During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Cap
Cap.
Sorry to hear about your uncle G. Here's hoping he pulls through.
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
No to the Santa villain. We're at least two weeks late proposing a Christmas-themed baddie ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
Yes to the Cap.
Wow, that sounds nasty but here's best wishes to G's Uncle
Anyway, I'll be super busy this January (company is launching at least 15 new products, and the advertising department - which I'm the sole Graphic Designer - have their work cut out. I'm even bringing my laptop home tomorrow to work on the weekends, so don't expect too much activity from me for the time being...)
Edited by RobertTYL on Jan 7th 2021 at 8:20:03 PM
"The Juice is Loose."
Based on the EP, to Cap.
G, best to your uncle. Hope he gets better.
After midnight where I am.
Gonna excuse myself while the Wonder Woman 1984 discussion goes on on both threads since I didn’t get to see it yet.
As for Soul (definitely a really good movie), nobody counts. Terry (the one counting all those going to the Great Beyond) is the closest thing the movie has to a villain and while she’s a snobby and obsessive jerk, she’s just doing her job.
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Jan 7th 2021 at 9:45:35 AM
Oh, this'll be quick: nobody counts in Wonder Woman 1984 at all. Nobody even comes close.
The Moron
Welp, guess that settles that then
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
before the movie came out, I was thinking Max would count based on his actions in the novelization Mir told me about (which conveniently left of the ending so that version can’t be EP’d), but yeah, he’s far away from this in the finished product.
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
Cap.
Alright, I know Valentine's Day is a month away, but I'll make this an early Valentine's Day EP, since the work centers around love.
What's The Work?
Do It For Me is a short, 20-30 minute horror platformer with Multiple Endings. Unlike my FILE proposal, this one does have a struggle. Our protagonist is a boy told by his loving girlfriend to kill the Wooffles, monsters that are terrorizing her. He sets out to kill them, and collect hearts representing his love for her. But the game starts glitching, and it becomes clear that something is wrong...
So, The Reveal is that the Wooffles are actually students at his school. He has been sent to kill innocent students. And his girlfriend is a total psycho.
Who is The Girlfriend? What does she do?
The unnamed girlfriend is a purple-haired girl who wants the protagonist to kill their fellow students for her amusement, telling him "DO IT FOR ME". The game's multiple paths are dependent on what you do. There are five endings, which I will copy-and-paste from the main page (and the entry was expanded by me anyway):
- "Puppet": Collect at least one heart and kill at least one Wooffle, but do not get all of them. This is the one the player is most likely to get first. You're arrested for killing the students while your girlfriend who manipulated you into doing it has you take the blame, screams "PLEASE, DON'T DO IT" to trick the police into thinking she is a victim of you, and gets off scot-free, telling the player "YOU SHOULD HAVE KILLED ALL OF THEM".
- "Blind Love": Collect all hearts and kill all Wooffles. You and your girlfriend finish the massacre together, with you fully in love with her. The girlfriend takes out her gun, saying "NO WITNESSES", and goes on to shoot more people, starting with the teachers' room.
- "Innocent Love": Collect all hearts without killing a single Wooffle. You refuse to commit the massacre, but can't bring yourself to breaking up with her. "IF YOU DON'T DO IT... I WILL." So she does the massacre herself... starting with you. "THEN I'LL START WITH YOU FIRST."
- "Psychopath": Kill all Wooffles without collecting a single heart. You commit the massacre... not for her, but for your own desire to kill the students. You finish it by killing her.
- "Awake": Get to the end without collecting a single heart or killing a single Wooffle. You come to your senses, reject your girlfriend, and get her arrested for illegal firearm possession.
Heinousness?
Tries to manipulate the protagonist into killing at least 15 innocent students with a knife, and in the endings where she succeeds, she goes on to kill more- or, in one ending, does it all herself. Even in the ending where the protagonist turns on her, she still facilitated his murders, and there is at least an implication that the protagonist turned into the titular Psychopath because of her pushing him to kill, corrupting him into liking it. Easy pass here, especially because she's not a supernatural horror, but a "mere" teen girl.
Mitigating Qualities?
Absolutely none. She pretends to love the boyfriend only to throw him under the bus in the "Puppet" ending, and the whole reason she manipulated him into committing the massacre can thus be assumed as needing a Fall Guy. If the protagonist refuses but doesn't call the police, she just kills him instead. She doesn't have a whole lotta lines, but the ones she does have establish her as manipulative, controlling, and, in the words of the protagonist, "A person who's only goal is to see people suffer and die!"
As for the short length itself, that is my primary concern- whether there is substantia plot. I say that there is characterization- the main character is a Love Martyr who has an internal struggle symbolically represented by the Retraux game world, has a Heel Realization in three endings, and becomes totally crazy in two, while the girlfriend is a controlling sadist. Not much, but it is definitely there, at least for me. I also talked with 43 about it and he said it was fine as well.
Verdict?
I says she's a keeper, but if you want to see for yourself, here is the download page and here is a video showing the game off.
I'm fine with her.
Professor Gigachad
Time for my next and last Sorcerer Hunters candidate.
What is the Work
Sorcerer Hunters is a manga and anime series about five hunters who hunt and punish any sorcerer that abuses their powers to harm innocents. Including the candidate, we will be talking about from Episode 2 Madama Amore.
Keep in mind his character is only from the anime.
Who is Velrose and What Has She Done?
Madama Amore is a sorceress who wanted to create what she called the “perfect man” to essentially have as her slave. To do this she kidnapped all the men in her village sucked out their souls using some pretty horrifying leech magic and used Any men that turned out ugly were executed. She also threatened to kill all the girls in her village if they didn't leave and never come back.
During the events of the Anime, the Hunters are sent to deal with her and she tries to suck out the souls of the Carrot, Marron and Gateau to try again at creating another perfect man. She nearly succeeds in her plans but is stopped just in time by Tira.
Does she have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
None that I can think of she has no sympathetic qualities she only cares about her own desires and doesn’t care who gets hurt for them to be achieved.
Does she meet the Heinousness Standard?
Considering her crimes she stands out as one of the two worst villains in the anime along with my previous candidate Velrose. As she is responsible fop wiping out all the men in a village and threatened to do the same used horrible soul magic all to create her “perfect man.”
The only villain who tries to do anything worse than them is the Big Bad Sacher Torte, and he is ultimately a Well-Intentioned Extremist who was trying to cleanse the human population of Earth so humanity could start over. He's ultimately defeated without killing very many people and effectively gives up on his goal. That is still someone to compete with but Velrose stands out with her serial murder and torture of men so yeah she meets the standard.
My next previous candidate Velrose is also pretty similar to her in many ways as both serial killers who kill men. Though both stand out in their own ways while Velrose turns men into statues Amore uses soul magic on them. Amora also has a higher body count than Velrose as well as an even higher attempted and their methods of torture are very different with Velrose just whipping while Amore uses soul-sucking plants.
Final Verdict?
I would go with a yes.
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
Yes to both.
EDIT: Never mind.
Edited by Stellarvore on Jan 7th 2021 at 12:32:04 PM
What made you remove that Stell? I was liking the points.
Seeing this on her character sheet:
- Freudian Excuse: Averted, as even in life while she wasn't a murderer she still cared only about herself and wasn't bothered in the slightest by how much she hurt Bill by cheating on him with his friend on Prom Night.
Plus I'm starting to wonder if maybe the sociopath argument might hold more weight than I thought it would.
Edited by Stellarvore on Jan 7th 2021 at 12:37:47 PM
yea to Amore, too
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
Edited by MasterN on Jan 7th 2021 at 10:55:25 AM
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
When she sucks out your soul
And her heart is a hole
That's Amore
(also the unnamed girlfriend from further up the page)
Current mood: sick of your shit
Amore is a bingo.
The girlfriend...less enthusiastic about her qualification considering one of the five endings has the protag in an Unholy Matrimony with her and another has him become worse than her. I'm leaning nay.
to Cap and Amore. What about girlfriend... I guess, I'll wait for more voices.
Girlfriend and Amore
Goku Black
Amore
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yes to Cap (add Dan Ewing to those who've played and fought a CM, as he played the Black Ranger who fought Venjix), yes to Amore, abstain for now on Girlfriend.
Edited by ACW on Jan 8th 2021 at 7:00:08 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts