Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
Ultimate Moral Compass
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
King
Hey, here's another game candidate. Big thanks to 43 for reminding me of this one, I've been putting this one off for months.
What’s the Work?
Assassin Blue is an old freeware action platformer from 2009 created by Greg Lobanov, who would go on to make Wandersong.
Set in a world where war runs rampant, an assassin codenamed Blue, formerly a soldier who lost his family at a young age, works with his client known as "Boss" to kill leaders who continue to make the world a terrible place. To Blue, each life he takes brings the war closer to ending. But Blue soon finds that nothing is as it really seems, especially when another assassin of Boss's named Red gets involved.
Who is He?
"Boss" is the shadowy dictator and handler of Blue and Red, using their skills of murder to further increase his power.
What has he done?
Having Blue and Red assassinate numerous politicians within various small counties, along with their replacements, plus any civilian who stands in their way, Boss manipulates the heroic Blue into serving him under the assumption he's ending the war between the nations with every life he takes, as he claims he'll stop the war the more territory he claims. Boss even orders the two to Leave No Witnesses.
Sending Blue and Red out to assassinate a senator, leading to Blue killing his bodyguard and Red doing the deed himself. But the senator didn't come alone; he brought his wife and kid with him, the family hiding from anyone trying to kill them. Red goes on to murder the wife and kid... which is what Boss hoped would happen. As Boss tells them, Leave No Witnesses, even if it means a woman and a child; anybody who sees them has to die.
Boss then sends Blue out to rid his country of a revolutionary leader attempting to overthrow him in order to put a stop to his corrupt rulership. But unbeknownst to Blue, since he refused to kill the senator's innocent family, Boss sends Red out to kill him, having found his failure in the previous mission to be "very, very troubling." But once it turns out that the leader was actually just a random innocent, Blue once again refuses to kill him, instead letting him live. Since this whole thing was a test by Boss to see where Blue's loyalty lies, Boss finally orders Red to kill him, feeling he's too dangerous to leave alone if he's not cooperating with him.
But despite everything, Blue, now betraying Boss, is able to break into Boss's castle and repeatedly stab him to death, putting an end to his reign of terror.
Redeeming Qualities?
At the end of the day, no. Boss, moments before his death, tells Blue that he only wanted to expand his country's territory "for the good of the people." But Blue doesn't buy it, telling him that he's wasted countless lives "for nobody but yourself."
Considering he has Blue and Red kill a defenseless woman and child, then has Blue try to kill an innocent dude just to test his trust in him, Boss is really just a sociopath who only values people as tools at his disposal, only having those who could pose a threat to his power killed. Boss even tells Blue that, as an assassin, he was never meant to create peace.
Heinousness?
Boss has had Blue and Red assassinate thousands of innocents, children included, all for the sake of power. He easily passes the heinous standard.
Red, sadly, doesn't count. Despite being okay with murdering a child for the sake of Boss, Red's revealed to care for his deceased family, especially his long lost brother (who turns out to be Blue). He also faces his death with way more dignity than Boss (though Blue instead just cuts his hand off and leaves him be).
Conclusion
Keeper
Edited by therealjackieboy on Apr 26th 2023 at 3:54:36 AM
"No running in the halls!"
Goku Black
Boss.
The Draftsman of Doom
Sure to the king.
Yes to Boss.
I don't mean to be rude, but, can we not ignore effortposts to discuss incarnation related schtus, please?
Edited by SkyCat32 on Apr 26th 2023 at 5:51:41 AM
Rawr.
King, Boss
The Ultimate Lifeform
to the King and the Boss.
Not the Eye
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yes to Boss.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Yes to the King and yes to the Boss. Good work, that takes me back.
IIRC though Red isn't killed, Blue cuts his hand off and promises to take his other if he goes back to assassination.
Edited by 43110 on Apr 26th 2023 at 6:50:06 AM
to King and Boss. Alright folks, now it is time for a new CM proposal. This candidate was on my mind for several years, but I was kinda scared of making the EP because the candidate MIGHT be a bit controversial. But after some time thinking about it, and discussing it with Ravok briefly, I finally decided to man up and make the EP. And with that out of the way, here goes nothing:
What's the Work?:
LEGO City Undercover is a Lego game released in 2013 for the Wii U, and later for other consoles in 2017, based on the Lego City theme, with a prequel game, Lego City Undercover: The Chase Begins being released alongside the original game during the game's Wii U release. The game stars Lego City P.D. officer, Chase McCain, as he returns to Lego City after being initially reassigned to Brick County for accidentally revealing his love interest, Natalia's secret witness identify to Rex Fury, a very dangerous and not so intelligent criminal, to help the Lego City P.D. recapture Rex, who had managed to escape from prisoners. However, it soon turns out that Rex is now following orders from a much more sinister mastermind, who is none other than: Forrest Blackwell.
Who is Forrest Blackwell? What does he do?
Forrest Blackwell is a wealthy multi billionaire businessman and is a very popular individual in Lego City. One day, Blackwell decided to build himself a "utopia", which consisted of an apartment complex and a shopping mall, in Bluebell National Park, spending billions to connect the park to the uptown via Blackwell Bridge, believing that this "utopia" will serve as a monument to his genius. However, someone would then to discover a rare squirrel living in the park. Since the building of the apartment complex would cause a poisonous fallout that would've killed off the wildlife living at the park, City Hall decides to shut down the project. In an attempt to reassure that his "utopia" is built, Blackwell hires a criminal named, Carl Walnuts, to destroy Bluebell Woods in order to get his Apartment complex approved, offering him a Blackwell mech in return. Fortunately, Chase McCain defeats and arrests Walnuts, foiling Blackwell's plans. In response to the whole scandal, Blackwell vowed to never build anything again. Or so he claims.
In reality, Blackwell planned to build his "utopia" on the moon instead, all the while planning to get revenge on Lego City out of petty spite for rejecting his "paradise", accusing them of being ungrateful. 2 years later, Blackwell began to put his plans into action, hiring Rex Fury to have him order Vinnie Pappalardo, a crime boss in Lego City, pull a series of robberies needed for his plans. Blackwell also has Rex kidnap Professor Henrik Kowalski, Natalia's father, to force him to build a Phased Polarity Exclusion Field that Blackwell needs for his "utopia", falsely claiming it will help society. When Kowalski found out about Blackwell's true intentions, he refuses to tell him the password for the device. How, does Blackwell respond to this? By kidnapping his daughter and threatening to kill her if he doesn't give him the password. Kowalski reluctantly does, but Blackwell refuses to let Natalia go, deciding to keep her hostage instead.
Fortunately, Chase discovers that Blackwell is the mastermind and manages to rescue Kowalski before the two invade Blackwell's mansion to rescue Natalia. During this, Blackwell arranges for a press conference to be held in front of Blackwell Tower with nearly all of Lego City attending, claiming he has news that will "change Lego City forever." While they didn't find Natalia, they DID find out about Blackwell's plans to build his "utopia" on the moon with the help of Kowalski's device. Chase wonders on how Blackwell is gonna get to the moon since he can't hide a rocket in the middle of the city. Only to realize that Blackwell Tower IS the rocket, and also horrifyingly realizes that Blackwell intends to use the flames from the rocket taking off to burn everything and everyone in Lego City to ash as his means of revenge towards the city, which is why he lured everyone to his tower to begin with. Luckily, Chase and his friends are able evacuate everyone from the tower and create a shield around the rocket to save the city from destruction. However, the rocket still manages to take off to the moon, with Natalia on board as a hostage.
Chase then proceeds to head to the moon to stop Blackwell and Rex for good and save Natalia, successfully managing to set Blackwell's rocket to take them back to earth. Blackwell is enraged by this, and claims that Lego City is a society of blinkered fools that rejected his "utopia", but Chase retorts that he used to be a good man until he decided to become a spiteful bastard all because of his bruised ego from his apartment complex being shut down due to it endangering the wildlife. Blackwell then decides to order Rex to murder Chase with a robot T-Rex, all the while forcing Natalia to watch, though Chase is able to defeat Rex and destroy the mech. An enraged Blackwell decides to fire and betray Rex before proceeding to separate the command module from the rest of the rocket before setting the latter to self destruct in an attempt to kill both Chase and Rex. They both managed to survive the blast, though Rex decides to immediately fight Chase once again. Blackwell is quick to discover their survival, and then proceeds to deliver quite a chilling speech for a Lego game:
Blackwell's gloating is cut short however when one of his men proceeds to tell him the parachutes of the command module won't open and none of them can't reach the emergency release lever. In response, Blackwell decides to immediately flee to the escape pod, all the while leaving everyone on board the command module to die. Chase is ultimately able to defeat Rex once again as Blackwell attempts to flee, with the latter declaring he will have revenge against Chase for ruining his plans. Only for his escape pod to be immediately be hit by a cow, sending the mad multi billionaire into deep space, leaving his fate unknown.
Heinous Standard:
Blackwell easily clears this, as all of the other villains have standard villainy, including Rex Fury himself whose worst crime is attempting to kill Vinnie by having him freeze to death. Blackwell, on the other hand, attempts to commit genocide on a entire city out of petty spite, and once attempted to destroy bluebell woods in an attempt to get his apartment complex built with absolutely zero care to the wildlife. So yeah, no issue here.
Migrating Qualities?:
This is a Lego game, so naturally there is a lot of humorous moments throughout the game with many of villains being played for laughs or given some form of redeeming quality. Rex Fury has plenty of humorous moments under his belt, and is shown to not be very smart, including when he apparently thought that a freaking LAWNMOWER was a proper choice for a escape vehicle and choosing to torture Kowalski with a feather. Chan Chaung is a Bad Boss who likes to scream ALOT, but he not really portrayed in a serious light at all. And Vinnie is easily the least evil of the villains, being genuinely Affably Evil, a much better boss than Blackwell, Rex, and Chan combined, and is shown to love his family, dressing as a clown for his son's birthday party.
And then there's Blackwell. Sure, he has a few jokes here and there, such as calling computers "compupers", but once he is revealed to be the game's true villain, any humor around him is kept to a minimum, with him being portrayed as a mostly pretty serious villain, especially when compared to everyone else in the game. His most heinous act of destroy Lego City via rocket flames is also portrayed in a serious light, and is not downplayed for the sake of laughs in the slightest. The game also makes it perfectly clear that his intention is to kill everyone in Lego City as he purposely lured everyone to the tower under the false pretenses of a press conference, and the heroes immediately begin a evacuation once Chase finds out about Blackwell's plans. Blackwell even outright mentions that he plans to destroy Lego City while also making Natalia watch, which is also not played for laughs. He also claims that he would never hurt a lady. And yet is perfectly fine with threatening said lady, taking her hostage, and later on, leaving her to die, so that claim falls flat. As for his "Freudian Excuse", he's pretty pissed off because Lego City rejected his "utopia", but the only reason they rejected it was because his project could potentially harm the wild life, which he doesn't care for at all, and while he claims that his "utopia" is a self contained world that cater to everyone's ever whim and desire so they wouldn't have to leave, it is made pretty clear that he's creating his apartment complex just for the sake of his ego. He even outright states that it will serve as a "monument to his genius", so in the end, he's nothing more than a petty spiteful monster who is perfectly willing to murder many innocent lives just for the sake of his bruised ego.
Conclusion:
I know this might end up being a controversial CM proposal, but in the end, I'll say keep. But what do you guys think?
Not the Eye
Suprised Forrest Blackwell
Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel
I'm not familiar with that game, but Blackwell's character sheet says that his goal is Utopia Justifies the Means. That makes it sound like if he succeeded, he'd try to genuinely create a world where people are so happy that they don't want to leave. That might count as a redeeming factor; I believe that a true CM would make it so this "utopia" would have people enslaved, mistreated, forced to worship him, or something nasty like that, but it doesn't sound like he does any of these things.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
He never truly cared about making a utopia for people, just something to stroke his own ego, even going far as to call it a monument to his genius. Should I also mention it was an apartment complex with a shopping mall? Also, the fact he was willing to kill everyone in Lego City helps proves that he didn't really care about making a paradise for them.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Considering he didn't offer ANY of the civilians on board and he was willing betray his own colleagues as Rex can attest, I think it's very likely his "utopia" is just for himself and no one else.
Edited by Michealthehero21 on Apr 26th 2023 at 5:29:40 AM
Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel
He might still fail the "not holding back" requirement if he makes that utopia a pleasant place to live, unless "killing everyone in LEGO City" means that he'd be the only one living there.
Didn't we get rid of the whole "never hold back" thing?
Anyway I played Lego city years ago, from what I remember he wasn't anywhere close to have a redeeming quality, I just can't remember how seriously him and his plan was played
REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/Her
Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel
Huh. Anyway holding back only really comes into ay if they're on the edge of being heinous enough, like if there's competition or they're near baseline.
This also reminds me that I've been meaning to check out if the Loki from the Lego Avengers game kept since I recall he did try to feed Earth and Asgard to Galactus.
REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/Her
Man in the Yellow Hat
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Blackwell's defeat being anti-climactically knocked down by a cow out of nowhere? Or is there an explanation for how the cow knocked him down?
Edited by Purgatoryisof2 on Apr 26th 2023 at 8:39:32 AM
He/Him
I honestly don't recall if Loki and his plans were portrayed as seriously as Blackwell as his plans were. But you can try if you want.
I don't think a humorous defeat has stopped a CM from counting before, especially since everything about Blackwell's plan was taken seriously before hand. Plus, Odalia's fate during season 3 of the Owl House was just as humorous and we still voted her up.
Yeah, that's honestly kinda why I don't think Blackwell's defeat should be a disqualifying factor. Fair Point about the Odalia thing though.
Edited by Michealthehero21 on Apr 26th 2023 at 5:52:00 AM
Man in the Yellow Hat
I haven't watched Owl House in full, but from what I know of it, Odalia's fate isn't that comedic and even arguably karmic (a rich lady who flaunted her status being reduced to a meager servant). Same with other C Ms with pretty comedic defeats like Archibald Snatcher (got killed by what he craved) and Trout (got a donut shoved in his mouth by the guy he did that to for the whole movie). This doesn't seem to be the case here, so I'm leaning no.
He/Him
Lizzid people!
Wouldn't go that far to call it "funny" myself: the show more or less treats it as karmic irony due to how she cared about nothing but money now is completely in rags. For "funny," characters like Kikimora are consistently treated as nothing but a joke in-universe.
Snatcher was played seriously prior to exploding into cheesy goodness to be fair. It is a case-by-case kind of deal. If the work goes out of its way to completely invalidate their atrocities, then they'd be disqualified.
Edited by AustinDR on Apr 26th 2023 at 5:51:22 AM
Man in the Yellow Hat
I guess that's fair, and I don't mind him going up (having a LEGO villain count is definitely interesting, and I won't bother debating over a game I haven't played), but for now I'm keeping my vote, especially since it sounds like Blackwell at least had traces of humor before.
Edited by Purgatoryisof2 on Apr 26th 2023 at 8:48:41 AM
He/Him
Gentle Laborer
King and Blackwell
- The Slender Man Mythos:
- Seeking Truth: Albert Conaghan, the Arch-Enemy of Detective Zeke Strahm, is a corrupt businessman who uses his wealth to fund his crimes. Already a Serial Rapist before his first encounter with the Slender Man, Conaghan raped teenagers and even kept some as his sex slaves, earning Zeke's hatred by raping and murdering his high-school crush. Rather than being forced into servitude, Conaghan willingly became a devotee of the Slender Man and butchered several people in his name, including four children and Zeke's partner.
- Dark Harvest: Dr. Hans Freuhauf, a long-deceased follower of the Slender Man, serves as the Predecessor Villain to the Order. Equal parts a Nazi Mad Scientist and an occultist, Freuhauf satisfied his obsession for the Slender Man by experimenting on the detainees of the Belsen concentration camp, elongating their limbs to make them resemble his idol. Defecting to the US during Operation Paperclip and appointed as the director of the Princeton Experiment, Freuhauf performed many sacrifices in his attempts to open a portal to the Fourth World, ultimately resulting in the Slender Man massacring the staff of the Atlantic Test Site.
...Phenomenal
Been sorta lurking the thread for awhile, finally felt confident enough to give it a shot.
What is the work?
Rogue Legacy 2 is a Metroidvania/Roguelike where you play as a series of descendants/reincarnations exploring the ruined underground kingdom of Genesis and piecing together the Story Breadcrumbs that led to its current state.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
Cain the Immortal King is the founder of Genesis and the brother of Abel (who all the player characters are reincarnations of). Seeking to live forever, he sacrificed his brother to the Tree of Life in order to gain its immortality-granting fruit. From there, he went on to use his new power to subjugate all opposition and establish himself as the effective God-Emperor of the underground kingdom. In order to oversee the new kingdom, he fed some of his own immortal flesh to select individuals, turning them into semi-immortal beings known as Estuaries (essentially demigods), who were officially considered his adopted "family". In addition to the Estuaries' duties running Genesis, however, Cain gave them another task: to find a way to make the Tree of Life produce another fruit to increase his power further.
As they struggled to do this, however, he turned his attention to the surface world, spending his time leading his armies in a push to conquer the whole world. Eventually he more or less abandoned the original Estuaries entirely, leaving them to gradually fall into madness and infighting, while he created new Estuaries to serve him on the surface. Eventually he was called back to Genesis, only to write the Estuaries off as failures for not producing another fruit for him. Binding Abel's soul to the artifact Hestia's Reliquary to allow Abel to reincarnate in the form of successive descendants (not knowing Cain had originally killed him), Cain proceeded to task the reincarnations with slaying the Estuaries so that their souls would feed the Tree of Life instead, creating another fruit.
However, the descendants instead uncover a plot to poison the fruit so that it would instead weaken Cain enough to be killed. Deciding to turn on their brother for his crimes, Cain is eventually slain in a climactic battle.... only for him to merge his soul with the Stygian River, causing it to rise up and flood the underground in a last-ditch effort to drag everyone else down with him.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
Not really. Cain claims to love his brother Abel, and extends the same sentiment to Abel's reincarnations, but the game makes it abundantly clear that this "affection" is purely self-serving. Not only was he the one who murdered the original Abel in the first place, but he only reincarnated him in order to manipulate the descendants into doing his bidding. He gives them a We Can Rule Together offer, but it's actually a lie, relying on them not knowing how Estuaries and the fruit of life work. And the moment they turn on him, he immediately writes them off as traitors and tries to kill them without a second of hesitation. Even as he's dying, he shows no remorse, spitefully trying to ensure they die with him.
Noticeably, the game also treats him entirely seriously. Despite the narrative having plenty of lighthearted or humorous moments, they are never directed at Cain - any time he is relevant, the story handles him as a legitimately ominous figure.
Are they bad enough?
Oh yeah. Cain is by far the nastiest figure in the game. Most of the other antagonists have sympathetic aspects to them revealed through the lore or their own memories, even the most ruthless of them. Perhaps the only exception is Estuary Tubal, but even he only turned out as bad as he did due to Cain's abandonment. Cain, by contrast, is a purely self-centered conqueror, and essentially every single bad thing seen or alluded to in the game can be traced back to him. He's horrible both on a large-scale level (a power-hungry tyrant) and a personal one (uncaring to his adoptive family, betrayed his brother).
Final verdict?
Cain's a nasty customer, I think he counts.
Edited by TheGrayFox on Apr 26th 2023 at 6:03:06 AM
There remains a foothold out of this mire — now climb.
ACW: Sounds great.
Edited by MGD107 on Apr 26th 2023 at 2:34:55 AM