During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Gentle Laborer
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Flagg, Thorne and Stalin.
A while ago we upvoted the Man in Black and Man in Grey from Horace. No problem with Grey staying, but there's something about Black that gives me a huge pause, which the effortpost failed to address. Horace can actually save him, Black will genuinely appreciate the rescue and seemingly repents, smiling at Horace before trying to shake hands as a form of gratitude.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
x5 The two endings are almost the same. Horace can let Black fall to his death or save him, only for Black to be assassinated by one of Horace's companions as revenge for the murder of his best friend. Either way, the Robot War will end and Horace still dies from the virus.
Edited by TheMadCr0w on Sep 9th 2020 at 6:27:58 AM
Messenger from another dimension.
Stalin.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yes to Stalin.
- The Peacemaker: While General Aleksandr Kodoroff may merely be the courier to Dušan Gavrić's plot to nuke the UN headquarters in New York, he totally lacks his employer's conscience and loved ones. To procure Gavrić's nukes, Kodoroff has his men massacre a train full of soldiers carrying a shipment of bombs, leaving one on the train that Kodoroff subsequently rerails into the direction of a passenger train. The ensuing collision and nuclear blast kills thousands, something that unsettles one of his men and prompts Kodoroff to execute him on the spot. Kodoroff later slaughters dozens more at a Russian checkpoint en route to Gavrić simply out of impatience. Kodoroff's only concern through all this is lining his own pockets, expressing disgust at a line of refugees simply for being poor.
Cut Black then.
Princess Vanellope
◊, Thorne, Stalin
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
For Black, we can probably keep but mention he doesn't count in all the endings?
EDIT: Oh, hmm, if ![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
X5 is the case...mind doing a rewrite?
Edited by ACW on Sep 9th 2020 at 6:12:16 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Goku Black
ACW: Doesnt count that way. With multiple endings if a badguy shows a redeeming quality in one they don't count at all. That's how it's all ways worked
So cut black
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
@Age: Yeah, that sounds like it'll cut it for the Northmen's leader. If the book is even giving him stuff as minor as facial dialogue, it's more than we had from the movie. Go for a post.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Really? I'm reminded of Maletoth.
As for Age's question: I say go for it. Hell, we have a version of Malekith from a game.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Stalin
Just a question: for Blue Duck’s entry, should we replace the uses of the indian, since that’s kind of a non-PC term when talking about Native Americans, or no?
to Stalin. Cut the Man In Black.
The Draftsman of Doom
Yes to Stalin, Cut MIB.
Feels good, don't it?
Based on that, ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
to keeping the Man in Black.
If you saw my post about it on the MB thread, here’s an update: recovery last night for my grandmother went well (no phone calls) and awaiting further word from my dad on how she’s doing.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Problem: The current Horace entry is a single entry for both MIB and MIG, so someone who knows the game will have to tweak it to focus more on MIG.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Showtime!
Cut black
Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?
Messenger from another dimension.
No problem with cutting the man in black. Don't know too much about him anyway.
Welcome to the world of greatest media!
@Age: That'll do it for the Viking boss/Harald Redtooth, yep
Cut the Man in Black
Could this rewrite work for now? I’ve never played the game, so feel free to fix it.
Horace: The Man in Grey is one of the leaders of "The Great and the Good" who believe that robots should be slaves to humans, and are far worse than the enemy robots. Using the robot Horace to create a race of robots as weapons of war to kill each other, when the robots instead revolt, the Man in Grey, along with his superior the Man in Black, flees to the moon with the world's leaders, leaving the rest of humanity to die. Waiting until Horace pacifies the robots with the NICE virus, Grey captures and executes the Man in Black's and Horace's extended family and four scientists, including Heather, while making Horace watch, before dismantling Horace and throwing him in a chamber to die. Intending to wipe out all robots and replace them with ones that have no free will, the Man in Gray attempts to kill the surviving family members, brutally beating Mr. Barry Silton and bragging of all the people he has tortured and killed as a CIA agent. While the Man in Black redeems himself in one of the endings, the Man in Grey never gets that luxury, cementing him as a monster.
EDIT: Changed “accomplice” to “superior”.
Edited by PurpleEyedGuma on Sep 9th 2020 at 9:58:17 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Hmm, that may work. Though I THINK the Man in Black's actually Gray's superior.
I'm only guessing, as I'm not familiar with the work myself, just going off the character pages. Crow, what say you?
Edited by ACW on Sep 9th 2020 at 9:58:56 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Then I’ll fix that.
Stalin (it’s been ten years and this is maybe only the third version of him to keep?)
to the Aleksandr Kodoroff rewrite.
to the Man in Black.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
4th, I think: This, Mephisto (possibly), Command & Conquer: Red Alert, Twilight Of The Red Tsar.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Also...Delphine has been banned. She reached out to me to ask me to let everyone know.
A few weeks ago, I proposed the Northmen Chief from The Secret of Kells, who was ultimately downvoted. Discussion started here
. He was ultimately downvoted for being an apparent Generic Doomsday Villain who didn't distinguish himself from the rest of the Northmen.
Well, I have a question: I found a novelization of the movie, by Eithne Massey, and it actually gives more character to the Northmen Chief, even showing he has a name, "Harald Redtooth."
The Chief, Redtooth, is still a pretty Flat Character (his only translatable line is still just "GOLD"), and he only appears in one chapter near the end, but all of the crimes of the Northmen are appointed to him as he is clarified to be their leader, and he even has extra moments of character, such as having named his sword "Monk Mincer" which is mentioned to be a bit of twisted humor, and he is shown to be wearing a massive grin while slaughtering the city of Kells. Also, when one of his men gets into argument with him over Redtooth hoarding treasure to himself, Redtooth nearly murders him in a fight over it, and Redtooth is also shown to be superstitious, as he orders his men to pack up and depart from Kells as soon as he sees a white bird, believing it is a bad sign.
So, to all who downvoted—particularly ~Lightysnake and ~Scraggle, as they have seen the movie—would you say these extra bits of character would be enough to warrant me proposing the Novelization!Northmen Chief/Redtooth?
Edited by AgeOfTropeEmpire on Sep 9th 2020 at 1:34:31 AM