During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Ilsa.
to Inspector Ulrik Strange and Ilsa Bachmann.
After reflection I've decided not to go ahead with my last Dalziel and Pascoe candidate, so here are my write ups:
- Dalziel and Pascoe:
- The Wood Beyond: Captain Herbert Batty is a callous, smug Medical Corp officer focused only on his desire to create a new drug for the prestige it will bring him. Using the First World War as a cover, Batty experimented on the wounded soldiers under his care, attempting to find the exact dosages needed to make anti-bacteria solutions out of lethal arsenic compounds, causing at least 23 deaths. Following Robert Pascoe stumbling onto his activities, Batty used his connections to have himself posted back in Yorkshire where he took over Wormwood House, his former family estate turned military hospital. Carrying on his experiments, Batty caused untold numbers of men to die in agony, passing off their deaths as result of infection and burying the surplus bodies in the woods. Murdering Robert Pascoe, just to twist knife further Batty then framed him for desertion so to disgrace his family.
- Under Dark Stars: Michael Wheeler is a vicious, arrogant predator of vulnerable teenagers. Kidnapping thirteen year old Perdy, he horrific abused her until she brainwashed into believing his twisted ideology. Then over four years, he used Perdy to help him abduct four boys whom he dismissed as "worthless scum". Imprisoning the children, Wheeler would put them through the same brutal abuses and punishments in an attempt to also collect them. However, as they all kept resisting him, he simply ended up killing them, his latest victim being fourteen year old Jaimie Croft. Following his trial collapsing Wheeler took to harassing Jaimie's parents with the secrets he'd tortured out of Jaimie and blaming them for their son death, the strain of which drove Bridget Croft to kill herself. Focusing his attention Dean Bennet, the one victim to escape him, Wheeler kidnapped Dean determined to make him his latest victim.
- The Valhalla Murders: Pétur Alfreðsson, the State Prosecutor, despite appearing a charming, dedicated public servant is in fact a sadistic predator who is the root of all the season's evil. Co-founding the Valhalla home for troubled boys in the late eighties, Pétur bribed the abusive staff into allowing him to regularly rape the boys. Afterwards Pétur would scar each victim with a heated hook knife just to ensure they could never forget what he did to them. Following Tommi trying to fight back Pétur murdered him, covering it up he bribing Magnus into falsifying a report. Following Valhalla shutdown, Pétur covered up the abuses, the trauma ruining many of the boy’s lives and driving several to suicide. Continuing to rape children whenever the opportunity presented itself up to the present day, Pétur crimes ended up inspiring the Valhalla Murderer to seek retribution. Discovering that a temporary worker at Valhalla was going to expose him Pétur stabbed him to death in his own home. His attempts to block Kata’s investigation into the corruption failing, Pétur attempted to drown her and sadistically beat then left Magnus for dead when he refused to turn a blind eye.
If their good, could someone please add them to drafts.
Edited by MGD107 on Feb 2nd 2021 at 3:35:22 AM
Yes to Ilsa.
Goku Black
Bachmann
Huh talk about unexpected.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Ilsa.
Thanks guys. XD.
@ACW I'll probably be effort posting a certain character from series 3 soon after I give it a rewatch. I haven't seen it for a good few years now and it's staled in my brain a bit, but from what I remember the guy was a potential keeper.
Edited by Atlantis1930 on Feb 2nd 2021 at 12:42:37 PM
Bachmann
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
Strange and Ilsa.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
BTW, Snowy has some more Artix proposals, so I'll hold off on submitting Noxus; Artix likely gets its own page. There are currently 6, plus Noxus=7, and there may be a cut, but there will be more proposals.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Hey guys, I had just decided to the reserve the upcoming 2024 musical platformer game, Billie Bust Up. It's looking pretty great so far. Though the wait for it is gonna be BRUTAL.
Okay, after skimming through Bitten to see if i can find an image for The Otherworld, i found some captions, some of which from Roman Navikev, and after seeing parts of episode 9 of third and final season, i want to check something out. See, there is this part of Roman Navikev's entry
since we had instances where we cut candidates who refuse to take responsibilty for killing someone, but someway feel remorse for killing, i want to bring up Roman Navikev's final speech, where it really feels like he feels remorse for killing her, here is the speech in 3 parts:
and also his death, which comes immediatly after this speech:
Edited by VeryVileVillian on Feb 2nd 2021 at 7:03:28 PM
The Moron
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
So having admittedly never seen this before, this seems pretty genuine, but since he's using it as an excuse for revenge, is it that he's angry at this other guy for the death of his daughter because he loved her - or it is a slight against him that he feels the need to punish? He has every reason to be lying if he's trying to justify his own actions, so I personally think it's still a little too ambiguous to move to cut
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
So if I've got this right, the question isn't whether or not he feels guilt because he genuinely seems to, but whether or not the fact that he never accepts it and instead pushes it onto others disqualifies him or not?
Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Feb 2nd 2021 at 12:01:01 PM
Evolution Requires Sacrifice.
As the one who proposed him...yeah this was probably not my best takes in retrospect.
The context was that Roman killed his estranged daughter in accordance to the laws he and other elder werewolves made - women had to be killed to uphold the masquerade and Roman's daughter had a relationship with Sasha, a male werewolf with whom she had a child and learned the existence of werewolves from. He the projected blame onto Sasha everytime he seemed to start feeling guilt over it.
Back then I felt it was a more ambiguous take on something like Viktor and Sonjia, but there was multiple factors that had me leaning to the belief that Roman isn't soncere in his claims (his entitlment, which pack laws he personally abides by, not honouring his daughters memory, and verbally admitting this is a matter of pride in a few scenes).
Honestly I feel Roman can go or stay. He was one of those EP's I used to do when I wasn't sure myself.
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
I say cut here
Yeah, total piece of shit but I think there's some genuine feeling there.
Goku Black
Cut Roman. I think he does at least feel some remorse for it.
Fun fact. He's not even a villain at all in the books. The witch hunts stuff is from the cabals and happened centuries before the series (Its a bit more gray. As the cabals only turned on the witches after they sold them out to the Spanish inquisition)
Edited by miraculous on Feb 2nd 2021 at 9:27:40 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
That being said, on a semi related note, I'm thinkng of bringing Marsten from that same series up on the MB thread, when I get back to rewatching the show.
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Cut Roman.
Self-Declared King of Everything
Cut him.
Question. On the Actors who Played and Fought C Ms sandbox, should I add two C Ms who opposed each other? Or does that not count?
Check out my current fanfiction project.
Goku Black
This sandbox already exist here Sandbox.CM Versus CM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I say that's fine to add; can also add to those who played and fought a CM in the same work.
Tarkin vs. Krennic & Craster vs. Karl Tanner come to mind.
Well then, never mind ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
Edited by ACW on Feb 2nd 2021 at 12:59:31 PM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Goku Black
Can I reserve Walker. I started watching it.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Okay, i've created Image Thread threads about picking images for Blood Books and The Otherworld, both of them locked until moderator reviews them. So, if anyone interested, they can vote, when the threads will be open, here and here.
Sidenote, but I really wish blatant redeeming qualities would stop being fostered off with "not sure" when they're actually incredibly obvious when you see them
What Lighty said: I've had to do dozens of rechecks to cut bad keepers and I tire of the pushback. There's debate, which is fine but there are also circumstances where there's a clear, objective answer and "Well I'm not sure about this" does nothing but highlight lack of understanding about the trope and turns what should be a simple procedure into a slog.
