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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#215101: May 27th 2020 at 11:05:59 AM

Attempted at the very least.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
SumDumNerd Current mood: sick of your shit from the Ever After Since: May, 2017 Relationship Status: Every rose has its thorn
Current mood: sick of your shit
#215102: May 27th 2020 at 12:24:58 PM

[tdown] Michael

And I think I'm gonna forget about the candidate I was going to propose. The heinous standard is too jacked up as of the game's latest update. For those of you who were wondering (I got a few messages), the game is The Seven Deadly Sins: Grand Cross of Light and Dark, and is a mobile game adaptation of the first season/part of the anime/manga. The villain was the main antagonist of a limited time crossover event named Lilia. A former student of Merlin, Lilia left her master and decided to destroy the world for no reason other than to prove how powerful she was. She uses summoning magic to try and summon an Eldritch Abomination to destroy the world, but accidentally summons the characters from the manga/anime That Time I Got Reincarnated As A Slime. After realizing her mistake, she tries to kill the characters, but they escape and eventually team up with the Seven Deadly Sins. The heroes go to find Lilia; on their way, they pass through a swamp filled with corpses, and Merlin reveals that Lilia sacrificed them all to fuel her summoning magic. They also discover that Lilia has taken several creatures from the Slime universe (Lizardmen and Orcs) and stripped them of their sentience, turning them into brainwashed soldiers. After fighting through the brainwashed soldiers (including the powerful Orc Lord), the heroes find Lilia and discover that she placed a curse on all the creatures she brainwashed, so that any damage they took would be converted into energy for her. Seeing as how the heroes just fought a whole swamp of them (as well as the aforementioned, very durable Orc Lord), Lilia uses all the power to transform into a demonic form and try to kill everyone and summon the Eldritch Abomination again. When she is defeated, she flees.

Now the heinous standard was already high due to the game being an adaptation of Seven Deadly Sins, but it was only the first arc, so the heinous standard wasn't as ridiculous. However, as of the update that came out a few days ago, they added the next arc featuring the Ten Commandments, so the heinous standard dwarfs the candidate now.

Edited by SumDumNerd on May 27th 2020 at 5:19:39 AM

Read "Ghost Stories of Remnant" here.
ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#215103: May 27th 2020 at 12:27:53 PM

VVV and I are gonna reformat the Top Cow page, so lemme just get these in now before we do.

  • Artifacts: Matthew Strow, from issue #33 ("The Teacher and the Preacher"), is a sadistic Serial Killer who practiced dark arts. Posing as a piano teacher, Matthew kidnapped 51 children and killed them, trapping their souls in his piano, where he would put them through constant agony by forcing his next victim to play it. Enjoying the sounds of their screams, Matthew planned to kill his latest victim after she would create a "perfect music" from the screams of his captured souls.
  • "The Pyromancer" or "the Firestarter", from the June and July 2000 and the June and August 2001 issues is a fire-obsessed demon who possessed the innocent math teacher Ray Perkins. Using his body to set buildings on fire, the demons decided to find a large truck full of explosive material and drive it to the center of a populated city, where he would blow it up, destroying a large part of the city and killing two thousand people. Deciding to present the biggest sacrifice to his masters, the Undying Ones, in exchange for power, the demon invaded the nuclear plant and planned to cause it to explode and destroy the city, killing millions of people. Returning after being defeated by Sara, the demon continues to kill people by burning them and tries to corrupt Sara Pezzini, the current wielder of Witchblade, so that he could use her as a weapon.
  • Mother Mary, from the August 2003 issue, is the cannibalistic head of a large meat production factory called "Mother's Meat", who ate her parents when she was young. Using her factory as a secret base, Mother Mary created a cult of cannibals and kidnapped dozens of people so they could carve them apart and eat them, with some of the victims being eaten alive. Transferring to Manhattan after she finds out that Witchblade is there, Mother Mary has her "sons" kill people and eat them, while she planned to devour Sara Pezzini to "get her power".
  • The nameless dark entity, from the July and August 2006 issues, is an extremely powerful being who was able to escape from his dimension and possess Jake McCarthy, Sara's former partner. Getting used to his body, the entity tricked Sara into giving him a view of his "future kingdom" before he attacked her. Revealing his intention on turning the Earth into a hellish nightmare, where people would burn alive for eternity, before he consumes the whole population of the planet, the entity taunts Sara with the fact that he will force Jake to watch as he will kill her and enact his plans.

Edited by ACW on May 27th 2020 at 4:06:33 AM

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#215104: May 27th 2020 at 12:49:59 PM

Ive got just a few more before writeups and I'm aiming to clear my final four DC villains: next up, from the mystical hero team Shadowpact: Dr. Gotham.

Who is Dr. Gotham?

An ancient warlock imprisoned beneath what would become Gotham city, whose evil poisoned Gotham to become a den of vice and misery, the sorcerer takes the name of Dr. Gotham upon being released and sets about trying to summon a being called the Sun King for power. Enacting powerful attacks through Chicago and announcing himself by holding a bus of kids hostage with full intent to kill, Gotham reveals he intends to summon the Sun King to the world to devour all its souls and grant him ultimate power...he does this by sacrificing his loyal right-hand woman Streega by inflicting her with an agonizing cancer to cause her death, with his schemes almost seeing the city destroyed by causing an eruption like Krakoa or Mt. Vesuvius in the heart

The Sun King gets impatient that Shadowpact isn't done and tells him to speed things up, and creates a clone/son from Gotham, who Gotham uses to gather sacrifices for the Sun King, until the clone goes offscript leading the two to square off....victims are, btw, brought to the Sun King and burnt to ash agonizingly while alive as he feeds off their souls. Gotham kills his son and escapes, harnessing many more souls to feed to the Sun King and help him manifest.

The Sun King? is prepared to devour and burn the world, but fulfills his word in a roundabout way: taking Gotham as his host and leaving him in a state of burning agony until the Sun King is killed...leaving Gotham's hollowed out corpse as all that remains.

Mitigating Qualities?

Gotham has nothing good to him. He's a pure evil warlock who uses and betrays people, even killing his own son without batting an eye, nor any remorse. His devotion to the Sun King is wholly selfish and Gotham? Has a wry sense of humor but no real honor. The only time he circumvents a huge body count is sacrificing Streega when she suggests sacrificing tons of people, but that's only because sacrificing her is faster and more valuable. He mentions he'll 'miss' her but he promptly forgets her and shows no hesitation killing her in a horrific manner.

For heinousness, he's the worst in Shadowpact, with loads of human sacrifice, summoning a fire elemental god to destroy the world, trying to nuke Chicago and lots of other murders.

Conclusion?

a narrow pass to Dr. Gotham, but a pass.

SumDumNerd Current mood: sick of your shit from the Ever After Since: May, 2017 Relationship Status: Every rose has its thorn
VeryVileVillian (Apprentice)
#215106: May 27th 2020 at 12:55:57 PM

[tup]Dr. Gotham

[up][up][up]there is a small grammatic error in invading part in fire demon entry.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#215107: May 27th 2020 at 12:59:08 PM

[tup]Gotham

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#215108: May 27th 2020 at 1:02:05 PM

My other for right now...an interesting case:

What's the work?

Warlord was a DC comic by Mike Grell, concerning US pilot Travis Morgan who crashlands...and finds himself in a strange world underneath the earth: Skartaris, a prehistoric deathland with magic, danger and primitive kingdoms...his great nemesis? The wicked Deimos.

Who is Deimos?

A supposed sorcerer-king, Deimos is in fact a charlatan who utilizes New-Atlantean technology, running an empire on slavery where people are punished by being turned into animals or killed. Morgan ends up liberating one his slaves, Princess Tara, and foils Deimos's plots to conquer all of Skartaris. Now, Deimos is a fairly basic villain through most of this, and his deeds mostly consist of generic warlordry until he tries to destroy all New Atlantis.

Deimos is killed but revived a few times...one of his worst deeds here? To regain his leverage, he kidnaps Travis and Tara's son Joshua, a baby...and clones him to have a weapon, aging what he thinks is Joshua to a grown man with the mind of a child....to force him to kill his father, or his father to kill him, deciding he wins either way. Travis is forced to kill his 'son' and kills Deimos as well...who comes back again anyways. In a final scheme to conquer Skartaris, Travis defeats Deimos and leaves him in the snows to be devoured by wolves.

This is the end of Deimos...until the 2015 crossover Convergence when Deimos returns. Brainiac ends up forcing heroes into mortal combat by capturing their cities, and the heroes uncover Skartaris where Deimos is up to his old tricks. Deimos betrays Brainiac and his envoy Telos, torturing the latter by revealing his past as a remade mortal and decides to harness Brainiac's power to get to more: he plans to steal the powers of time travelers and create a brand new Crisis, one to destroy the Multiverse so he can rebuild it as a god. All the heroes from all worlds challenge him, Deimos almost killing the lot of them until he is blindsided and defeated by their alliance...but not before gleefully torturing and seemingly obliterating his old nemesis Morgan. Hal Jordan, or Parallax (the villainous version from the 90s) ends up incinerating Deimos, burning him into nothing and ending his threat.

heinousness?

Deimos is a standard evil sorcerer with a few nasty moments, like trying to destroy a city, what he does with Joshua...until the end, 40 years after he's ntroduced when he tries to exterminate reality and remake it as a god with full on omnicide. A weird case, but...pass?

Mitigating Qualities?

Yeah, no.

Conclusion?

A weird case again, but...Comics, everybody

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#215109: May 27th 2020 at 1:04:52 PM

[tup]Deimos

Is convergance Canon. I thought It falls under lose canon.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#215111: May 27th 2020 at 1:07:22 PM

Well, it's Deimos with the same history. If it's 'loose canon,' so much the better.

Three last DC ones coming, and then a final Slaughter or two, and a couple of b movies.

Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#215112: May 27th 2020 at 1:08:53 PM

[tup] for Dr. Gotham and Deimos.

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
Libraryseraph Showtime! from Canada (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
Showtime!
#215113: May 27th 2020 at 1:11:39 PM

[tup] to Dr Gotham and Deimos

Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?
ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#215114: May 27th 2020 at 1:14:38 PM

Yes to both.

I guess Gotham goes to the main DC page, Post-Crisis? Or is the connection with Gotham City enough to also add him to Batman (hell, from the EP it seems he's the REASON Gotham City's such a Wretched Hive)?

And Deimos: Own entry like Dee? Under The Warlord? Pre-Crisis? Other continuities?

Personally, I'm thinking Gotham goes to both, Deimos goes under The Warlord in Pre-Crisis, with a mention of the Convergence activities.

EDIT: Oh, and I moved Exiles to the X-Men page. As for Holocaust, he'll be like Dark Beast at other 616.

Edited by ACW on May 27th 2020 at 4:19:46 AM

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#215115: May 27th 2020 at 1:19:39 PM

I said absolutely nothing in that EP to imply Dr. Gotham was a Batman villain

ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#215116: May 27th 2020 at 1:20:25 PM

I saw that, but with Gotham City? Eh, I don't really care too much either way.

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#215117: May 27th 2020 at 1:20:59 PM

I mean if their isn't any bat characters in it. I dont think we need to put it on the batman page.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#215118: May 27th 2020 at 1:22:23 PM

Shadowpact is not a Batman comic. I think the discussion ends there.

ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#215119: May 27th 2020 at 1:22:25 PM

Fair enough.

Also, holy hell, Marvel can be a bit tricky with characters that jump continuities (Maker, Holocaust, Mar-Vell, I'm looking at you), but DC continuity is a damn nightmare.

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
G-Editor Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
HamburgerTime The Merry Monarch of Darkness from Dark World, where we do sincerely have cookies Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: I know
The Merry Monarch of Darkness
#215121: May 27th 2020 at 1:50:19 PM

[tup] Dr. Gotham and Deimos. Have you read, like, the entire DC corpus now, Lighty? You say you're on your "last four" candidates.

The pig of Hufflepuff pulsed like a large bullfrog. Dumbledore smiled at it, and placed his hand on its head: "You are Hagrid now."
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#215122: May 27th 2020 at 1:51:43 PM

It's mostly key arcs of villain who slipped under the radar a touch too long.

3 more, plus one who's got a potential collab with Scraggle

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#215123: May 27th 2020 at 1:53:32 PM

Your doing Eclipso right ?

I was surprised that one hasn't been discussed before.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
#215124: May 27th 2020 at 2:00:57 PM

Yes to Dr. Gotham and Deimos.

CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#215125: May 27th 2020 at 2:14:47 PM

[tup] Dr. Gotham and Deimos. [tdown] Michael.


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