During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
I ain't the poster for either but I'm gonna guess yes, given they've got a lot of individuality to their crimes, despite being a partnership. It's like Drake and Riot or Katana and Blake.
Got one to follow up on Lighty's earlier post from Are You Afraid of the Dark, too. From "Tale of the Whispering Walls," we have Master Raymond.
Who is Raymond? What has he done?
Owner of a creepy inn in the middle of nowhere, Raymond is an eccentric creep who has a hobby of luring the lost to his inn every full moon on a leap year during the night of February 29th. Actually an evil sorcerer who owns a seemingly-abandoned mansion even further up the road, Raymond tricks anyone who comes to his inn into ending up at the mansion, where he proceeds to capture their very souls after tormenting them.
Such is the fate of the innocent babysitter Louise, prompting her two charges—a young brother and sister—to go after her. We learn Raymond has kept the souls of numerous innocent people trapped within the walls of his mansion for years, feeding off their life energy to keep himself and the mansion alive forever. Raymond is all but set to steal Louise's soul too, and as an extra Kick the Dog decides to capture the young sister as well, only letting the boy go to torment him with his own failure to save them.
One of the spirits ends up rebelling against Raymond, appalled he would take an innocent child's soul, and Raymond is seemingly blown away, but as the tale concludes the house still stands and people continue to vanish to this day...
Any mitigating factors?
No, I don't think so. Raymond's actor is really, really campy, but the episode plays him, his threat and the horror of what he's been doing to the souls of numerous innocent people for many, many years fully seriously.
Conclusion?
Keeper.
And keep
Ultimate Moral Compass
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Ludlow and Raymond
To both the Jurassic Park and Are you afraid of the dark duos
Yes to Peter, Raymond, Dodgdon, and Ludlow.
On the Jurassic Park topic, I've personally grown to despise the idea of a dinosaurs even possibly wiping out entire towns and especially the "dinosaur apocalypse" the next movie seems to hint at. They are just animals, you can just shoot them. The San Diego cops from the Lost World could have brought down the T-rex with concentrated small arms fire if they wanted to. I just understand the franchise's need to try and frame these normal animals as kaiju or something.
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
The wifi here sucks
Both AYAOTD characters and both Jurassic characters
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
But Lore, how else would you create cheap drama?
Edited by nwotyzal on Mar 17th 2021 at 10:04:40 AM
Barb / Temporary Kylo
Wanted to drop in really quick......
to the Jurrasic park guys and Late Hell yes to Jerry Willis and Show! Flagg. Sure to Chackal.....Legitmately completely forgot he existed, but, eh, technicalities.
.....Ehhh On Lord vicious, I'm sort of leaning no personally. 43 did talk to me about this, it kinda sounds like one of those Thailog cases, where they do have some personal vileness to them...but they could do way worse then they do and have guys with less who do way worse.
Don't expect to sway alot though and it seems there are good arguments to keep him.
Edited by Snoketrope on Mar 17th 2021 at 10:38:02 AM
The First man
Peter Ludlow.
Messenger from another dimension.
Yes to both Jurrasic Park candidates.
I must say, it's interesting as soon as I wake up in the morning of my time and I see two villains you wouldn't expect being voted up.
Welcome to the world of greatest media!
to Dodgson and Ludlow. About time the series got a CM.
to the two Jurassic Park villains and the two AYAOTD villains
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Agree with .
Am I missing anything?
- Heydrich (DrUnknown)
- Cain (Jackie)
- Ushitora (Lighty)
- Barago expansion (Lighty)
- Pablo Reyes (Ravok)
- Purple Man (Ravok)
- Jane (Scraggle)
- Jurassic Park: Redemption comic:
- Dodgson (Lighty)
- Ludlow (Ravok)
- Are You Afraid of the Dark?:
- Kirlian (Lighty)
- Master Raymond (Scraggle)
- Cyber Blue:
- Gaza (Scraggle)
- Rozalie (43110)
- Herc-Xena verse: Xena=Ming T'ien (Scraggle)
Edited by ACW on Mar 18th 2021 at 5:20:15 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Goku Black
Ludlow and Raymond (I remember that episode)
On a side note, there is a keeper who was approved a long time ago that I think we should discuss again.
What's the work?
Oliver Twist is a novel by Charles Dickens published from 1837 til 1839. It tells the story of Oliver Twist and his struggle to survive in the poverty-ridden slums of England. I don't think it needs much introduction because all of you have at least heard about it.
Who is Bill Sikes? What has he done?
This is his write-up:
Why I think we should discuss him again?
I admit that I read this book a long time ago and I don't remember much because I never found it particularly interesting. However, from what I remember and reading Bill's write-up here, the only crime that crosses the baseline standard is his murder of Nancy. It is brutal becuse Sikes beats her to death with a club but it's still only one murder and none of his other actions crosses the baseline standard. He is the most heinous character in the book but the main reason for this is because he commits the only murder in the entire book.
Another reason why I bring him up is because after the murder of Nancy, there is some implication that Bill feels guilt about what he did. The reason why he killed her in the first place is because Fagin has lied to him that Nancy has betrayed him and reveals information about his criminal activities. After hearing this, Bill is angry and kills his girlfriend and is on the run. While he is on the run, he gets visions of Nancy's dead eyes which disturb him. During his flight from London he becomes paranoid and feels that everyone is watching him suspiciously (even though this part could be interpreted as him being afraid of being caught). I don't remeber the exact details because I have read this book a long time ago but I searched through the Internet and there are three separate sources that claim that Bill feels some guilt about Nancy's murder. Here are the links:
https://www.sparknotes.com/lit/oliver/section10/page/2/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_Twist
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Sikes
If you want, you can go to these sources and search for the word "guilt". You will find it in all three of them.
Conclusion
I personally think that we should cut Bill because he commits only one murder and he later seems to feel guilt about it. However, if someone who is more familiar with the book than me has arguments for keeping him, I am willing to listen to them.
Messenger from another dimension.
I am not familliar with the book but if this is true, Sikes sounds like an easy cut.
Welcome to the world of greatest media!
Well, here's a Minecraft candidate.
What's the Work
The Gameknight 999 Series is a unofficial graphic novel series for Minecraft. The titular player gets stuck in the world of Minecraft and finds out the mobs have consciousness. He has to help some villagers fight our candidate, who has an army of hostile mobs.
Who is Herobrine and what has he done?
Herobrine (because who else could it be?) is the Big Bad.
He is an artificial intelligence created by Entity303, and he made the mobs conscious as soon as he entered the game. His original desire was to help the villagers, but they ultimately attacked him, making Herobrine vengeful. He created four monster kings and one monster queen so he can complete his goal, but one of them (Vo-Lok the Zombie King) is killed by Gameknight. Herobrine makes the Creepers suicidal bombers and threatens to kill Oxus the Creeper King when he objects. However, Gameknight later convinced Oxus to abandon Herobrine.
After Elebus and Malacoda (Enderman and Ghast kings respectively) were killed, Herobrine creates another zombie king, Xa-Tul, and then tortures him once he's defeated by Gameknight. Herobrine then tried to make Shaikulud the Spider Queen join forces with the anti-virus Orcale, but failed once Shaikulud is shot to death and Herobrine is chased off by wolves. Herobrine creates four more monster kings, but gets trapped in a goddamn pig body.
Later thrown into the Void, Herobrine possesses the Ender Dragon, attacking the Overworld, wanting to cut his server from another one, killing everyone in the other one, but he' stopped. Herobrine possesses Gameknight's friend Herder so Gameknight won't attack him. Herobrine also planned to kill all humanity as revenge. Gameknight and his dad trap Herobrine in a hard disk, which is then destroyed by the dad, killing Herobrine forever.
Does he have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
His "freudian excuse" is honestly far from justifying in any way. This also proves that he has a clear moral agency as he wanted to help.
Heinous Standard
Trying to commit genocide is certainly heinous enough.
Verdict
A to this guy.
Messenger from another dimension.
Very tentative yes to Herobrine. That said, not sure if Minecraft can have a CM.
Welcome to the world of greatest media!
Minecraft already has fan-fics with CM's in them, and Gameknight999 itself is a fan-fic, so yes it can.
to Herobrine
to Chuckle Teeth, Herobrin, Raymond, Jurassic Park duo and Jane.
to Master Raymond and Herobrine.
Yes to Ludlow are the two getting separate write ups or one combined write up?
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon