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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

G-Editor Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#73051: Dec 5th 2016 at 9:36:19 PM

[tup] Shao Khan

Unsure on Shredder

Overlord Since: Mar, 2013
#73052: Dec 5th 2016 at 10:03:38 PM

[tup] To Khan.

I don't think movie Shredder counts because I don't think his ninjas are child soliders. He raises these kids to be thieves more then anything else. The Foot's M.O to steal anything they can, quickly and quitely. They did not go around murdering people, if Shredder made them assassins, that would be different. Sure he has them attack the Turtles, but that is standard bad guy stuff. Shredder is a Jerkass, but he is not quite evil enough to be a monster.

Awesomekid42 Since: Jul, 2012
#73053: Dec 5th 2016 at 10:14:39 PM

So just wondering, for when Super reaches it's next major arc, will username still be doing the effort posts for it?

MiraiYuji Since: Dec, 2015
#73054: Dec 5th 2016 at 10:16:17 PM

[up]Only if Username reserve for them.

Awesomekid42 Since: Jul, 2012
#73055: Dec 5th 2016 at 10:18:09 PM

[up] So the person who reserves the effort post can switch by arcs then?

Ravok RIP Toriyama Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
RIP Toriyama
#73056: Dec 5th 2016 at 10:29:59 PM

Alrighty, as promised, another villain to add to the "has no right being in a kids' show" pile, the second baddie from Max Steel (2000)....

Who is he?

Psycho (Known unaffectionately to Max Steel as "Smiley") is The Heavy of the series, The Dragon to Big Bad John Dread, and the Arch-Enemy of Max Steel.

What has he done?

Considerably longer rapsheet than the aforementioned Dread incoming.

Psycho's first chronological crime in the series is breaking into an N-Tek base to steal nanoprobes, and, when the young teen Josh McGrath notices this and wanders into the base, Psycho assaults the boy before spilling the chemical all over him, leaving him to die in agony as he succumbs to the nanoprobes (What? He survives and becomes Psycho's greatest enemy, Max Steel? Talk about KARMA).

Later, Psycho breaks into a biological lab that is holding a lethal plague, and plans to steal it, then blackmail....well, the WORLD with it, as it's deadly enough to kill every living thing on the planet.

When N-Tek and Max Steel show up, Psycho gets THIS perfect line:

Mook: "You want hostages, sir?"

Psycho: "I have six BILLION hostages!"

When he realizes he's losing the inevitable duel with Steel, Psycho throws the plague off a building as a distraction while he flees, nearly killing everyone in the surrounding area, though this is avoided due to N-Tek's interference.

Not long after this, Psycho is sent to Paris by John Dread to test out a powerful EMP weapon, and, after using it for smaller bursts to cause minor blackouts, Psycho and Dread plan to use the EMP to turn off all power in Paris for 1 hour, and, when the world sees the inevitable fatalities due to life support systems shutting down and possibly even airplanes crashing (Show's words, not mine), Dread will be able to effectively blackmail any major city he wishes.

Max successfully destroys the EMP before Psycho can activate it, leading Psycho to flee.

When Max goes on a vacation in the Alps, Psycho lures him into a trap, freezes him alive, then giddily tries to murder Max's two high school friends, Laura and Paul (Unaware that Max is a superspy, mind you) when they wander nearby his base, stating "What's a hunt without a kill"? Psycho even expresses annoyance that Dread calls him off from killing them in order to defeat Max when he breaks free of his icy prison.

Oh, and during all this, Psycho and Dread are planning on using the same freezing chemical that froze Max to wipe out an entire city in an icy blaze as a test run of it.

Next up, Psycho is employed by Dread to acquire one of N-Tek's high-tech spacecraft, the Phoenix, and to this end, Psycho damages the internal functions of N-Tek's largest satellite,the Sabre, leading Max to travel to space (Using the Phoenix as transport) to investigate.

Psycho then reveals he plans to steer the damaged satellite to crash into Del Ro Bay, Max's home city, to wipe it out, even loading it up with enough explosives to wipe out half a city for good measure. Overkill much, Psycho?

Throughout this mission, Psycho is partnered up with Vitriol, a fellow mercenary, whom Psycho regularly abuses and berates for his idiocy. Vitriol fires right back at him of course, but I just wanted to point out the kind of "partner" Psycho was.

Luckily, Max steers the satellite to instead crash into an ocean, while Psycho is...caught in the engine fire of the Phoenix....then sent drifting into space...then falls to Earth. And survives all this....somehow. Show itself lampshades how ridiculous is it, and ultimately Hand Wave(s) it away.

On his next mission, Psycho is sent to establish a mining operation on an island. Unfortunately, all the mining is causing the island's dormant volcano to begin becoming active, endangering the thousands of innocents residing on the island. Psycho, of course, doesn't care about this, and has the mining continue, fully knowing that the volcano will soon erupt and wipe out the thousands surrounding it.

Max shows up and manages to carve an escape tunnel for the building up magma, saving the nearby city and leaving Psycho to be caught in the lava flow....which he survives. With no explanation. >_>

Learning that Vitriol, Psycho's old partner, is being transported in a prison truck to a new location, Psycho is dispatched by Dread to either recover Vitriol, or silence him permanently. Psycho first selects the latter, trying to use a chemicaly-enhanced fungus to crush Vitriol to death, then allows Vitriol to flee with himself when this fails, brushing off his attempted murder of him as basically "I had a plan to save you!....maybe."

Afterwards, while Vitriol is sent to destroy the United Nations HQ, Psycho and his boss, Dread, lure Max into a trap, where they reveal they plan to dissect him to learn more about his nanotechnology....Psycho is particularly eager to get to the cutting, and prepares to begin the dissection with a saw blade. Yay.

Luckily, Max escapes, and, during his duel with Psycho, accidentally knocks over a container of that crushing fungus, which proceeds to latch onto Psycho and the surrounding building, seemingly ending him for good.

BUT WAIT, HE ISN'T DEAD! PSYCHO SURPRISE!.....shocker.

Surviving even THIS somehow, Psycho decides to strike out on his own while Dread is arrested by N-Tek, and he travels to the Amazon jungle for his latest scheme.

Psycho begins harvesting the sap of a tree that, when mixed with specific chemicals, becomes a lethal virus that kills anything organic (Plants, animals...people), that Psycho plans to use to blackmail any city he wants under threat of releasing the virus. This plan is foiled when Max destroys Psycho's supply of the virus, leading him to flee the scene.

Following this, Psycho somehow gets in contact with the incarcerated Dread, who convinces Psycho to free him. To this end, Psycho, along with the super criminal Bio-Constrictor, breaks Dread out of an underwater transport, attempting to drown Max and his team for good measure in the process.

Psycho then attempts to assist Dread in his plan to wipe out the city of Geneva and the gathered world leaders (You remember that, I'm sure), however this plan is thwarted by Max and his team, leading to Dread's death.

Not missing a beat following Dread's death, Psycho hijacks a cruise ship carrying a powerful navigation system, plans to use said navi system to arm nuclear warheads to become a world superpower, then tries to crash the entire cruise ship (Filled with people, obviously) into a populated island to cover his tracks.

This fails, and Psycho later tries a generic Federal Reserve robbing plot, abusing and nearly crushing to death his lackies, and then traps Max and his best friends in a metal cube before dropping it into the ocean, hoping for them to either suffocate or be crushed by the underwater pressure.

And...that was the last episode. Well, sort of. There was then a direct-to-DVD series of films that, though using the same characters, animation, and (mostly) voice actors, were actually non-canon from the series.

All, that is, except the first film. In it, Psycho teams up with Bio-Constrictor once more, using him to create a machine that will forcibly and painfully transform all of humanity into monstrous abominations that only they will be able to control, at which point, deciding he doesn't want to "share" the world, Psycho freaking blows Bio-Constrictor to bits, in one of the few instances of onscreen death in the series. Psycho then ends up killed off FOR REAL in the same film by being thrown into his own mutation chamber, which proceeds to rip him apart at the molecular level before exploding. That's what it takes to kill him, apparently....

Psycho then has one last appearance, where he shows up post-mortem in another of the films (Though this one is non-canon). Here, he reveals that he left a "parting gift" in case he died: A freaking doomsday device that he set to destroy the entire planet in the event that he was killed. This is thwarted, obviously, but still.

So....yeah. A mite odd. I suppose we won't count the last paragraph in this discussion, but DANG if it didn't solidify him as the worst character in and out-of universe.

Freudian Excuse or other redeeming features?

Erm....no. He's a gleefully psychopathic madman and Card-Carrying Villain whose only possible redeeming feature, his "loyalty" to Dread, is rather quickly shown to be nothing but a partnership out of pragmatism.

Heinousness?

Attempted mass murder isn't EXTREMELY common among Max's villains, with only Dread's operatives attempting bodycounts in the triple digits or more. And, even among other high-ranking Dread operatives, Psycho has the highest combined attempted bodycount in the show. True, this is mostly because he is the most recurring villain in the series, thus giving him more time for atrocities, but it doesn't change the fact that he outclasses everyone bar Dread to such a hilarious extent that it's...not hilarious, I guess.

Overall, so many attempted bodycounts in the quadruple digits I lost count, many moments of personal sadism and needless attempted murder, trying to transform all of humanity into monstrous creatures before killing hois thus far compliant partner out of nothing but ego, and has rightly earned hid spot as Max's Arch-Enemy.

Then there's his whole "blow up the whole Earth", which is non-canon, but it gives you an idea of the kind of guy we're dealing with.

And finally, despite how absolute horrid Psycho is, I don't think it disqualifies Dread for heinousness issues, as Psycho has WAY more screentime than he, and many of Psycho's crimes were on Dread's orders: He simply gleefully carried them out and enjoyed them WAY too much.

Final Verdict?

Keep the psycho....hehe, couldn't resist.

edited 5th Dec '16 10:30:56 PM by Ravok

Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
Sterok Since: Apr, 2012
#73057: Dec 5th 2016 at 10:36:44 PM

I recently finished reading a Shoujo manga, Life. It's a series about bullying, self-harm, twisted relationships, suicide, and all those other lovely high school issues. Currently it has a candidate listed, Manami Anzai. I can certainly understand why she could be classified as a complete monster, but I have my own doubts. I've checked around, and while it seems there was a brief discussion on her here, it wasn't much and just focused on her actions. So I think she needs a review.

Who is She?

Manami Anzai is a high school girl and an excellent example of a Bitch in Sheep's Clothing. On the surface she seems like a fairly good and nice person. She quickly makes friends with the protagonist Ayumu Shiiba, who had come to high school alone and was initially avoiding everyone else. Manami is loved by most of the girls in her class, is dating the popular boy Katsumi, and her father is a rich CEO who has a lot of influence in the school. She's also very good at acting innocent, becoming sweet and breaking into tears at the drop of a hat. She has everything she could ever want. But of course, things aren't that simple, and deep down she is very twisted.

What Does She Do?

Manami is not a particularly stable person. When Katsumi breaks up with her early on, she tries to commit suicide by throwing herself in front of a train and is saved by Ayumu. Ayumu promises to try to get her back with Katsumi, but he turns out to be quite the nasty guy, assaulting and tying up Ayumu. Ayumu is too scared to tell Manami this, and as a result Manami starts thinking Ayumu has feelings for Katsumi and is dating him behind her back. While this is happening, Manami and her posse start bullying Miki Hatori, another girl who Ayumu befriends, with Stock Shoujo Bullying Tactics such as stealing her shoes and knocking over her desk.

Eventually Ayumu starts sticking up for Miki, and between that and the after-mentioned Katsumi issue, Manami starts targeting Ayumu fiercely, starting by trying to force her to swallow needles. Manami and her posse constantly torment Ayumu every day at school physically and emotionally (telling her to kill herself, throwing her desk out the window, beating her in the bathroom, the usual) while turning most of the student body against her. Then Manami turns the school staff against Ayumu by blaming her for starting a fight and pretending Ayumu hurt her. The teachers, for the record, tend to side with Manami since Manami has more witnesses on her side and her father's influence, plus they just don't really want to do anything about any bullying even if they knew it was happening and would rather cover everything up to protect the school's reputation.

By this point she's stopped caring truly about Katsumi as well and is hanging out with some delinquents. She gets them to mug and beat Katsumi so that she can earn sympathy points with Katsumi, her friends, and the school faculty. Then she gets those delinquents to kidnap and rape Ayumu and Miki. The two manage to escape without the worst happening, so Manami sells her delinquent friend out to the police. She tries to get her father to expel Ayumu and Miki by pretending she was bullied, though that fails since no one but her father can believe that. One of Manami's posse, Hirose, overhears Manami gloating about all the pain she's causing others, and Manami threatens her to keep her silent, and eventually turns the bulk of the bullying towards her once Hirose openly questions Manami's innocence. This culminates in Hirose attempting suicide by jumping off the school roof.

By now Manami has gone full crazy, wanting to crush everyone who even thinks about defying her and declares that "making people suffer is ten thousand times better than sex". The other students have started to sense Manami is going way overboard, and even Manami's posse are reluctant to be near her (and most of them had joined in on the bullying earlier). In an attempt to win her innocence, she almost kills the still hospitalized Hirose and forces her to confess that she was the leader of the bullying and was forcing Manami to join in on it. One of the teachers attempts to do something about the bullying and confronts Manami, and she retaliates by getting her father to force that teacher to transfer schools. Manami blackmails another teacher into framing Miki (one of the top students) of cheating, which ends in that teacher's resignation.

After this the entire student body literally riots against Manami for causing so much trouble, lying to everyone, abusing her father's power, and creating a horrible atmosphere in the school where everyone feels uncomfortable. Desperate, Manami thinks Katsumi is trying to help her and wants to go back to him. She tries to stab Ayumu to death when Ayumu confronts her, then attacks Katsumi when he admits he only dated her in the first place because of his (abusive) dad. Fraught with despair now that everyone hates her, she tries to kill herself again, and once more is saved by Ayumu. Pretty long rap sheet for a high school girl.

Heinous Standard

She's the main antagonist of the manga, though not its only one. Katsumi is cruel and abuses Ayumu as much as he can, though he never goes as far as Manami does to multiple people. She's the one who hired the delinquents that attacked Ayumu and Miki, and while she didn't get her hands dirty there, she later admits she wishes Ayumu died there. Then there's the school faculty, whose main crime is sweeping all the bullying under the rug and doing nothing to help the victims. Meanwhile Manami manipulates others into doing her bidding, backstabs them when they displease her, attempts to coax several people to kill themselves, hires people to assault and kidnap others, has several attempted murders, and in general just takes pleasure in making other suffer. By the end everybody except her father hates her, and even he is forced to confront with how awful a person she is.

Redeeming Qualities/Excuses

This is where it gets complicated. You can't say the student culture caused her to bully people when she was the one creating that culture. Her father lets her get away with just about anything, but again, that's not an excuse when she knows the consequences of her actions. There was a running theme about how the school was completely awful and inept at handling the whole situation, since if they had done their job properly she wouldn't have had the chance to get out of hand. In essence, Manami was a failure and victim of the school system. This kind of rings true, but their inaction doesn't excuse her actions. She's mentally troubled given her two suicide attempts, but she isn't completely deluded. At the beginning she did seem to care for Ayumu and Katsumi, but she attacked them anyway when they displeased her, so not very redeeming. She is genuinely shocked when she learns Ayumu never wanted to date Katsumi like she believed, but she's more focused on Katsumi's betrayal and confession that he never cared for her. If it was only this, I think I could go either way on her CM status.

At the very end, she's confessing and admitting to all her crimes, even to her father, with no attempt to sugarcoat what she did. Some of this could be interpreted as regret, but nothing explicitly. But then she asks Ayumu to tell the police what happened and to charge and sue her. She claims it's so that she can live around people her father won't be manipulating, but still. Finally, she ends up in a rehabilitation center where she's thinking about what she wants to do with her life.

While there's nothing explicit about any regret, redemption, or honest penance about what she's done, she still ends up essentially turning herself in at the end. The door isn't shut on her one day becoming a better person, and there is a tragic element around what she became.

Verdict

Manami Anzai is a bully and all around awful person, and I wouldn't be shocked if many people here knew/know someone similar to her. But her few moments of care for others, her final admissions of guilt, and a possibly more hopeful ending than she might deserve all add up to someone who is not a complete monster. As such, I think she should be removed from the complete monster page.

erazor0707 The Unknown Unknown from The Infinitude of Meh Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
The Unknown Unknown
#73058: Dec 5th 2016 at 10:37:12 PM

...

Max Steel seemed tamer than I remembered.

[tup] Psycho.

A cruel, sick joke is still a joke, and sometimes all you can do is laugh.
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#73059: Dec 5th 2016 at 10:40:34 PM

Yes to Psycho, and I agree with Sterok in removing the Life character

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
G-Editor Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#73061: Dec 5th 2016 at 11:27:23 PM

[tup] Psycho

[tdown] Manami

edited 5th Dec '16 11:27:33 PM by G-Editor

Irene Since: Aug, 2012
#73062: Dec 6th 2016 at 12:44:50 AM

[tup] Psycho

[tdown] Shredder(he's somewhat close, but just falls below overall. The tone of the movies does not help that much either), Mamami

Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#73063: Dec 6th 2016 at 1:30:55 AM

[tup] Psycho. At this point, we should all stop looking into comic books and horror novels or what-have-you and just watch cartoons aimed for children from now on.

[tdown] Manami.

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#73064: Dec 6th 2016 at 2:07:32 AM

[tup] Shao, since that Armageddon thing I think is canon. You forgot his most heinous act: Poor logo
[tup] Psycho; cut Azumi.

edited 6th Dec '16 2:54:00 AM by ACW

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#73065: Dec 6th 2016 at 3:27:49 AM

I really hate to say this, but nobody in Skin Trade counts. The villains, repulsive human traffickers they may be, care about each other, barring The Mole, who's laughably out-heinoused.

Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#73066: Dec 6th 2016 at 4:10:03 AM

[up] Believe it or not, I saw this movie before; I could've told you that from the get-go. The only problem was that the movie was so boring that I forgot I even watched it. >__< All I remember was that Ron Perlman was in it—which was when the memories came flooding back when I saw that you listed him on the page.

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
MiraiYuji Since: Dec, 2015
#73067: Dec 6th 2016 at 4:23:44 AM

Here is the version with potholes (and minor revisions).

edited 6th Dec '16 5:04:26 AM by MiraiYuji

Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#73068: Dec 6th 2016 at 4:27:32 AM

[up] You can probably take out that he "crosses the line" and simply say he murders his mentor, etc. Also I think you mean "status," not "statut." Otherwise it looks great.

[down] With all the crap that he did, I wouldn't expect it to be. [lol]

edited 6th Dec '16 4:36:05 AM by Tyk5919

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
MiraiYuji Since: Dec, 2015
#73069: Dec 6th 2016 at 4:32:03 AM

[up]Thanks. It wasn't easy to do Zamasu's write-up.

EDIT: And ironically, the guy who outdoes the likes of Frieza and Majin Boo is a Supreme Kai. smile

edited 6th Dec '16 4:42:25 AM by MiraiYuji

Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#73070: Dec 6th 2016 at 5:52:58 AM

[tup]Shao Kahn and Psycho. Agreed on removing Manami.

Also, I've lost my internet access at home, so don't be surprised if I'm not active here for a couple days.

Why so serious?
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#73072: Dec 6th 2016 at 6:00:25 AM

Having just finished Westworld I am really looking forward to the eventual discussions on it.

Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
Camberf Since: Jan, 2012
#73073: Dec 6th 2016 at 6:15:30 AM

Didn't Zamasu also say that they had already destroyed many other planets too? Should that be mentioned in the write-up?

MiraiYuji Since: Dec, 2015
#73074: Dec 6th 2016 at 6:24:45 AM

[up]Indeed, but I didn't included it since it's off-screen villainy. Oh, and [tup]to Psycho.

edited 6th Dec '16 6:36:07 AM by MiraiYuji

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)

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