During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
So she... tries to kill the heroes and we need to talk about that? Your other one was fine man, less can be more.
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
Alright. Good point. Reverted.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
I am the local Grammar Nazi, so I pay close attention to grammar.
Edited by MasterN on Apr 16th 2020 at 11:52:56 AM
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Also ACW just so you're in the loop N added the word "innocents" after "consuming countless" in my rewrite for the cat, just so you know for requesting the change and they aren't awkwardly off by one word.
Nvm I see you got that ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
Edited by 43110 on Apr 16th 2020 at 2:47:07 PM
So does anyone else think Atomic Skull should get another look?
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I also think he may be worth a re-EP.
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
He might be worth a second look, sure.
I know it won't really matter, but if anyone wants to vote on Ryoko just because, here is the EP.
~ACW: No, Ryoko is the only real qualifier, as far as I know. As I said in the heinousnness section, Sayko loves Lady Mikuni, who loves her back. Sayko even does a Heel–Face Turn by the end. Hiruko, meanwhile, is clearly a Puppet King who does not enjoy what he does, and he also does a Heel–Face Turn after being freed from his prison and going to heaven. To make another Akame comparison, he is the child Emperor to Ryoko's Prime Minister Honest. As for Himiko, info on her is pretty damn vague- I still do not know what she is supposed to be. ~Lightysnake might know. Either way, however, she only appears at the very end as the Final Boss, so I am unsure if she even has the personality to qualify.
That being said, the manga version, from what little I have read, has a substantially different plot, and it looks like Manga!Ryoko is not the resident CM, but her grandfather is. Can someone look into that?
Edited by MasterN on Apr 16th 2020 at 12:15:49 PM
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Provided the manga is of a higher quality than AgK I'll take a look there.
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
The anime definitely is, but the manga, from what I have read, is a bit more on the crass side...? There certainly seems to be more focus on Fanservice, as opposed to the anime which was much more conservative, and it kinda does have a bit of the dumb edgy feel, again in contrast to the anime which was more subdued in its drama. Well, just letting you know. Feel free to judge for yourself.
Angry German Kid. No, I'm kidding- Akame ga Kill!, actually.
Edited by MasterN on Apr 16th 2020 at 12:27:23 PM
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
RIP Toriyama
Yeah Atomic Skull deserves a re-effortpost, I've always been extremely iffy on the reasons he was rejected originally (the argument that the film having a CM would be "against the point" is one I remember thinking was absolute bullshit), so yes, please do bring him up Overlord!
- G.I. Joe Extreme: Iron Klaw is the maniacal leader of SKAR (Soldiers of Khaos, Anarchy and Ruin), using his public guise of Count Von Rani to cover up his heinous acts. Iron Klaw abuses and threatens his own minions into submission and regularly endangers innocents in his schemes for power, never hesitating to test out a new weapon or acquired Kill Sat on entire cities. In one of his most horrific crimes, Iron Klaw subjected dozens of captured men to experiments that left them mutilated monstrosities that he abandoned to die, and when the sole "success," Wreckage, lost his memory, Iron Klaw manipulated him into believing America was behind his trauma, and uses him as a weapon that he discards as soon as he runs out of usefulness. Iron Klaw's grandest scheme comes when he invades a meeting of dozens of world leaders and infects them all with a deadly plague, using them as hostages to enable his takeover of America, and, when Iron Klaw's attempts to gain control of America's nuclear weapons to use in a conquest of Earth fails, he orders the world leaders be burned alive and their screams broadcasted for all his enemies to hear.
- Superman Lives:
- Dan Gilroy script: Brainiac is a attention-craving computer program developed by Jor-El of Krypton who rebelled out of petty jealousy that Jor-El spent more time with his family than Brainiac. Brainiac orchestrated the destruction of Krypton, personally trying to kill Jor-El's infant son Kal-El while making him watch before settling for slaying Jor-El and his wife when Kal-El escapes. Spending decades tracking Kal-El down, Brainiac arrives on Earth and kills several innocent people before possessing the body of Lex Luthor, using it to discover that Kal-El is now the beloved hero Superman. Endangering dozens of schoolchildren to draw Superman out, Brainiac uses the monstrous Doomsday to kill Superman and tries to take his place as Earth's savior, flying into a spiteful rage when he realizes humanity will always love Superman and deciding to destroy the entire planet. After kidnapping Lois Lane and her niece and use them as a "family" to spite the memory of Superman, Brainiac threatens their lives when Superman returns to face him and uses his last moments to mock Superman on how his parents screamed when Brainiac killed them.
- Kevin Smith script: Brainiac here is depicted as an ancient, digital entity that seeks godhood. Having arrived on Krypton under the illusion of protecting the planet, Brainiac truthfully drains its core of all power, leading to the planet's destruction. As Brainiac combs the universe looking for the legendary Eradicator robot so as to drain its power and become invincible, he regularly drains the life forces of aliens he comes across, and captures others to store as specimens in his "menagerie." Upon landing on Earth, Brainiac drains LexCorp security guards of their life forces and teams up with Lex Luthor, unleashing Doomsday onto Metropolis to kill Superman, uncaring of the many citizens Doomsay kills in his rampage. When Superman is seemingly killed, Brainiac betrays Luthor and kills the man's lover in front of him, before trying to wipe out hundreds of Metropolis civilians while declaring his new status as god over all human life.
- Green Lantern: The Animated Series: Myglom is a seemingly moral warden of a Green Lantern prison, but is in actuality a cannibalistic sadist who masks his villainy as a "rehabilitation program." Myglom subjects dozens of prisoners to a machine that makes them relive their worst memories over and over again before webbing them up to be devoured at his leisure. When Hal Jordan and Kilowog deliver the Red Lantern Razer to Myglom's prison, Myglom subjects Razer to the same torments of his other prisoners, and when Hal and Kilowog realize Myglom's villainy, he captures them and plans to eat them alive after using his nightmarish machine on them.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I know I've asked this before, but just slot Myglom at the end of the tree since he's just a one-shot villain?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
RIP Toriyama
Yep, that sounds for the best!
Oh, and also, cut the Warlord and Jeanne, 43 sums up my thoughts on the situation preety succinctly as usual so that's my reasoning for that
Can do!
Edited by Ravok on Apr 16th 2020 at 1:09:36 AM
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
BTW, Ravok, mind linking to the scripts?
EDIT: Oh, and unless Lighty objects, I think it's fine if you do Overlord's final entry.
Edited by ACW on Apr 16th 2020 at 4:13:40 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Ryoko
Gentle Laborer
Pale Lady and Ryoko
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Warlord
Having discussed this topic with 43, I'd also like to reevaluate the Big Bad Ensemble of Siren 2 and Dr. Kira.
Mother & Otoshigo are two different cases: Mother is certainly heinous since she was source of everything that happened to the island and is a Manipulative Bitch extraordinaire... but I recently came to the conclusion that she's also a Generic Doomsday Villain for most of the game, she has no other goals other than breaking out of her pocket dimension and ruling the human world cuz she's an evil Eldritch Abomination. Mother's psycho boyfriend, Otoshigo, a Psychopathic Manchild possessing the body a young girl, is way more "human" in contrast to her mysterious and alien aura, and actively seeks to kill anything in sight for pleasure and sadism... and most of his victims are Mother's own servants, his bloodthristy nature is indirectly (and ironically) a good thing for the protagonists; even if he's not afraid to kill humans, a big portion of his victims are also demonic beings, and Otoshigo's last appearance has a very brief, blink-and-you-miss-it Alas, Poor Villain moment with him wanting to return "home" after failing to reunite with Mother.
Now, Dr. Kira, while he is a Tennoji Expy and his Killer System is a dangerous plan, that's all there is to it. He's a stereotypical Mad Scientist in a multiverse filled with them and his goal is far from unique in the grand scheme of things, even if the story is self-contained and takes place in one of the countless parallel universes. Speaking of Kamen Rider, nobody counts in the recent two-hour long Gaim Gaiden Zangetsu, the members of the Big Bad Ensemble are ridiculously heinous enough: They subjected the population of an entire country to a Viral Transformation in a failed experiment, burned the whole nation to the ground and one of them even forced the teenage survivors to live underground to unwillingly participate in a snuff operation where they have to kill each other for the entertainment of the upper-class... But, Masahito has a last-second Alas, Poor Villain moment and Kagiomi is, for some reason, treated as a comic relief character.
Edited by TheMadCr0w on Apr 16th 2020 at 6:02:51 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Kira seems like a cut; I'll trust you on the other 2.
What's the Alas, Poor Villain moment?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
"recently came to the conclusion that she's also a Generic Doomsday Villain for most of the game, she has no other goals other than breaking out of her pocket dimension and ruling the human world cuz she's an evil Eldritch Abomination."
Isn't Take Over the World a motive?
Cut the rest though
Edited by Kylotrope on Apr 15th 2020 at 11:01:14 PM
Things are really about to get Fun around here
Kira always struck me as suspect for a while, honestly. Cut him. He's not bad enough. Ditto with the Siren 2 duo.
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
If that is the only issue, then keep Mother. Hell, Dogen, a recent keeper of mine, is also a typical Take Over the World guy with not much in the way of personality, but his deeds and sadism are sufficient personality to qualify him. Like Dogen, Mother is heinous, she is manipulative, she has a goal... not seeing the issue with her. The other two can go, though.
Edited by MasterN on Apr 16th 2020 at 2:11:33 AM
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Cut the Siren 2 villains and Kira
—signature not found—
Cut them. Ryoko still keeps as she did when I first got her up
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Actually, I'm leaning toward keeping Mother too. Otoshigo seems like a cut though.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Wild Child
Ryoko.
Gentle Laborer
Agency is another possible issue with the Siren duo. They were said to have originated from the "darkness", which is kinda open to interpretation, and Mother's own "Avatars" have a human consciouness and are capable of rebelling against her. As for Masahito's Alas, Poor Villain moment, he has a touching reconciliation with the protagonist just before he dies.
Edited by TheMadCr0w on Apr 16th 2020 at 6:16:37 AM
Yeah, cut Warlord.