Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
Not the Eye
Yes to the unnamed trio of the Trawler, Owner and Snipper. Here's my own nameless dude:
- A Moorish Captain, by Giovanni Battista Giraldi: The Ensign is a scheming, bitter man who resents the Moor for marrying Disdemona. Claiming the Moor's beloved wife is having an affair with his friend the Captain, the Ensign persuades the Moor to pay him to kill both. Crippling the Captain before a gathering crowd forces him to flee, the Ensign then savagely beats Disdemona to death as she pleads her innocence. Banished by the guilt-stricken Moor, the Ensign blames him for the Captain's maiming, leading to the Moor's torture and death before leaving the city, later caught plotting another petty scheme to secure prestige and have a cohort tortured to death in his stead.
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to the Trawler (Jesus fucking Christ), the Owner, and the Snipper. Also, sorry, guys that I have been away for a while, but I came back with another candidate from a pretty obscure horror film and it’s a horror film that doesn’t even have a page on TV Tropes and I was wondering if it’s okay to propose a character from a film that doesn’t have a page on TV Tropes.
Edited by Fireball246 on Jan 30th 2023 at 7:47:49 AM
Lies and Violence!
I think we're being encouraged to make the page for the work first now, but I'm not 100% sure on that. Yes to Snipper.
I have a character whom I've been thinking of suggesting for some time. I'm doubtful about her, but decided to give her a try after all. It's Gingema from Tales of the Magic Land.
The Work
Tales of the Magic Land by Alexander Volkov started as a loose translation of The Wonderful Wizard of Oz before growing into a six-book Alternate Continuity.The Character
Gingema is the counterpart to the Wicked Witch of the East. For many years, she lives in the land of the Munchkins and seems to be content with regular dog-kicking, with her worst action being the enchantment she puts on the future Iron Woodcutter's axe that leads to the axe eventually chopping up his entire body - and even that doesn't kill him and only ends his engagement.However, one day, Gingema snaps because the world is getting too annoying for her. In particular, with the drying of swamps and other man-caused changes to the nature and climate, her favorite snacks like frogs are harder to come by.
Gingema's solution is to conjure the worst hurricane in history. She orders it to kill people and the majority of the planet's fauna and only spare the animals she eats (and uses as potion ingredients). Her plan only fails because the neighboring good witch Villina decides she is Neutral No Longer and not only weakens the hurricane but makes sure it will only kill Gingema herself.
Mitigating Issues
Zero. Gingema is an Omnicidal Maniac who wants to remain the only sapient being in the world, with food and potion ingredients galore. She doesn't care that the hurricane would kill her sister. She seems to be somewhat nice towards Urfin Jus, the only Munchkin ever to serve her willingly, but she doesn't spare a thought for him either when she summons the hurricane.Heinousness Standard
Despite only appearing for two pages, Gingema is actually the worst villain in Volkov's six books. All the other villains of the series are tyrants with varying levels of oppressiveness, but nobody else wants to destroy the world.(Arachna in the fifth book does nearly cause a collapse of the Magic Land with her Yellow Fog curse, but she only wanted to use it to blackmail the people into accepting her regime and intended to lift it the moment they did so - she never expected them to continue defying her for months).
Conclusion
Unless Gingema is too generic, I'd say she fits.Edited by AutumnLeaves on Jan 30th 2023 at 6:56:33 PM
The Emperor of Evil!
Sure to Gingema
Ultimate Moral Compass
Gingema
Time to discuss a game that I’m surprised hasn’t been talked about on the threads.
What’s the Work?
Messiah is a... very interesting game by Shiny Entertainment, and the source of the infamous Roblox "Oof" sound. No really.
This game's... an odd one. The world has gone to shit thanks to an ominous council called The Fathers, who have something sinister in the works. God tasks an angel known as Bob to head for Earth for some training. Now Bob isn't just an ordinary angel; despite his tiny, cherubic figure and adorable voice, Bob has the power of possession, able to take over the minds of anybody and inherit their skills.
Anyways, Bob is told through voices from a certain religious deity that in order to save the world, he must defeat its ruler, Father Prime. Bob must put his possession skills to the test in order to save mankind from Prime’s dictatorship.
I have two candidates to discuss, so let’s start with our first…
Who is He?
Father Prime, part of a cabal of other Fathers (who only exist in the instruction manual) who rule the world, is the key figurehead of the Fathers and the face of their organization.
What has he done?
Prime helps keep the world in a desolate state, performing countless genetic experimentations using the world’s population—even those loyal to him—for mutant transformations, all to acquire knowledge and power. As the Earth becomes more polluted, and its denizens under the thumb of the Fathers’ brutal police squads, Prime continues to desire more power, so he delves into something greater: magic.
But not just any magic. For you see, Prime seeks to delve into the forbidden knowledge beyond science itself, a new type of scientific discovery known as Science Myth, which involves discovering proof between the existence of Heaven and Hell. Hoping to control God himself, Prime operates a scientific base on the dark side of the moon to find the knowledge he seeks. On the moon, Prime opens a portal to Hell and imprisons Satan, hoping to study and control him in order to find a way to get ahold of God. To keep Satan alive in the Earth realm, Prime instigates mass killings around the city of Fakur in order to acquire their blood and corpses for Satan to feast on.
Upon his encounter with Bob, now possessing the body of Prime’s prized mutant, Prime cowardly yells at him to go away, but Bob easily strangles him to death.
Redeeming Qualities?
None.
Heinousness?
So while's he's part of an evil organization, Prime is the current ruler of the world, has a heavy hand in the planet's corruption and the plan to use Satan to their advantage, and is the only member of the Fathers we see in the game. When he dies, that's it for the Fathers, meaning that Prime is the source behind all the group's villainy and tyranny on Earth.
But again, Prime's got genetic experimentation, despotic tyranny, several sacrifices, and seeking to work with Satan to bring down God and ascend to higher power. While some of his actions exist in the game's instruction manual and several news reports, Prime's corruption is fully present onscreen, having a big hand in the world's grey murkiness and senseless deaths.
Conclusion
Pretty good keep
Edited by therealjackieboy on Jan 30th 2023 at 10:51:35 AM
"No running in the halls!"
Cautious yeah to Prime, I don't know the HS of the work beyond what the effortpost says so I think he fits and Gingema.
Here is my proposed writeup for Ehssk:
Alien Chronicles: Ehssk is the head researcher at the Vess Vaas institute, responsible for finding a cure for the Dancing Death plague long feared by the Viis. Noting that the various abiru species are immune to the disease, he attempts to splice over their immunity through genetic modification. His method for studying the splicing process? Using captive abiru women as Breeding Slaves, artificially impregnating them with half-Viis hybrids. The hybrids are dissected shortly after birth, and the women killed off when they can no longer reproduce. One woman in the institute has been driven insane after being subject to the procedure 17 times, while another is heavily implied to be a teenager. Worst of all, it's All for Nothing; Ehssk's research produces few, if any, useful results despite the horrors his test subjects are put through. And yet the Viis Empire continues to give him a blank check out of desperation to cure the Dancing Death, oblivious to Ehssk's methods and unwilling to call out his lack of results. Tellingly, even the Viis empress Israi is horrified to learn that he artificially impregnated Ampris and dissected her daughter shortly after birth. Even before Israi finds this out, she begins to suspect that Ehssk is not as committed to his goal as he claims, given his lack of results and the fact that his extensive funding allows him to maintain an extravagant lifestyle. It's heavily implied that Ehssk is motivated by the potential glory of curing the Dancing Death more than any sort of altruism, and is prepared to put his test subjects through hell for even the slimmest chance of results.
Not sure what the process is beyond this. Do I need authorisation to add it to the Drafts Page, or just put it there straightaway?
Justice for Skywarp
Is the 1996 Movie Trunchbull already approved as CM? The Trunchbull's CM paragraph on the Matilda YMMV page in the Book folder mentions her breaking Ms. Honey's arm, which I think only happens in the movie and not the book. I think '96 Trunchbull has enough unique crimes to warrant a separate CM paragraph, so I may or may not make an EP for that Trunchbull once the 2022 Trunchbull is approved.
To fill out my allowed number of candidates for this time period
What's the Work?
Last Heir is another one of the short horror games made by 616 GAMES, and like many of his games, it is basically some sort of "rip-off" of another game, in this case Puppet Combo's "Feed Me Billy". The game follows Dylan, as he inherited the house in the middle of nowhere from his grandfather and arrives there, only to discover that the land has dark secrets.
Full walkthrough can be watched here:
My candidate is the chief servant of the main villain - Robert.
Who is Robert?
The chief servant of the creature, that inhabits the land, where Dylan's grandfather lived, Robert is a demonic being, who takes the human form to "guide" and manipulate people to kill other people and throw the corpses in the giant hole in the ground, where the creature devours their body and soul. Afterwards killing the people, who have done creature's bidding by having the creature to devour them alive, Robert instructed Dylan's father to murder people, after which he got rid of him.
As Dylan arrived there and was controlled by the creature to kill one guy, Robert meets him in his house and commands him to kill more people, saying that the creature will keep his land "fertile and prosperous" in exchange and threatening him if he refuses. After Dylan kills two more people, Robert met him in the middle of the night, when he goes to check out on the creature and gleefully throwed him down the hole to be devoured by the creature.
There Dylan faces the creature, who took Robert's form (implying that the creature is Robert himself) and battles it, managing to destroy it and escape from the hole.
Redeeming Qualities?
None. Has no apparent agency issues and isn't shown to truly care about the creature, other than aiding it in killing and devouring people and souls.
Heinousness?
Chief servant of the creature and the one, who does most of the work to force or convince people to become murderers and kill other people, so that creature may devour their body and soul. While the creature is technically the main villain, it doesn't have a personality to keep, with Robert being the Heavy, who has enough dialogue to count.
Conclusion?
What do you think?
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Emerald, not only Ch'Rell, but my version of Apocalypse is kinda like that. So yeah, that's definitely allowed.
Jokster, if you wanna attempt a separate paragraph, go for it. Though I think 2022 Trunchbull got enough votes; you can write her up tonight (well, tonight my time).
Yes to the Snipper; Gingema; Prime; Robert.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Current mood: sick of your shit
Hey, so I was curious if I'm allowed to ask questions about the new rules and practices on this thread, or if there's another thread I'm supposed to go to. I understand there's quite a few new rules in place and I wanna make sure I'm not getting hollered.
Read "Ghost Stories of Remnant" here.
Not the Eye
to Gingema, father Prime and Robert
I keep getting tempted to propose Cervantes de Léon from the Soul series given all the awful stuff he does even outside of his time as Soul Edge's puppet, but... nope. Turns out that when he was a kid he idolized his kindhearted privateer father... until his dad was caught offguard and killed by a disguised warship. After that, Cervantes took his dad's hat and repudiated his code of honour by deciding to become the most-feared pirate ever.
Cervantes profile on the official website for Soul Edge/Blade says that he was devastated by his father's death, but the text in Soul Blade's Edge Master dossier makes him sound more... contemptuous... than anything, IMO:
Edited by Arawn999 on Jan 31st 2023 at 5:52:46 AM
One little thing for the Scoresby write-up, @STARCRUSHER 99 - specifically, he targets females with calves ("parents" would imply he and his crew target adults of both genders... which isn't what we see in the film). Or is this too pedantic?
Edited by Nathanoraptor on Jan 31st 2023 at 2:15:25 PM
@Sum: I'd say ask away here or the sibling thread.
Lies and Violence!
Yes to Gingema, Prime, and Robert.
@Erroneous, if it's approved then you can just put it on the drafts page, no authorization needed.
Just a disclaimer, but I am blatantly copy-and-pasting a lot of this from my effort post of the original character.
Skulduggery Pleasant stars the titular Skeleton Detective and his teenage sidekick Valkyrie Cain as they fight evil in a secret, magic society hidden from the normal world. Throughout the series, they have taken on gods, psychotic assassins, racists, zealots, and racist zealots. The Greater Scope Villains of the entire series are the Faceless Ones, Eldritch Abominations that were banished into another dimension long, long ago. Unfortunately, despite the utter horror they inflict on other worlds across the multiverse as they try to return home, none of them count, as they're too indistinguishable from one another. Fortunately, they have zealots who are distinguishable! And racist!
Who is the Bad Future Damocles Creed?
So the Faceless Ones got kicked out of reality long, long ago. Unfortunately, as time went on the sorcerers who worshipped them as benevolent saviors grew in number, eventually sparking a massive, secret war between the dark gods' zealots and the sane people. Creed is one of these zealots, and he has the delightful Establishing Character Moment of regarding his brother-in-law, the series' stand-in for Voldemort who led a 300-year long genocidal war, as being too soft.
Creed's passion project is to find the "Child of the Faceless Ones," a descendent of the dark gods who would be able to open a portal for them back to Earth. Tracking down human descendants with faint traces of Faceless One DNA from when the gods took human form, Creed's failed experimentees would turn into mindless Kith—catatonic people whose faces have completely melted off. He created tens of thousands of Kith before his operations were finally shut down, all completely dead to the world. Some of these descendants he would recruit into his cult, brainwashing them into fervent worshippers who would gladly step forth to partake in the Kith experiments.
Fast-forward to the present, and Creed has managed to manipulate his way into becoming "Supreme Mage" (person in charge of the Sanctuaries/magic government). This political power allows him to resume his Kith experiments and instigate curfews, mandatory worship, and thought police to keep dissidence down, arresting random people off the street to never be seen again. Having participated in the construction of the magical city of Roarhaven years ago, Creed arranged for a massive ritual to be incorporated into its design. When activated (after about three years of regular sacrifices to power it), the ritual would send out a massive wave to search for the Child of the Faceless Ones, turning everyone in its wake into Kith—or just melting them into a pile of gore—until it found someone with strong enough Faceless One DNA.
Long story short, Valkyrie gets sent to a Bad Future where this went off without a hitch. The wave killed a few thousand people before finding Valkyrie, who, in fact, has a strong enough bloodline. Unfortunately, she resisted the change and transformed into some weird harpy monster. Still, Creed knew her bloodline was what he was looking for, finding her baby sister Alice and turning her into the Child. With Creed grooming her into a loyal disciple, Alice, by the laws of magic, took up the new name of... uh... Malice.
... I could defend that choice, but I won't. The second half of this series admittedly faces a dip in quality.
Anyway, Creed managed to strengthen the magic of every sorcerer in the world, predictably exposing themselves to the mortals (their term for muggles). After a series of riots and terrorist attacks, Creed led the Sanctuaries in a short but brutal war that ended with him on top. Soon, Malice was strong enough to summon the gods, and with them at his side Creed wiped out billions and enslaved the useless mortal muggles.
Declaring himself "High Exalted One" (the pope), Creed set up a totalitarian police state. Sorcerers' lives are a complete paradise... so long as you don't go against the will of the Faceless Ones, as you'll be put to death for even a mild remark of sympathy for people trying to escape Creed's rule. Public beheadings are apparently a regular thing. The mortals are separated into three categories. The few born into high-ranking families are second-class citizens at best. The "serfs" are just slaves. And all the rest are cattle whose souls are harvested to feed the gods. Fortunately, Valkyrie's visit gives her the knowledge needed to fix things.
... Well, everything gets worse first, but it's all fixed in the end. Due to shenanigans, Valkyrie sacrifices herself to stop the Activation, but this time is successfully brainwashed and turned into the Child. Present!Creed still doesn't trust her—smart move, since her friends eventually manage to break the brainwashing—and invents a device that lets him mentally communicate with the Faceless Ones, overriding his own mind and essentially turning him into one of the gods (in mind, if not in power-level).
Fighting ensues—Creed develops a sort-of genuine worship of the Faceless Ones when he sadly remarks on some of their deaths, but that I'll chalk up to him getting Mind Raped into undying faith by them 24/7 through the communication device—but a bigger fish arrives and scares the dark gods into surrender, stopping Creed's plans before things escalate into the industry of enslavement he ran in the future.
Mitigating factors?
Genocide, global war, slavery, yadda yadda yadda. Heinousness is no issue; Creed is easily the worst of the worst as the pinnacle of the Faceless Ones' twisted Religion of Evil. Hell, Present!Creed effectively becomes one of them. He sets a high bar for any future villains to pass, although considering the Power Creep these books have been going through I'm kind of already dreading that happening.
His worship isn't redeeming, considering just how much of a blatantly self-serving Religion of Evil the Church of the Faceless is. He's a tad depressed when they lose in the present, but, again, that's coming off straight weeks of Mind Rape, and after calming down and recovering he concludes they were too weak to be worthy of worship and tries to throw himself right back into the whole tyrant thing.
The real issue is whether Bad Future!Creed is distinct enough from Present!Creed, especially when we never meet the former in person (most of this information is relayed to us by other characters from the Bad Future). I think he's just different enough—Future!Creed was merely the gods' High Priest who groomed a child into being their murderous voice on earth, while Present!Creed decides to turn himself into their Mouth of Sauron. Future!Creed Present!Creed releases the Faceless Ones as the final step of a long, drawn-out war rather than the opening move of his conquest. And, of course, Present!Creed never gets the opportunity to indulge in a global industry of slavery and mass sacrifice. Just enough differences in their methods and accomplishments to distinguish them, I think.
Not the Eye
Yes to Bad Future Democles
Absolutely no issues here!
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Ugh, not fond of never actually meeting him, so I'm personally abstaining, though he probably technically passes.
EDIT: Also, if the killer got approved, please add the writeup to the Drafts.
Edited by ACW on Jan 31st 2023 at 10:04:38 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
The Emperor of Evil!
to bad future!Domocles Creed and Robert.
Edited by Powermaster201 on Jan 31st 2023 at 10:07:58 AM
Human Bean
I'm not sure this is the right thread where to ask, because I have a doubt over the criteria for Complete Monster and I don't intend to make a specific proposal.
I noticed a few rejected proposals had as reason "relies too much on Fridge Horror to qualify". I think I understand this only marginally. My guess is that if it relies on Fridge Horror, it means the character's evilness could be ascribed to the audience overanalyzing it, there's too much room for Alternative Character Interpretation?
pretty much. I think the evil needs to be at least demonstrated and intended. Comedic kid show villains just doing generic villainy isn't meant to be subject to "and millions died horribly"
Edited by Echidna on Jan 30th 2023 at 6:28:48 AM