During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
~ACW: By the way, can you replace the Big Bad pothole in Lan Asuka with Treacherous Advisor?
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Micheal: No worries.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Done.
Wary DOES raise a good point; I think he still counts, but ARE his actions portrayed as especially bad?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
I would say yes. The Departed portrays mobsters as usually trying to fly under the radar. Costello is a special sort of crazy by their standards. The most vile other person in the film is probably Sullivan, but everything he does is limited and done to keep his cover, and not as bad as Frank.
Handsome Head of Hyperion
I would agree with Lightysnake on this one, Costello is portrayed as the boss of most of the mobsters seen onscreen anyway, and even of those he is shown to be feared and regarded as dangerous and evil. Costigan routinely refers to him as a "mass murderer," and the police force treats Costello as the number 1 criminal threat to the city.
Sullivan himself, the other main villain, is a scumbag with a few murders on his hands, but he is nowhere close to Costello's villainy, and even then has redeeming features. Costello intimidates and terrifies everyone around him except those he has tricked into thinking he's a buddy to, like French, but whom even them he is willing to abandon.
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Costello
If the other mobsters think of Costello as really evil then yeah he's a from me
Edited by WaryHoglet on Feb 7th 2020 at 4:37:40 AM
Tentative to Costello
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Costello seems an easy yes then.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Dry Eye.
Jimmen.
Frank Costello. Now we need a CM named "Abbot" to balance it out.
Cross-wired freak
CJ the Lurker is back!
I decided to do another one of these, guys! This time, it's another Vocaloid song!
What's The Work?
Pierrot by Machigerita-P, and yes, I do have to clarify that it's the song by Machigerita. There are way too many Vocaloid songs with the word "pierrot" in them. It can be viewed here, with the English translation here.
I think this one should be more substantial than the "Pink Rabbit" one I suggested, as it gives the villain a clearer motive for his actions. Or at least, I think it does.
Who Is Pierrot and what has he done?
His name is Pierrot! He loves children very much! He always makes them laugh and they always let him make them laugh!
Pierrot was originally a Non-Ironic Clown who liked to perform for children and wanted to be liked. However, it turns out that the laughter he's been receiving for his act was not laughter of entertainment, but laughter of mockery. As hard as he tried to entertain them, Pierrot couldn't get them to like his act unironically and after one too many mocking jeers, his heart "became filled with murky darkness".
Something inside him must have snapped, as he then reached the epiphany that he must kill the children to make them "forever his". He kidnaps them, traps them in his room, and horribly tortures and disfigures and murders them in gruesome ways (there's mention of one child's "face becoming shaved away"), delighting in their terrified reactions. The stench of blood is "very pleasant" to him, and he declares that even when the children become disfigured, he won't stop.
He also slips into really creepy territory when he declares that they must become his because their "faces are cute", as well as stating that they "taste delicious", and declaring in the end how much he loves the children's "cute faces", "beautiful bodies" and "spotless innocence".
The last thing we hear in the PV is unsettling circus music punctuated by a high-pitched scream, presumably from one of Pierrot's victims.
Heinous Standard?
As the only villain in the song, he obviously sets it.
Mitigating Qualities?
Not really. He decided to commit murder and possibly other horrible things partly because the children mocked him, and partly out of his own depravity. The former is just petty and disproportionate, the latter is self-explanatory.
Conclusion?
It's a short song and short entry, but I feel like he's a better candidate than Pink Rabbit was. I'm leaning towards yes, but I'll let you guys decide.
Edited by CJCroen1393 on Feb 7th 2020 at 5:26:22 AM
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
So, after Brendon turned out to be a success, here is my next RPG Maker horror candidate.
What's the work?
Alice Mare is an RPG Maker horror game and novel. It stars Allen, an amnesiac boy who is one of six children (well, actually five- one of them has a Split Personality) adopted by a kindly caregiver they call Teacher. One night, everyone falls into a deep sleep, and wake up in a Dream World. Now, Allen must help the others escape, while helping them confront their dark pasts.
The game is one big Alice Allusion, and the Cheshire Cat is a key character. In fact, he is the Big Bad; and of course, my candidate.
Who is the Cheshire Cat? What does he do?
The Cheshire Cat is the demon who trapped Allen and the others in the Dream Worlds. His race, the demons, need to feed on souls to survive. But while they could simply dine on animal souls, the Cat finds human souls much more delicious. He and the other demons are responsible for the phenomenon known as Nightmare Syndrome, where humans fall asleep and never wake up. Cheshire, under orders from Teacher (surprise), stole the World Keyes needed to escape the dream. He challenges Allen to find the Keyes and escape, but he will not make it easy.
Allen spends the game trying to save the other kids, Letty/Rick, Chelsy, Joshua, and Stella. Each of the worlds is based on a Fairy Tale- and each one is also based on the dark past of the dreamer. Through the dream, the Cat sadistically psychologically tortures the children, eventually forcing them to confront their worst nightmare. He conjures up an illusion of Letty's abusive stepmom and has the illusion try to kill her, then an image of the wolf who killed Chelsy's grandma and makes Chelsy relive her grandma's death, shows Joshua an image of his mother who hanged herself, and makes Stella kill herself via eating poison apple. All four of the children, by the time they leave their respective worlds, are so traumatized that none of them can speak.
In the endgame, he gives Allen a Sadistic Choice. Allen, to escape, must sacrifice someone. Allen must stab someone with the final key, and once that happens, the Cat will claim the soul of the stabbed one. The first four endings have him claim the soul of one of the four children. If Allen chooses to pursue the final world, the last two endings have Teacher sacrifice himself instead as penance. Cheshire then consumes Teacher's soul.
Now, the fifth ending and novel ending have something different. In it, the Cat reveals that the body that he possesses is made of body parts from his prior victims, including a boy, girl, and normal cat. Cheshire then gives Allen the choice of sacrificing himself, and the Cat will return the other kids and Teacher as payment. Allen thus gives his body and soul to Cheshire, who possesses his body. Cheshire then releases Teacher, but implies he plans to go back on the deal and kill them anyway. The novel has Teacher confronting him... and then just kinda ends.
So yeah, no matter what, the Cheshire Cat claims a soul and gets away with it.
...if this were Tyk EP-ing him, there would probably be a sarcastic FUCK YEAH or something here.
Heinousness?
Big Bad, sets it. Teacher is an Anti-Villain at worst, and though Cheshire kinda is working for him, conversations between them in the novel make it clear that Cheshire is the Dragon-in-Chief while Teacher is desperately trying to limit his influence as much as possible. The White Rabbit, Cheshire's partner in crime, does not do anything villainous onscreen, so he is right out. We also never see any other demons, so Cheshire's crimes are unique within the context of the story.
As for baseline, he traps kids in nightmares, psychologically torments them until they can't speak, then eats their souls and rips off a part of their body to patch up his own body. No matter the ending, he winds up getting away with someone's soul.
Mitigating Qualities?
The only one is that he needs to eat souls to survive, but a) we put up the Other Mother and that other Cat Demon despite this, so I see no difference, and b) right after he says his, he clarifies that he can easily eat the souls of frogs or some other animal, but chooses humans because, to paraphrase, he finds their despair delicious.
Verdict?
That is my writeup, so now is voting time.
Edited by MasterN on Feb 7th 2020 at 6:42:32 AM
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Cross-wired freak
to Pierrot and Cheshire
to Pierrot and Cheshire
to both yeah.
@Beast: We have Leon Abbot from Artemis Fowl.
Also for Pierrot and Chershire
to Pierrot and Cheshire.
Have John Wayne Gacy or Jeffrey Dahmer ever been portrayed as CMs?
Lizzid people!
Gacy, yes. Dahmer...I always thought he was a smidge too delusional. What with him trying to make his own obedient zombie.
The MILF Virus
Pierrot, C.C and Costello
The wifi here sucks
Jimen, Cheshire and Costello
Edited by papyru30 on Feb 7th 2020 at 8:26:14 AM
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
Jinmen, Costello, Pierrot and Cat
Oh total to Costello! You don't gotta ask me twice!
I know most have said their piece about Dry Eye at this point, but...anyone else by any chance?
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Feb 7th 2020 at 8:00:56 AM
The former has the film To Catch a Killer, the latter has Quentin P. from Zombie.
As an aside, I've watched the 2003 film Gacy, and its interpretation of Gacy (played by Mark Holton of Leprechaun and Pee-Wee's Big Adventure fame) surprisingly does not count.
Messenger from another dimension.
Yes to Jinmen and Costello.
Yes to Pierrot too.
Edited by emperors on Feb 7th 2020 at 10:41:52 AM
Welcome to the world of greatest media!
You know, I was set to downvote Costello, but hearing it laid out?
I think I lean yes now. Good work, Age.