During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Professor Gigachad
For a second I was a bit confused as I thought you were proposing someone from the film and was like "how was someone missed from this," anyway ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Evar, likewise great find.
Ultimate Moral Compass
Evar. Ah, Treasure Planet. The first movie I ever saw in the theater... and the first one I ever fell asleep to.
Yes to Evar
Charles Manson, Veffir and Evar.
Based on the EP, to Evar.
Wondering how many people also saw Treasure Planet at the beginning of the EP and actually thought Scroop was getting re-litigated. Haha.
Also, The Hitman's… is a weird name for the tree when we could just go with Hitman's Bodyguard instead.
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Jul 21st 2021 at 11:43:43 AM
Professor Gigachad
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I did for a sec.
A 20th Century Boy
Having just rewatched a movie that has been discussed in the past, I would to propose a potential candidate I felt was preciously overlooked and is worth taking a look af.
What is the Work?
Paprika, the Mind Screwy final film by the late Satoshi Kon, revolves around a device called the DC Mini that its user to view and enter dreams. A head scientist for the DC Mini research team, Atsuko Chiba, secretly uses the device to treat psychotherapy patients using a dream world alter ego named Paprika. When DC Mini prototypes are stolen and used to wreak havoc on the real world, Chiba's team, alongside her patient Detective Toshimi Konakawa, must track down the thieves behind it and foil their plans before reality falls apart. While the Big Bad of this movie has been discussed and approved before, I wanted to take a look at his top lackey.
Who is Osanai and what has he done?
Doctor Morio Osanai initially seems to be an unassuming member for the research team and ally of the heroes. In reality, he is an accomplice and lackey for the Big Bad Chairman Sejiro Inui. Osanai is also a Stalker with a Crush towards Chiba. Revealing his true nature alongside Inui when Paprika confronts the latter in the dream world, Osanai chases Paprika throughout the dream world before capturing her and bringing her to his sanctuary: a room with a butterfly collection displayed across every wall. Osanai then has Paprika, who is in a butterfly-like form, pinned down to a table. Taking pleasure in having captured the object of his desires, Osanai carresses Paprika across her legs, crotch and chest areas as he waxes poetic about the dream machine's power and lashes out at Paprika for calling him out (at one point physically hitting her).
After Konakawa has a personal epiphany in the dream world, he arrives at a movie screen showing Osanai's lair to find Paprika screaming as he begins to force himself onto her. In a scene both surreal and disturbing, Osanai puts his hand to her crotch and into her body and makes his way upwards as she writhes and screams in terror. He then peels open Paprika's skin to reveal Chiba's nude and unconscious body. As he lifts his hand to her cheek with a lecherous expression on his face, Inui suddenly attempts to take control over his body and turns his hand into a mass of tree branch like tentacles for acting outside of his orders. As the two struggle for control, Konakawa breaks through the theater screen and into the sanctuary to rescue Chiba/Paprika. Despite Inui's attempts to restrain Osanai, Osanai breaks free by transforming into a mass of butterflys and chasing after Konakowa.
The two fight each other in various locations from Konakowa's recurring dreams before ending up at Konakowa's murder victim nightmare (a subconcious representation of Konakowa's resentment of his late moviemaker friend and subsequent guilt over his feelings). With Konakowa seemingly paralyzed in fear of his nightmare, Osanai gloats "How's that for traumatic?" with a smirk and starts making his escape. However, Konakowa, empowered by the words of his friend and his newfound resolve to finish his nightmare, manages to shoot Osanai before he can flee, causing him to bleed out and die in the real world.
Does he have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
When Elfen Lied Fan 90 did his effortpost on Chairman Inui, he mentioned that Osanai did not qualify because his love for Chiba is genuine. However, considering how his "love" entails literally pinning Paprika/Chiba down like a collected butterfly before forcing himself onto her and clearly intending to rape her....I do not consider this genuine love at all. Any love Osanai shows for Chiba is clearly depicted as nothing more than selfish possessiveness and obsession towards her.
As for Freudian Excuses or sympathetic motives, while he is heavily implied to have prostituted himself to Inui to get his hands on the DC Mini, it is treated less as a mitigating factor and more as him being willing to do anything to acquire the device for his own selfish ends.
When Paprika is held captive and calls him out for betraying his fellow research team member Himuro and leaving him to become an Empty Shell and for selling his body to Inui, he freaks down and tells her to stop talking. While this could be interpreted as guilt or remorse for his actions, it could just as well be interpreted as him reacting out of insult to his pride and ego. His subsequent comment about Paprika being in his sanctuary and her doing as he says also implies that he felt insulted by Paprika refusing to stay quiet or submit to him.
Does he meet the Heinousness Standard?
This is where things get somewhat tricky: Inui's plan to warp reality to achieve godhood while mind-raping and killing anyone in his way sets a rather high heinous standard for the film. With that said, I feel that there are points in favor of Osanai qualifying: For one, Inui, as the Chairman of the research institute, has by far the most resources out of everybody in the film. In contrast, Osanai is an average researcher for the same insitute. Subsequently, he is on a lower playing field in regards to resources compared to Inui. Additionally, Osanai is also fully complicit in Inui's plot, with all the casualties it entails, and shows no hesitation or remorse in what he does. Finally, what I believe to be the decisive factor is Osanai's molestation and Attempted Rape of Chiba. Out of all the characters in the film, no other character is a rapist or sexual predator. Based on his comparatively low resource level, complicity in the central antagonist's plan, and his attempted rape, I believe that Osanai manages to carve out his own niche and stand out as heinous with what he has.
Final Verdict?
Your call.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Here:
- Cars 2: Sir Miles Axlerod and Professor "Z" Zündapp are a pair of "lemon" cars who want power and to hurt all other cars simply because they were laughed at for being older models. After they buy up one of the world's largest oil reserves, Professor Z develops a weaponized camera that causes the alternative fuel Allinol to explode and decompose, and Axlerod orchestrates him to use it on the racers of the Grand World Prix, severely damaging the cars, to paint alternative fuels as dangerous and drive the world back to oil, which will enrich the villainous duo. Z personally murders two spies, crushing one and torturing then exploding the other, on Axlerod's orders before the two try to murder the last user of Allinol, Lightning McQueen, planning to make his best friend Tow Mater watch before killing him as well. When their weaponized camera fails, the two plant a bomb on Mater and try to detonate it in a pit stop, uncaring that it is filled with dozens of other cars, and even when their plan fails, Z spitefully activates a timer on the bomb to destroy whoever he can.
Yes to Veffir Voon Iyax and Evar.
Unsure about Maestro.
Osanai...seems like a mere cog in the plan, and I'm not sure if an Attempted Rape is enough to push him over.
Edited by ACW on Jul 22nd 2021 at 5:24:13 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Goku Black
Vefir and Evar
Vefir and Evar.
On Barty Crouch Jr, I did not suggest putting his cruel imprisonment of Moody in his write up to bulk it up - I genuinely believe it's a notable omission and I was surprised when the EP glossed over it.
When we finally see the real Moody in the film he is trapped in an enchanted trunk, which we see has him living down a deep shaft, the entrance being the only visible source of light, his surroundings cramped, him dressed in only his undergarments and not even a pillow or bed to sleep on. He was trapped here for practically a year.
Looking at the write up proper, I can see there isn't really a good place to put this. I shan't lose sleep over it, but I do not want my intentions to be misread.
I do agree putting the spider torture in is pushing it a bit.
The Draftsman of Doom
Not sure on Osanai.
Feels good, don't it?
Veffir and Evar.
Abstain on Osanai. He's terrible, but I am also getting cog in the machine vibs from him.
Showtime!
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
to Osanai. He doesn't have enough independent actions to breach the standard himself
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Someone re-added Zurgo to the Ratchet and Clank page: "Added Stuart Zurgo who was approved in the cleanup"...
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Goku Black
That's weird. It's one of their only edits here. As in three edits in total....
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Vefir and Evar
to Osanai
Edited by G-Editor on Jul 22nd 2021 at 11:36:32 AM
Evar
Osanai
Edited by nwotyzal on Jul 22nd 2021 at 8:34:00 AM
The Draftsman of Doom
Can I cut the entry?
- Full Frontal Assault: Stuart Zurgo has become far worse since his optional appearance in Going Commando. Becoming disillusioned with heroes due to Qwark's flaws, Stuart decided to teach him and the galaxy that forgave him a lesson, starting by shutting down the defense centers of three planets, including his home planet Ebaro, allowing them to be invaded by marauders and threatening to do the same to the entire Polaris Galaxy if anyone but the Q-Force tries to help. Later stealing the Galactic Weather Grid so he can throw Polaris into chaos with weather attacks, he disguises himself as Qwark to frame him for the destruction. Plunging Ebaro into the Ice Age, Zurgo attempts to kill Ratchet, Clank, and Qwark when they arrive to stop him.
Edit: Decided to cut the entry, as it was not approved.
Edited by SkyCat32 on Jul 22nd 2021 at 11:55:17 AM
Feels good, don't it?
to Evar and Vefir
to Onsanai
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
to Veffir and Evar.
Edited by DrScavenge27 on Jul 22nd 2021 at 10:19:24 AM
Shin Megami Tensei IV
Admiral Evar.
Vefir.
Yes for Evar. Great find!