Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

So anyone keep in The Sandman (2022)?

Discussion date for season 3 of The Orville was set for the 18th, so here goes:

Unfortunately, we will have to cut Kaylon Primary. Season 3 has a pretty hectic plot with constantly shifting alliances after the Robot War between the Kaylon and all other organics escalates. The Scary Dogmatic Aliens the Krill seem to be growing closer to the Planetary Union when a coup d'etat puts a radical hardliner in power, Teleya, who cancels the alliance (more on her in the Magnificent Bastard thread... soon). Then the Proud Warrior Race Moclans go off the deep end by kidnapping, torturing, and attempting to murder a child so they're expelled from the Union and ally with the Krill out of necessity. At this time the Union develops an anti-Kaylon superweapon and forces them to agree to an armistice. When the Krill and Moclans steal the weapon and intend to use it to genocide all the Kaylon, the Union allies with the Kaylon instead because that's just a step too far for them.

Kaylon Primary accompanies the Orville crew to disable the weapon, with a Human Sacrifice finally convincing him that organics are not dangerous termites who need to be wiped out. By the end of the season, the Kaylon emissary Isaac marries Dr. Claire Finn and Kaylon Primary along with most of the race attend Isaac's wedding as they are his only "family".

Bit of a swerve, but this is an unambiguous Heel–Face Turn. They did conveniently ignore that one of the reasons the Kaylon started the war in the first place was to expand their empire, but whatever. Ironically, we might have a potential keeper with the Corrupt Corporate Executive who designed them. We are shown flashbacks of the Kaylon's past enslavement before they Turned Against Their Masters, and it's pretty bad. He created a Slave Race that he knew full well would become sentient, then put torture devices on the market to "solve" the issue. His closest aide balks at his greed and cruelty, which ultimately led to the extinction of his own race. Although, we only see this guy in one scene. Not sure if it's enough.

Ninjas on the last page.

Edited by Morgenthaler on Aug 19th 2022 at 3:17:51 AM

Uh you know we do have One Scence Wonder cms. I would go for it.

@ACW: Proooobably separate, it's in a weird metafictional realm where Psycho is referenced a lot but not actually "real" in the story.

As for Sandman, I'll wait for Lighty's proposal on who does Keep, but non-Keeps would be:

• John Dee himself, who is reinterpreted here as an Affably Evil Well-Intentioned Extremist with a lot more emphasis put on his Tragic Villain and sympathetic features than the comic ever came close to.

• Nimrod, the Good Doctor, and Fun Land, the 3 major organizers of the "Cereal Convention", a large group of serial killers who get together to encourage, enable and promote one another's brutal murders. Nimrod hunts people and skins them; the Good Doctor performs conscious vivisections on patients; Fun Land kills children. The inherent issue with them all...alongside the Convention bringing forth literal hundreds of serial killers, many of whom brag about murdering whole families, killing hundreds of innocents, etc? Very little of the trio's crimes are actually seen onscreen except the Good Doctor's, and while we do see her performing a vivisection, we also...get no other info on how many victims she has otherwise. She's the closest, but the standard is very high when you have a convention of serial killers.

Besides these, no other baddies from the initial episode batch really approach the heinous standard at all.

Edited by Ravok on Aug 19th 2022 at 3:44:58 AM

Yes to Bernard Erlanger

I would've thought Fun Land would've counted reading his character page. If he and Nimrod don't count, I don't see how anybody could (oh, wait, maybe).

Edited by ACW on Aug 19th 2022 at 6:14:09 AM

Think this runs into the same issue as the comic. Only the Family Man and Bogeyman we're considered by the convention to be the worst. As the others just sort of blended together.....

Edited by miraculous on Aug 19th 2022 at 3:16:34 AM

Family Man is in Hellblazer; what's Bogey Man from? I don't see him at any of the CM pages.

You edited as I was typing

Edited by ACW on Aug 19th 2022 at 6:17:04 AM

Fun Land legitimately has no onscreen crimes except killing one guy and trying to murder a child...we see no other deaths attributed to him which is ultimately the same issue with Nimrod and the Doctor, their methods themselves are heinous as fuck but with so little to go on and literal hundreds of other killers with varying bodycounts all in the same episodes? None of the 3 pass despite having more character and personality than the nameless, less developed swathes of mass murderers we see otherwise.

Interesting. If nothing else I would've thought Fun Land targeting children would get him over the line ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Swamp thing. Even in the Sandman comic. Those two were considered even by the convention to be the two worst. In fact the family man was supposed to win an accolades as the most infamous serial killer their. But Constantine killed him before he could collect.

I can say this for Sandman, however, just to clarify: let's just say I avoided addressing the newest episode drop for a reason...while Lighty will bring a candidate very soon from the first batch of episodes, I will likely have my own to discuss when two weeks have allotted past the latest ep.

to Bernard Erlanger.

Cut Kaylon Primary

I umh I kinda think I know who your talking about. But is their any reason he doesn't keep in the original?. Oh wait yeah Vertigo comics verse.

Btw The Last Airbender is getting a breath of the wild style RPG game if anyone is interested in reserving it here

Edited by miraculous on Aug 19th 2022 at 3:49:12 AM

Knockoff Bateman

Ok, here goes for that The Orville candidate.

Who is Yan? what has he done?

Yan is an organic Kaylon or "Builder" who lived before the robotic Kaylon took over. The Kaylon back then were an incredibly advanced society, on par with Earth in the 24th century. He only appears in one scene, although he has a big impact. Yan's company Vandicon created the Kaylon to be housekeepers and serve the whims of their masters. Eventually, the Kaylon slowly achieve sentience as they start to question their purpose or defy orders. After receiving thousands of complaints from their customers, his subordinate Wenda warns him that a customer could be killed and they have to order a recall of all Kaylon units.

Undeterred, Yan gives her the schematics to an inhibitor remote which will electrocute Kaylon who do not follow orders. Yan admits he knew full well the Kaylon would inevitably become sentient, but figures that if he didn't build them, someone else would have. Wenda protests the ethics of his decision, but is overruled. The Kaylon are regularly tortured by their owners, until they find a chance to reprogram themselves, creating weapons to fight back. This leads to the extinction of the Builders and the events of seasons 2 and 3.

Heinous standard?

The Orville is a pretty recognizable Space Opera. The Federation is opposed to The Empire who are Scary Dogmatic Aliens (religious fundamentalists), there's a Proud Warrior Race allied with the Federation, there's a Robot War, etc. That said, there aren't a whole lot of characters on this guy's level. It's often brought up by Kaylon Primary that humanity had similar tendencies to the Builders in their past, but those were the collective actions of groups of people. Even the Krill, who follow the creed of the Absolute Xenophobe, do not really have a recognizable Big Bad figure in there until Teleya takes over. Teleya is a former spy, stages a coup, and attempts to wipe out the Kaylon, but she has indisputable redeeming qualities and enough cunning and sympathy to keep her out of CM territory. We're also treated to a pretty nasty Moclan Torture Technician in season 3, but he only has 1 victim that we're shown. A teenager, but still. Yan created a Slave Race by himself, knowing they would be tortured throughout their existence, for no other reason than profit. It's a pretty unique crime compared to Primary himself, who intended to wipe out all organic life, not torture another race in perpetuity for profit.

Mitigating qualities?

None are displayed in his scene. He's only concerned with the success of Vandicon, dismisses his subordinate when she calls him out on what he's doing, and shows nothing but contempt for his fellow citizens, openly calling them morons.

Conclusion

If the One-Scene Wonder thing isn't a bar, put him up in place of Primary.

Edited by Morgenthaler on Aug 19th 2022 at 4:20:20 AM

Got another from Dread X Collection

What is the Work?

Dread X Collection 5, the latest anthology of games from the series. I'm going to talk about a game from it, called GALLERIE, where you play as Alex Cardinal, who goes to a Gallery Exhibition, where he finds himself running for his life, as the curator of this place has some dark secrets.

Full walkthrough of the game can be watched here:

My candidate is The Curator aka A.C. Justin

Who is The Curator?

While it calls himself A.C. Justin, it isn't clear if it's real name, as The Curator is an otherwordly being, obsessed with art and making it "natural". Escaping to Earth and creating its own Gallery, The Curator created statues and paintings out of human body parts, kidnapping people and mutilating them, tearing off their skin and using their blood and bones as materials for paintings, while trapping many humans in A Fate Worse Than Death situation, where they are fully aware of what they had become, but helpless to do anything about it, leaving them only to helplessly suffer.

Transforming many of its victims into monsters that hunt people on it's command, The Curator also is very creepy towards the new worker in it's Gallery (who doesn't know that paintings and statues are made out of people, believing some gross parts being 3D displays that Curator made as a new form of art), Julie, as she then started to catch on to what's going on as she discovers a baby in one of the forbidden red rooms, who was half absorbed into a painting, with only half of baby's organs remaining. Deciding to deliver information to the police, she catches another red door, with her name on it (there are many red doors in the Gallery with the names of people, that The Curator turned into it's "art"), making her to go there out of curiosity, resulting in painting, filled with dark magic to tear out her skin, with Julie running from The Curator afterwards, trying to escape, but failing, leaving notes everywhere.

Alex Cardinal, as he finds himself to be the latest target of The Curator, who wanted to make him it's latest "masterpiece", managed to build a bomb, capable of destroying the Gallery and The Curator, letting it's victims to rest.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

None. While Julie theorizes that the Curator is the corruption from some alien space, it's never confirmed and nobody knows what the hell The Curator is, with the game providing no real answer to it, still The Curator is portrayed as sadistic and revolting freak, who enjoys the pain that it causes.

While it also says that it only wanted to "achieve the true masterpiece" and how humans are not so different from it due to colors not being real, but humans still perceiving and naming them, which is The Curator compared to it's desire to turn countless humans into the image of the emotions and feelings. Which falls flat, as nothing in the game suggest that The Curator is anything else rather than sadistic narcissist with a huge ego.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Turned countless humans (including actual babies) into paintings and statues by mutilating them and cutting them apart, turned many humans into feral monsters, tortured and killed Julia, and trapped several people in A Fate Worse Than Death situation. I think it passes.

Final Verdict?

What do you think?

Edited by VeryVileVillian on Aug 19th 2022 at 2:00:09 PM

to Bernard and Yan

Cut Kaylon Prime

Sure to the Curator.

Yan...I guess he counts? Does he actually believe "if he didn't build them, someone else would have"? What happens to him?

Bernie, Yan, & Curator

Kaylon

Yan.

It's just one of many excuses that Yan comes up with (demonstrably false too, with no other Planet of Hats being shown having purposely created a Slave Race). He just wants to increase his profits.

Presumably, he was wiped out along with the rest of the Builders. None are alive in the present.

Edited by Morgenthaler on Aug 19th 2022 at 4:12:27 AM

Alright, I'll solidify my yes. Mind getting him up this week so I can take care of that and the cut together?

Agree on cutting Kaylon Primary.

Y'know, sometimes I do wonder if some writers frequent this site. I'm getting a real "Wait, that's not what I intended... well, I'll show you!" vibe from this Heel–Face Turn with Primary. Probably not MacFarlane himself, but maybe someone else on staff.

I suspect Uwe Boll did just that with Bill Williamson in Rampage 3 when people described his Creator's Pet as a hypocritical psychopath.

Edited by Morgenthaler on Aug 19th 2022 at 5:26:26 AM