During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Gonna catch up on EP's later but James Rolfe ie AVGN did a video on which Dracula adaptation was most faithful. The Oldman version came second and first was a BBC series due to it not having as many creative liberties as Oldman's.
EDIT: ...yes to that Nazi freak.
Edited by PolarPhantom on Oct 9th 2019 at 11:24:21 AM
The MILF Virus
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Asimov and Maximillian.
I kinda knew Asimov was a shoe-in especially when checking the game online. I never liked that guy even in the 1st game, and I knew he was full of crap.
"Are you the devil?" "Don't compare to me to those small fry" - Mir
The Nazi (can't spell that title correctly), Asimov, and Maximillian.
I thought sharks were my friends.
Yay to Max and Asimov.
ACW, I think it looks good! Sorry if it seems like I'm policing the entry, just trying to make sure it's accurate.
RIP KissAnime.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Nah, no worries. It is your character after all 
I'll submit that, along with the Ruth rewrite and and Gharnef writeup when I get back from synagogue this afternoon.
Mir, mind posting those quotes again for the Simon R. Green page?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Goku Black
New ep. A vampire one to go along with the halloween mood. Perhaps up their with Cory Littleton as my most Ax-Crazy badguy.
Here's the old ep for anyone wondering
Plus a cute poem from the book to remeber what each does
Corsai, Corsai, tooth and claw,
Shadow and bone will eat you raw.
Malchai, Malchai, sharp and sly,
Smile and bite and drink you dry.
Sunai, Sunai, eyes like coal,
Sing you a song and steal your soul.
Monsters, monsters, big and small,
They’re gonna come and eat you all.
So remember Callum Harker. Here his second -in command and the true Big Bad of the duology.
Sloan is a Malachai (vampire) born from Callum's first big act of violence. Callum gathered all his rival gang leaders together and exeucted them, creating sloan. Acting as Callum's right-hand man, Sloan murdered Callum's wife when Callum demanded she be retrieved (which callum didnt really care about since hes a piece of shit). Anyway Sloan is ambitious, he wants power, he no longer wants to be a lackey. He convinces his people the malachai who are currently esnalved by Callum that he'll giev them freedom and they'll be able to hunt again. Sloan though doesnt just hunt people becuase he needs to like the rest of the malachai since they feed on human blood. No we see inside his head and je gets off on cuasing mass death and destruction.
In the first book Our Savage Song, under order from his boss, he plans to assaanaite Katie along with August's douavhebag bro to restart the civial war. Siad bro is perfectly cool with the fact that during their kindapping attempt, Sloan slashed his sister Isla's throat, leaving her nearly dead and peramtly voiceless forever (I am still debating whether to ep him. The sheer betrayl of his family like this due to being a douchy Knight Templar who wanted to cleanse the city of "fallen" is immense but Callum and Sloan might have him outdone). Anyway August busts them and two betray each other with sloan being stabbed and left for dead by August brother. Hes then rescued by Alice Harker (an ambitious malachai) who desires his help.
Now this isnt to impressive. Second book, This Dark Duet though. Anyway Sloan has sworn venegance on Katie, for the past three months hes kidnapped any blond girl even losly fitting her description and then brutally kills them, savouring the feel of them dying in his hands.... His men dont exactly get much better treatment. Slaon will kill them for no reason. One of them had come to him expecting to be at least conrgatulted for doing a good job, Sloan made him close his eyes for his "gift" and then ripped out his throat for giggles. He does that all the time in the book. Anyway with Alice, he creates the fangs. Humans who Alice doses on a cocktail of drugs and enchaments that turn them into pyshcopaths and unleashes them in his war on the south of the city, killing untold number of people.
Anyway Sloan discovers a new monster breed named the chaos eater which had been created by the war starting. A mindless monster which lives to kill, he becomes facstinted by it and its ability to inflict cruelty. Capturing it, he intends to relase it on the most populated area on southern city in order so he can pretty much jack off to its murder spree and destroy the last resitance to allow him to become king of the entire of verity. Launching an bombing that opens up a path, he unleahses it despite the danger it could cuase to even his own people and even enters the capital so he can have the best view. Their he disovers Isla who he thought dead and tries to kill her, August comes and fights Sloan eventually killing him by impaling him on a metal spike in the debris. Isla then uses the last of her powers to detonate herself to kill the chaos eater and save citziens.
Malachai hunt people for blood but THIS is abnoramly evil for them. Sloan doesnt even eat anyone from anyone he kills. He likes to kill just becuase. Even the smallest of redeeming qualities they have like gratditude for hardwork or appreciation is something he spits on. Hes a sadistic fuck that even his own race think is crazy.. He and Alice are 1000X worse then any other malachai in the book. Plus you know what Sunnai are also born from violence and capable of good, so why do we assume Malachai cant when creatures born the exact same way as sloan are capable of good deeds.
Othe redeeming qualities
Nah. Hes evil and loves it and relishes it.
He doesnt give a shit about his own kind as you can tell.
Hes okay with alice seemingly but he beats her if she says anything he doesnt like and reveals hes going to kill her after this with a smile in his thoughts.
No loayl;ty to Callum either.
Heinous standard
Not even an issue. Sure Callum started the first war so you could argue he has a higher boydcount overall and is responsible for strating the second one but Sloan is still stupidly nasty. In the second one kills hundreds,tortures and mutulates several people, the whole thing with Fangs is something he commissioned plus his final plan on south city. Plus his awful treatment of minions. I'd say pass.
Edited by miraculous on Oct 9th 2019 at 6:22:00 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
Sure there.
J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
I thought sharks were my friends.
Sure to Sloan. Reminds me of Kefka.
RIP KissAnime.
Shin Megami Tensei IV
Sloan
The Obersturmfuhre
Asimov
Maximillian Norcross (That surname is cursed)
The Collector
To ACW: Fun that you mention Beria, I found one story named Beria's Soviet Union and...no, it really didn't went full dystopia. Beria is a curious case actually, he in a personal level was a absolutely despicable man, but in a Political Level, he tended to go for Pragmatic Villainy, his role in Stalin's purges aside.
In that TL, Beria pretty much manages to be basically a competent Post-Stalin leader of the Soviet Union, so No, Not a Keeper. Still a asshole with tons of rape, but the story basically was about how a Awful Man can get himself remembered fondly for history.
Edited by KazuyaProta on Oct 9th 2019 at 9:26:29 AM
Watch me destroying my country
I've got another DND example, this one from Forgotten Realms
What's The Setting
- Forgotten Realms, a Dungeons & Dragons setting
Who Is He
- Balagos the "Flying Flame". A great red dragon who is detailed here as part of the Wyrms Of The North series
What Is He Like/What Has He Done?
- In addition to being greedy, cruel and violent like most red dragons, he has a disturbing habit of kidnapping other dragons, biting their wings off so they can't escape, and forcing them to guard his lair, although he eats them once they get old enough to pose a real threat. He currently has a younger brown and black dragon as his slaves/guards, and treats them horribly, including starving them and forcing them to fight eachother, promising the winner he will be freed despite having no intention of doing so. So far his slave dragons are to afraid to mount an escape or help anyone fight him. as he says he will slowly burn and eat them to death if they try. There was also an event where a wizard in a town nearby gave a speech critical of Balagos, to which Balagos responded by flying down and eating him in front of the entire town, seemingly just to strike fear into everyone living there. He's also a straight up megalomaniac who thinks he is destined to rule all of Faerun. (while most dragons, even good ones, are somewhat arrogant, he takes it Up To Eleven for sure.)
Does He Have Any Good Qualities?
- No, the only vaguely good thing he's done is kill some Zhentarim (a sort of fantasy version of The Mafia) members. and that was because they were trying to raid his lair, not because they were evil or anything.
Is He Bad Enough
- He certainly strikes me as the worst of the evil Wyrms Of The North. Between kidnapping enslaving, torturing and eating other dragons, killing people for extremely trivial reasons, and being an egomaniacal asshole even by red dragon standards. I'd say sure.
Verdict
- Yep
Edited by Bootlebat on Oct 9th 2019 at 7:33:09 AM
An Eldritch Troper
@Bootlebat Could you explain how he stands out not just among his species, but also whether he sticks out compared to other Forgotten Realms characters, such as Lolth and Cyric?
Humanity is defined by its absurdity, and I am no exception.
Yeah, from just that, I'm not sure Balagos breaches the heinous standard for Forgotten Realms considering how jacked up it is, as fucked as that thing is for young dragon slaves. Yes to Sloan
The only thing that may qualify Balagos I'm seeing is his wish for a war of genocide.
Edited by Lightysnake on Oct 9th 2019 at 7:47:32 AM
I thought sharks were my friends.
Abstain on Flying Flame.
Don't miss Mir's ep, guys.
Edited by DelphineTheDelphox on Oct 9th 2019 at 7:50:17 AM
RIP KissAnime.
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
Sloan sounds like a yay. But I'm abstaining on D&D candidate
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Carrot Clone
Sloan
to Asimov, Maximilian and Sloan
Darkwing Goose
Asimov, Max, Sloan, Balagos
the Nazi guy. I actually do know a version of Dirglewagner that might qualify, but it's from a game demo for a game I'm discussing potentially in early Q2 of next year. Should I do a Deltarune sort of Effortpost for this incarnation of Dirglewagner(as well as another qualifier in the demo)?
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Balagos, seems to be a jacked up heinous standard at play here.
Edited by xie323 on Oct 9th 2019 at 8:20:37 AM
Showtime!
to Sloan, abstain on the Flying Flame
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
Sure to Balagos, if only for his genocide intentions.
J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
to Sloan. Abstain on Balagos.
While Balagos hasn't done as much evil as Cyric and Lolth, I would say that's mainly because they are way more powerful. If he were a greater god as well I'm sure he would try to conquer Faerun and start a genocide. Also, the whole thing about him murdering someone for criticizing him seems especially disturbing in light of things like the Charlie Hebdo massacre, although I'm not sure that should affect his CM status or not.
No, it doesn't, and don't use real world tragedies in a cheap attempt to oversell heinousness of a fucking DND candidate.
What you should be working on is comparing him to CM's like Aerisi, Irenicus, Yvonnel, Akhalur and so forth.
Edited by Lightysnake on Oct 9th 2019 at 8:44:33 AM
I thought sharks were my friends.
Calm down, Lighty.
RIP KissAnime.
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]")
Asimov and Maximilian
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."