that it refers to when just single trait is exaggerated so much it become the only thing about them, which is why I don't think Homer counts because it was several traits that made him into a Jerkass, Marge was always nagging and is still a caring mother, and Ralph started out as a background character, and thus didn't have any thing about him before becoming The Ditz. Bart is more or less the same character, and Lisa just went from being a Soapbox Sadie to one that was at times not right, or acknowledged as condecending. Seriously, the perceived changes are mostly general exaggeration of features due to changes in style over time.

Moe, Smithers, and Ned still count (though the actual Flanders is ironically the least so, and not nearly as bad as plenty of other characters). Regardlessly, Sokka definitely doesn't count. I think we need a separate article or something.

Trogga: Why was the Stewie Griffin part removed?

Mr Onimusha: I don't know, but I know that Wilson has not been Flanderized by any stretch of the imagination. Him making the error in Skin Deep, while an incredibly stupid thing for an oncologist - any oncologist, ever - to do, hasn't been mentioned in any other episode, was not a character flaw to begin with and has had no effect on Wilson as a character. Hence, I've cut that section and I don't know why I didn't do it already. If someone wants to defend it, go ahead.

Jibar: Is it really fair to say Luigi has been flanderized? He never had any personality in the first place, he was just a lighter clone. Come on, you've got to give him some defining characteristics.

That Other 1 Dude: Really, that's more of a character expansion since he had nothing unique before.

That Other 1 Dude: O'Malley being a Card-Carrying Villain wasn't Flanderization. His personality varies depending on who he's inhabiting, and he's just like that when his in Doc.

That Other 1 Dude: I removed the thing about the Welcome To The NHK manga because that falls under Character Exaggeration (as the manga is an adaptation of a novel).

Ninjacrat: @Ikacprzak: What the hell?

Vampire Buddha: Removed this

* Subverted, perhaps not deliberately, in The Venture Brothers, where pretty much the whole cast started out as huge, cartoonish, one-note jerkasses who were obvious parodies of other cartoon characters, and developed into complex, nuanced, sympathetic characters of their own.

I've never seen The Venture Brothers, but it seems to me like this isn't a subversion of Flanderization, but rather good old Character Development.

That Other 1 Dude: I still don't think this should be on the page, but I could see what they were talking about because it's the kind of show where you would certainly expect this to happen.

EDIT: Thank you Rann, for telling it straight.

That Other 1 Dude: The things about the Devil May Cry anime and Pucca show fall under Character Exaggeration, since it happened through adaptation.

Andrew: That Nazi example. Um...wow?

Tanto: Um. Yeah. People never talk enough about the good things the Nazis did. Right.

Pulling it, based on the Rule Of Cautious Editing Judgment:

The Nazi party. Extending far beyond their use in fiction, The Theme Park Version of them has become practically the historic standard for anyone under the age of 16 or so. In reality, the Nazi party was brought in by popular vote (Hitler was especially charismatic) and beyond the racist undertones (which hardly even started out as a particular agenda for ethnic cleansing), worked to benefit the country as much as it could. Kids are instead taught The Theme Park Version, which basically turns them into a bunch of snarling monsters that somehow got into power with a 0% Approval Rating and did everything to oppress not just the select minorities, but pretty much everybody not in power. World War II has become less of a natural event caused by the building political pressures imposed on Germany from World War I and more just a clear cut "evil empire threatens the free world". The reason this version has become popular is because there are a lot of subtle shades of "evil" in all of this that teachers are just too lazy to teach. It's much easier to say "Nazis were evil incarnate" instead of saying "the people accepted the anti-Judaism stance of the Nazis because of a combination of propaganda and because when acting under a higher power, any normal person can do horrible things".

The Uncredible Hallq: Any particular reason the Futurama example (Fry) was deleted?

That Other 1 Dude: Honestly speaking, Fry has always been a complete idiot. His first response to finding out it's almost the year 3000?:

Fry: Wow, a million years.

Firelegend567- "Tedd in El Goonish Shive before: a shy, insecure boy with a talent for mechanics bordering on Mad Scientist levels. Tedd after: perverted poster boy for Author Appeal whose only remaining scientific apparatus, the Transformation Ray, was handed to him by aliens."

Contested, Tedd was always an Author Appeal pervert. In fact, if anything that tendency was much more prevalent during the early days of the strip. Tedd has actually through a bit of character development when it comes to his insecurities and he still modified the gun.

That Other 1 Dude: Bob, neither of those things about Metroid have anything to do with Flanderization. Ridley and Kraid were obviously suppose to be huge and were just bigger due to differences in graphical capability. Also, it's never clarified were Ridley or Kraid ranks among the Pirates. Not focusing on Samus' backstory (which they never did in the first place) has nothing to do with this either.

That Other 1 Dude: Rebochan, wouldn't this happening to Holmes with other authors count as Character Exaggeration and/or Jean Grey Escalation.

EDIT: As is that thing about The Last Days Of Foxhound.

Rebochan: I noticed no one ever moved it, but you're right - I'll moved the Sherlock Holmes stuff to Character Exaggeration and take it from here.

That Other 1 Dude: Disputed

Misa Amane from Death Note. Upon first introduction, she was an Ax-Crazy sociopath whose level of general insanity rivaled that of her "Boyfriend", Light Yagami. Sure, she had some ditzy moments, especially when it came to a certain would-be god, but she was also shown to be deceptivly inteligent, even getting the best of super genius Light when they first meet. But the writters quickly picked up on her affection for Light, and elevated it to the dominant, and then only, aspect of her personality, turning her into an ditzy and inefectual Kira-fangirl, effectivly rendering her Light's pet cheerleader. This is most evident when, in the second arc, Light cheats on her with Kiyomi Takada, and her response is merely to try (unsuccesfully) to kick Takada in the shins. The original, pre-flanderization Misa would have likely responded by kidnaping and torturing the offending women, and then presenting her severed head to Light as a token of her affection.

Wasn't that was because she had any memories related to the Death Note? Also, that definitely wasn't Obfuscating Stupidity.

Chickification and Faux Action Girl were about Action Girls who are either changed into more passive ladies without any convincing explanation, or don't live up to the Action Girl fame they have in canon. Now, it seems that any Action Girl has lost right to either show a more vulnerable side, have a bad day or more, lose a single fight (even if she does fight to the fullest) and/or handle difficulties in any other way than using a Megaton Punch, lest they'll be accused of being Chickificated and/or having been Faux Action Girls all along. (Apparently, a woman is only strong if she acts like a stereotypical man and she is forbidden of having girly tastes or needing a male's help.)

Nezumi: Thank you! I was starting to think I was the only one who noticed some of the examples of that were absurd. My favorite were accusations of these happening to Lara Croft because Tomb Raider: Legend and Anniversary portrayed her as being traumatized by watching her mother vanish off the face of the Earth while still a child, or being deeply shaken by killing a human being for the first time in her life. Yes, because not being a sociopath means you're subject to Chicikification or Faux Action Girl.

Pro-Mole: How is this a "Subjective Trope"? The definition is quite clear, and just because people want to Round Hole Square Trope it to death, it doesn't mean it is subjective.

Austin: Because whether something is being exaggerated or whether it was exaggerated from the start is based on perspective. Not everyone notices a change.

Austin: "Five-Man Band. That is all."

No it's not. Details are our friends.

Trouser Wearing Barbarian: Re-added, with an explanation.

Lime: Ummm... Could someone fix the title?

Rebochan: Why is it that every time I hear the word "emo" I start to twitch? Oh right. Because nobody has any idea what "emo" is and they just chuck around to describe any character they don't like that is not a happy fun ball of good cheer regardless of his circumstances. Holy crap is that Final Fantasy VII entry a pile of whining. You know what? I'm pulling it - it has no relation to anything that happened in the games, it's just a few people whining that Cloud isn't a Super Awesome Unemotional Badass (he never was!) or that Sephiroth isn't Kefka II (he never was that either).

Masami Phoenix: Removed the following from the Smallville example. Chloe's transition from "girl who was good with computers" to "elite hacker" was standard flanderization. Chloe's possession by Brainiac was the explanation on how she instantly went from "elite hacker" to inhumanly good, a situation that was immediately noticed by the characters (although they didn't figure out it was Brainiac actually possessing her for some time) The text also was a bit too vitrolic. I personally thought it was a very interesting plot arc. Not a "badly done lampshade"

That the series would later give the excuse that her ever expanding abilities were actually a nascent superpower only this much worse with a badly-done lampshade.

BritBllt: If I could venture a suggestion, a lot of these "trope flanderization" complaints really come from the fact that the tropes themselves aren't defined very well sometimes. There are a few entries that are so filled with self-referential humor and commentary that I can't figure out what they're actually talking about. Rather than complaining about how people "flanderize" the tropes, maybe the solution is just to clean up some of the trope articles. I'd be the first to try, but seriously, I really don't know what some of the worst offenders are trying to say. Other fairly new tropers probably have the same problem, and when they try to make an honest contribution anyway, we get another entry in this article's "trope flanderizing" list.

Cliché: We mostly have the complaints here as it is the best way to signal problems with the wiki (since so few people use the Talk Pages). Also, from my psychological observation of troper behaviour, instinct seems to only care about the trope title regardless of description, hence the reason a lot of the tropes end up here. The worst offender by far is X Just X potholes (thank gravity those ended up mass zapped). It's kind of related to what you're talking about, because having a counterintuitive trope name for a certain description (especially based on community in-jokes) makes the tropes harder to understand. I also feel it's somewhat difficult to effect change on this site, since then we have the community traditionalists arguing against change, leading to troper inertia. Oh well, it doesn't hurt to try.
Anyways, welcome to TV Tropes. I appreciate your well thought out feedback and will attempt to act on it.

Fast Eddie: This section seems to have accuracy problems and comes off as the wiki working on operational issues in the article. Let's use the forum and/or discussion pages for that sort of thing, okay?

TV Tropes Wiki

Even the term "Flanderization" itself seems to be undergoing the process, as tropers on this very wiki start to use it in broader and broader terms, until it now seems to apply to stuff that was intended as a parody/stereotype or exaggeration from the start.
- Not to mention that the trope no longer appears to apply exclusively to characters.
Jerk with a Heart of Gold now seems to mean 'Any protagonist who isn't a Purity Sue'.
Narm has gone through a similar process. It initially meant "means to be serious, ends up funny", but now it can mean "any scene that fails to invoke whatever the intended feeling was, even if it doesn't make it funny". Let's not even get started on all the examples that were obviously supposed to be funny.
The standards for "So Bad Its Horrible" have dropped considerably.
- Indeed, it's been applied to stuff that is actually considered really enjoyable by a lot of people. This troper thinks they even saw someone call Ghostbusters 2 So Bad Its Horrible. Seriously, Ghostbusters 2? Apparently now it just means "I didn't love it, so it sucks."
  - Apparently now all a series/movie requires to qualify for So Bad Its Horrible is finding a single vitriolic review of it. On someone's webpage.
- Wall Banger has undergone similar flanderization. If one person doesn't like a plot point, even a little bit, it automatically becomes a Wall Banger. The list of ones for Star Trek in all its incarnations, for example, includes more than a few plot points that were perfectly reasonable in the context of the series; to this troper they read like someone not all that familiar with the franchise saw the fifteen minutes of the program in which the mentioned event took place. Also, since a lot of these were aimed at Enterprise, it certainly seemed to this troper that it was less actual Wall Bangers and more a combination of Trek's Unpleaseable Fanbase and Complaining About Shows You Dont Like. Same goes for many of the Dr. Who entries under that trope.
  - Considering how highly subjective Wall Banger is, expressing shock that other people may find certain plot points to be an example of this seems to defy the intent of the trope.
Hey guess what's Flanderized now? Saying some random page is Flanderized. Can you tell I'm being sarcastic?
- Know what else is Flanderized? Adding pointless Take That! natter whining about the Flanderized trope list. Can you tell I'm being caustic?
- Technically wouldn't the above be a pointless Take That! natter aimed at...pointless Take That! natter? Kind of defeats the purpose yeah?
- Also, "edit reason (optional)" line, of all things, sometimes serves as a sort of Take That! chat whenever people are too lazy to cut/paste something into Discussion page and comment it there. As opposed to being, well, place for writing edit reason. Optionally.
"Stop Having Fun" Guys was almost instantly Flanderized from being specifically about "arrogant or condescending tournament / 'hardcore' gamers" to people who prefer tournament rules to people who go to tournaments regardless of how they behave.
Wangst too. If the characters are not well-adjusted happy people that have nothing wrong with their lives, they are Wangsty little girls.
- Not just on this site, but was there ever a real definition of "emo"? Does it mean whiny? sad? angry? impassive? Those aren't the same things!
  - When created, the people that actually identified as emo apparently defined it as "being extremely in touch with one's emotions", thus emotional=emo. Since most of them were teenagers, most of those emotions weren't positive (IE, they came across as being sulky, whiny and depressed). Now it's a general-purpose insult, to the point that the very idea that it could be used in its original connotation, or even just used a bit tongue-in-cheek, is dismissed out-of-hand.
  - Emo was originally a subgenre of punk rock, which most people who use the term "emo" have never ever heard of, let alone listen to.
The Nightmare Fuel examples. Sure, most of it's acceptable, but there are things on there that toddlers can handle effortlessly.
- To say nothing of the fact that the Nightmare Fuel catagory was originally intended for things that were unintentionally horrifying, which most tropers seem to ignore when listing examples. Now, examples are added based on whether they could, in any conceivable way, be considered the least bit scary.
  - The original description for the Trope also stated that the examples were intended to be normal or only slightly scary to Childrens, but ended up frightening to an adult. Of course, this didn't stop stuff like Doom from being included.
  - Plus stuff like Billy and Mandy and a Tear Jerker from Alvin and The Chipmunks are in there. Atleast the new mascot shows the unitentionally scary thing.
- Most? Most of it is acceptable? more like a small amount. a real small amount.
Fat Monica originally meant any poorly written quirk. It seems to have metamorphosed into meaning exclusively 'overweight'.
Mis-blamed was originally just suppose to be about translation, but has been extended to many other things. This is probably a good thing though, as it's still cases of "Misplaced Blamed", and it's probably not worth splitting the article over.
Rape The Dog. Initially referred to villains committing an evil deed so Squicky and excessive that it serves as Character Derailment and alienates the audience from the character permanently; many of the examples now cited are neither violent and disturbing nor out of character for the villain in question.
- This is why the page was archived, and separated into "Moral Event Horizon" (one event) and "Complete Monster" (character who does this thing constantly), which better clarifies what it's about (though it's not necessarily Character Derailment).
  - And then, one day after the split, I saw an edit made to MEH to include a character who was a Complete Monster from the start and thus had no MEH to cross. Said character was already on the Complete Monster page. Flanderization moves fast.
I Am Not Making This Up is starting to get old, guys. yes, ridiculous things happen in various medias. (Also in real life.) We believe you. We have no reason to think that random sabotage gremlins are running around the wiki making up absurd plot points just to trick us.
- Seriously, that troper's not making this up.
Draco in Leather Pants has been Flanderized from ignoring all of a character's negative traits and focusing on/fabricating positive traits, mostly for the purposes of Perverse Sexual Lust, to the point that if there are people who like a villain (or Anti-Villain or Designated Villain or whatever) for any reason whatsoever, even if it's BECAUSE they're huge bastards, they are a Draco in Leather Pants.
- The examples are also becoming less about how some fans have lionized a character, and more about pointing out every single one of the character's flaws, real or perceived. Essentially, with these two things taken together, it's turning into just Complaining About Characters You Don't Like.
- Not to mention that it's no longer just about villains. The page contains a number of protagonists that have their deeds and actions related in the worst possible light, taken ridiculously out of context, or twisted beyond recognition until the antagonist of the series seems like a saint for opposing them. Which, basically, makes the page an example of itself.
They Changed It, Now It Sucks! used to be a place to note fans being an Unpleasable Fanbase or Fan Dumb over changes to something they were fans of, IE things like "TRUKK NOT MUNKEY". Now it's a place to be an Unpleasable Fanbase or Fan Dumb in earnest and complain about changes.
What the Hell, Hero? was meant to "showcase" incidents of others calling out (Anti)Heroes on Moral Dissonance. However, it soon dissolved into being a generic catch-all for "good guys" who took things too far, while neglecting the important bit about calling them out. There are, fortunately, ongoing efforts to rectify this problem.
Mighty Whitey was originally about how some white guy learns to hunt from a tribe of natives or whatnot and becomes better than they are, a la old safari movies. Now, if the Token White proves to even be competent at anything at all, he's Mighty Whitey.
This! Is! SPARTA! went through an immense case of Flanderization at one point. People added any case of someone screaming something (even single words), up to the point that somebody had to go through the examples and remove the excessive ones.
Your Mileage May Vary was intended for things that have an equal split between how many people like it and how many hate it. Then people added examples of things that are generally universally reviled or loved, based on the fact that there are a few people who take the minority view. Currently, this trope has been "fixed" by eliminating examples completely.
- Or possiby, it was suppose to be things where people either loved or hated them immensely, regardless of numbers (it was never really very clear). Not that it hasn't gone to where something can be included on the list if anyone one person hates something that's otherwise generally liked (and it's usually that one person that added it to the list going into disproportionate detail of why they hate it).
Chickification and Faux Action Girl were about Action Girls who are either changed into more passive ladies without any convincing explanation, or don't live up to the Action Girl fame they have in canon. Now, it seems that any Action Girl has lost right to either show a more vulnerable side, have a bad day or more, lose a single fight (even if she does fight to the fullest) and/or handle difficulties in any other way than using a Megaton Punch, lest they'll be accused of being Chickificated and/or having been Faux Action Girls all along. (Apparently, a woman is only strong if she acts like a stereotypical man and she is forbidden of having girly tastes or needing a male's help.)
- Not to mention, the mere Chickification trope name can be seen as misogynistic and flanderized, implying that being The Chick in the Five-Man Band is automatically demeaning no matter how said Chick is portrayed. Not exactly the best way to promote empowerment of any kind of women, huh? Hell, we eventually even renamed "The Chick" "The Heart".
  - Or attempted to, at least. Somehow they ended up as separate tropes.
- More specifically, there used to be an example on the Chickification page claiming Gatomon of Digimon to be an example of this, using her degradation from Champion Level to Rookie Level as a justification. Yeah, because being less overpowered compared to the rest of the cast automatically makes you weak.
  - Let's not forget how getting Character Development somehow equals to Chickification, in the case of Digimon Tamers. Isn't it sad, Ruki Makino?
- Girls Need Role Models is getting like this too. While the page description still states that it's actually a kind of Positive Discrimination where the girl is more perfect than the guys so that she can be a role model, most of the examples on the page have become snarling diatribes about how female characters identified as role models aren't Bad Ass God-Mode Sue types who do all the work and get all the glory while the guys stand around and stare in wonder.
- Similarly, a successful example of Straight Gay is apparently only possible if the character is 99.5% like a stereotypical straight man, with the remaining half a percent encompassing the entirety of his sexual attraction towards men. Basically a gay man can't like fashion, or not like sports, or have a moment of being a little camp without being immediately thrown in the Camp Gay prison and locked up there forever.
The Large Hams are getting less and LESS hammy, to the point where simply raising one's voice now and again can earn the designation.
Acceptable Political Targets, like the other Acceptable Targets pages, used to be for targets that you were completely safe to mock without really stirring up public outcry, whether fairly or not. Now it's actually added into the page description that it's perfectly okay for them to be acceptable targets because the people listed on the page are/were evil or incompetent. This addition happened about the time that George Bush was added to the page, funny that.
Alternate Character Interpretation is steadily turning from a page noting actual different interpretations of a character by fans or different writers into a page for general Wild Mass Guessing.
This troper conceived, proposed and wrote the Dynamic Entry trope as covering a very specific type of entrance: a horizontal or diagonal diving kick. Fewer and fewer of the entries being added fall under that category. He is not pleased.
- Probably should have called it "Flying Kick Entry", then.
- Yeah, seriously. "Dynamic" is way too broad of a term if you wanted it to be that specific, it would only have about three examples, and it doesn't really seem worth having separate articles.
Break the Cutie is starting to become The Woobie.
- Arguably. The two overlap a lot.
The Wesley often ends up becoming "unpopular character who isn't Put on a Bus as soon as they appear or happens to be a main character".
Mary Sue. Its gotten to the point where any character who has even a slight degree of competence and plot relavence (like, say, the main characters) getting labeled a Sue.
Americanitis is suppose to be about removing aspects of foreign culture in translation, but half the examples are film and TV Shows that were completely remade in another country and acting if that it inherently some sort of sin against nature.
Discontinuity seems to have moved away from "works that the majority of the fandom doesn't acknowledge for reasons of bad plotting, character derailment, or conflict with canon" and toward "whatever any one person feels like adding, even for entirely trivial reasons".
- There's also the fact that the reason frequently have nothing to do with continuity. You'll thus see people claiming discontinuity on things for reason of quality even if it didn't have any negative effect on canon (including things like acting/animation quality which isn't part of canon) as well as things for show that follow Status Quo Is God and Negative Continuity and thus no episode has any effect on anything.
  - The trope was Flanderized so much that it basically turned into "Complaining about plots points and events you don't like". For example, one of the example was complaining about peoples Sequence Breaking in Metroid (something that has absolutely no effect on the storyline) and another example discontinuited something that wasn't even out at the time of the writing because of a single plot point.
- Recently, someone went to great lengths to weed out the examples that were personal, explanationless, or just "that did happen, that's stupid!" and rewrote the main page to remind people that it's only suppose to be if a large amount of the fandom thinks so otherwise they should go elsewhere.. after which people immediately started back up at it.
Crowning Moments of Awesome just ain't as awesome as they used to be. Used to feature a character doing something to amazing you just have to stand up and cheer. These days a character only has to do something fairly competently to get on this page.
- "You know what? The entire movie/book/etc is a crowning moment of awesome."
  - This is even worse with Crowning Music Of Awesome, in which people list entire OS Ts
- Not to mention the original definition was the single most awesome thing a character ever did (emphasis on single, possibly with a second one where they arguably topped themselves). But people wasted no time in listing every single awesome thing every character ever did. It got bad enough that the moments of awesome from a series have now been segregated off into their own little sub-page a la Just Bugs Me, so that every single slightly cool thing the characters do doesn't take over the entire trope page.
The standards for distrust in Never Trust a Trailer have gotten ridiculously low. If a trailer doesn't adhere to strict chronological order of events, doesn't be completely and utterly straightforward, or uses even a moment of footage that wasn't in the final theatrical release... well, yeah. Essentially all a movie trailer has to do to be included on there is be a movie trailer.
Twofer Token Minority and Token Minority have seemingly begun to list every possible example, regardless of intent. I seriously doubt it's Tokenism to feature a black woman in the cast when the majority of the cast is non-white and female.
Moral Dissonance often looks like more of a place to Complain About Heroes They Don't Like rather than a list of examples where a hero's actions don't line up with their rhetoric and it's portrayed as being just fine.
Start of Darkness is about a prequel which tells the backstory of the villain. Doesn't stop people from adding stuff like The Dark Knight there because somebody became evil within the length of that movie.
The Scrappy is also becoming a place for people to {{Complain About Characters They Don't Like}}.
- This is highlighted in how with an ongoing series, a character apparently wanders in and out of Scrappytude depending on how close they seem to be coming to infringing on the series' most popular ship.
Possibly the root of the wiki's problems: There Is No Such Thingas Notability has gone from Any media example is acceptable, no matter how obscure to absolutely anything, page, example, whatever is fair game
- For example, the God Is Evil page used to have an example that was just an idea a troper had, not anything that had ever been written down. The Gratuitous Japanese page also used to have an example taken from a single post on a Game FA Qs message board. Small Name, Big Ego also had an example about an user of a rather obscure Internet Forum, not a moderator or someone in position of power, just a random user.
- Also, leaving aside the issue of whether it should be included in the first place, Fan Fiction is often lumped together with the source material.
Five-Man Band was originally made to describe a very specific sort of cast that shows up in certain action shows, mostly Sentai ones. Nowadays, every ensemble in existence has to be a Five-Man Band, even if half the characters don't fit the roles they're given, under the old definitions or the newer, more ~~meaningless~~ vague ones.
Fox News Liberal is now turning into Complaining About Conservatives('s Shows) You Don't Like.
Spell My Name with a "The" went from "People who insist you put a The in their name" to "Anyone who is called by a name with a The" pretty quickly.
Better Than It Sounds was made for series that have an inherently ridiculous premise. Soon, people started adding examples of reasonable premises and phrasing them in ridiculous (and not always accurate) ways. The trope is now listed as Just For Fun, and it probably works better that way.
Sonic Syndrome was being used as "Jumping the Shark, Sonic The Hedgehog style", which lead to a rename.
Remember when most of the entries in Unfortunate Implications were actually offensive?
- Along similar lines, the Double Standard page. It's come to the point where you kind of wonder whether people are simply just making up stuff to be offended about.
Any villain or anti-hero who is both popular and not a complete retard is apparently a Magnificent Bastard
- The page has been purged repeatedly and now comes with a big-ass disclaimer about how subjective this is.
Is it me or is Nintendo Hard getting a little easier. I mean Roguelikes and all Atlus games. We could give Atlus its own trope. Don't get me started on what does and doesn't get in! I mean why "1994's Lion King" and "Friday the 13th" aren't listed but someone wanted to place Gauntlet and solital there. Plus you include Platform Hell examples but that's a diffrent trope.
- You Have To Burn The Rope shouldn't be in Platform Hell either.
Survival Horror has gone from "an overwhelmed protagonist uses careful resource management against insurmountable odds with a supernatural/horror theme" to "it's got monsters in it." Seriously, Splatterhouse, people?
The Jimmy Hart Version went from being about shows using soundalikes of popular songs because they couldn't get the original to any piece of music that sounds like another piece of music (sometimes only very vaguely).
That One Boss is about a videogame boss being much more difficult than all of the other bosses in a game, as the name of the trope indicates. However, there's about a dozen of examples saying "Every Boss in X game is That One Boss.". That One Boss is not supposed to be about a boss that is simply difficult.
The Woobie should be about characters that have bad things happen to them so that the audience will go "aww", but seems to have been broadened by some people into "character that bad things happen to" (which tends to be true for characters in, oh, all stories except the ones for toddlers). I mean, Luke Skywalker? Terra out of Final Fantasy VI? How are they The Woobie?
In the sense of "exaggerating one particular trait", the Informed Ability page can be said to suffer from flanderization. The first definition of the trope is a badly written ability. The second is an ability that's never shown, but the viewers have no reason to doubt a character has, the example given being a Fyarel demon's mucus power from Buffy The Vampire Slayer. Yet almost all, if not all, of the examples are from the first definition. Granted, they're more interesting, but still.
Crapsack World was defined as a world on the extreme cynical side of Sliding Scale of Idealism Versus Cynicism, with Black-and-Gray Morality that is almost "Black and Black", and inhabited by universally or almost-universally awful people. Now the page is littered with examples of worlds that simply feature really powerful villains or really tragic situations, no matter how extremely idealistic they are otherwise. I mean, what was smoking the troper that included One Piece there?
Adaptation Distillation has become regarded as the 'good' twin of Adaptation Decay despite Distillation being merely removal of elements while Decay is simply changing elements. The fact that the word "distillation" brings to mind pure water while "decay" brings to mind biodegradation doesn't help.
Ensemble Dark Horse originally referred to a character who does little in a story yet still becomes popular among fans. Now it seems that anyone who is popular despite not being the main character qualifies, even the secondary main character or the main villain.
Expy was supposed to feature characters that copy some other characters to the point of being almost one and the same. Now it includes not only examples of characters that, say, borrowed some visual elements from some other characters, with whom they have absolutely nothing in common personality-wise; but also examples of character pairs that share no unique traits at all.
Laconic Wiki is supposed to be about taking overly long articles and defining them in a few words but now it does it to every article INCLUDING articles that are only a few sentences long.
- Shut up. It's fun!
Apparently Weird Japanese Things don't have to be Japanese anymore.
Also, a Quirky Mini Boss Squad apparently doesn't have to be quirky anymore, it just has to be a squad.
Downer Ending isn't immune either.
Ugly Guy, Hot Wife has a helluva lot of examples where the guy is merely average looking. While sometimes this is due to a Hollywood Homely guy being played up as this ugly nerd (like JD on Scrubs) within the show, there are way too many average looking guys on the list.
Every entry on the Sugar Wiki seems to have degenerated to "just post stuff we like on these pages".
The terms Macekre and Woolseyism appear to have lost meaning. The former is supposed to refer to when loads of stuff is cut so that the plot of the show ends up being altered, instead it has become a place for editors to Complain About Dubs They Dont Like, which admittedly do make edits (such as name changes, music changes and the removal of the occasional bloody nose) but do not destroy the show's plot. The latter meanwhile has become the opposite of the former's Flanderized definition, where it is supposed to be when jokes are added to replace ones that won't work in translation.
Deadpan Snarker is beginning to degenerate into "this character has at some point said something sarcastic".
Big Bad was originally meant to refer to a core, over-arching enemy, such as the classic Buffy examples. Since then, it has gradually become catch-all shorthand for "villain".
A Xanatos Gambit is supposed to be a situation where the villain benefits from a given event regardless of whether the heroes succeeded or failed, but nowadays it seems every plan that isn't instantly obvious to the heroes gets this title.

T Beholder: ...and then add a single link to this all. Yeah. The only question is: exactly what place this belongs to?

AceofPlaces: I'm gonna have to object to the following, after actually watching the episode in question.

Lina Inverse of The Slayers has suffered this severely, especially with regards to her greed. She started out as a bad-tempered Black Magician Girl who enjoyed going out and mercilessly destroying bandit camps for their treasure, but by the latest season (Slayers Revolution) has become something of an inhuman monster, going so far as to rescue a fishwoman, then immediately seek out a chef to sell her to him despite pleas not to! In the past, while Lina was definitely shown to be a mercenary, almost invariably refusing to help somebody unless they paid her for it, she never came across as so evil that she would sell a person whom she had just rescued. This, in this troper's opinion, has sent Lina beyond the Moral Event Horizon, ruining the character for him.

First of all, Lina wasn't in the business of rescuing the hostage in question in the first place. She was out roughing up pirates because she had run out of bandits. Rescuing the fishwoman was more of an incidental side-effect. Also, said fishwoman had recently given a long, detailed speech about how Lina was a heartless, godless, cruel, ill-tempered, fire-breathing, small-breasted witch who would sooner set your head on fire than look at you. The way she probably saw it, she was now in possession of a giant fish who has just really pissed her off.

So she goes into a restaurant (probably not specifically seeking out a place to sell the fishwoman, since the general rule is when Lina and Gourry aren't fighting, arguing or complaining, they're eating,) And it occurs to her that hey, fish are edible. This one's huge, and will probably fetch a good price if she sells it to the chef at this restaurant.

So basically, she was going about her business, got insulted without much provocation, got offended and decided to sell the perp when the opportunity arose, instead of actually seeking it out.

It does seem a little harsh to sell a sentient being, but it really doesn't seem quite as flanderized as all that. Also, Rule of Funny.

Steve the Pocket: What happened to our "Real Life" section? It seems to have been completely exorcised without comment.

Great Pikmin Fan: some of the Total Drama Island example was sliced off, why?

JP 4490: Cutting this:

Originally, Mario and Luigi from Super Mario Bros were simply of Italian descent (originally from Brooklyn, as portrayed on the animated series and The Movie). Then when the Nintendo 64 came out, they became fully Italian, complete with stereotypical Italian-a accent-a.

The only real sign of them being Italian in the games is the voice - it's not like they suddenly gain other stereotypical aspects of Italians to go with it (Even then, the Mario games don't make much use of speech or character background). Also, the official games are being compared here to the cartoons and movie story, which aren't necessarily the definitive versions of the characters.

Removed:

Power Girl of The DCU has grown (literally) from a standard example of the Most Common Super Power to the poster girl for the trope.

Power Girl has always been very buxom; Wally Wood made a point of it. (though the whole "make them bigger every issue till the editors notice" thing is an urban legend) It's just that the standards have changed. When she first debuted she was around a D cup, which actually was quite busty for a Golden/Silver Age character: the focus back then tended to be more on the legs, hips and waist, and the bust would usually be around a C. But as cultural focus shifted more to the chest, comic book women got bustier, and since Power Girl is supposed to be very busty even for a comic book character, she had to be redesigned accordingly.

Would it be save to say that Flanderization and Character Development are polar opposites?

Komodin: Pretty much.

Someone explain to me how Sanji of One Piece supposedly used to be mr. awesome and a chick magnet. He has always been embarrassing around boobs, right from the very start where he gives Nami stuff on the house just because she's pretty and batted her lashes at him. Those 20 girls (and a dude. Go on, check for yourself) he was wooing at the same time? Were on Whiskey Peak, where the whole population was just trying to make the pirates feel welcome so they could turn them in for the rewards on their head. Of course the women there were going to play along.

Michael JJ: Alright, here's the deal. I'm trimming the entries for Trixie and Tootie on The Fairly Oddparents since those look like they may result in Internet Backdraft. If you still have a problem with it, delete it without an attack on my person. I wouldn't have cared the first time it was deleted if the editor in question hadn't given me a personal accusation. Edit without the attitude.

Archived Discussion Main / Flanderization