Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yes to Blackwell.
I'm not sure I've ever heard of this Wolfe fellow.
Edited by ACW on Oct 28th 2023 at 4:15:56 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
"Killer Satan" yeah go figure
Edited by Mr-ex777 on Oct 28th 2023 at 4:25:26 PM
Yes to Nathaniel Jeremiah Blackwall
the Retromancer
Let me try something here for the first time. I wasn't sure how detailed should I get, but I've tried to be concise. I've looked through the header and other posts, but tell me if I've got something wrong.
What is the work?
Purple Eyes in the Dark: A schoolgirl Rinko Ozaki discovers her ability to turn into a leopard (a Transformer). This gets noticed by her biology teacher, Kaoruko Sonehara, who tries to capture her for research at all cost. Rinko is protected by her Childhood Friend Shinya Mizushima and another Transformer Mitsugu Odagiri, the latter of which impregnates her out of desperation for his short lifespan.Rinko and Sonehara end up disappearing after a confrontation on a cliff, and Shinya ends up taking care of her daughter Mai Mizushima. Sonehara turns out to be still alive and allying herself with a secret society of weak Transformers, both of which are obsessed with Mai as a child of two Transformers for different motives. A Transformer Akio Takashina ends up defecting and allying with Mai. After several more tragedies, Akio finally kills Sonehara and escapes the country with Mai.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
Kaoruko Sonehara is a biology teacher who is dead-set on capturing Rinko Ozaki to research her bestial transformation. After the punks she has sent to gang-rape her, out of her curiosity, end up dead due to Rinko freaking out, she abducts and tortures her in the school's lab.
When Rinko escapes, Sonehara does the same to her younger sister Maiko, just to see if the sibling has the same power, which she has not. Maiko ends up killed by Sonehara's guard dogs right when Rinko was close to rescuing her, and even expresses joy seeing Rinko's fury first-hand.
During the next pursuit of Rinko, Sonehara murders a few innocent witnesses for catching her in illegal acts or for simply getting in the way, including her accomplice. When Rinko gives birth to Mai, Sonehara abducts and nearly drowns her newborn to lure Rinko out, while intending to raise the child as her obedient research material.
In the 15 years after Rinko has managed to rescue Mai seemingly at the cost of herself, Sonehara is shown to have brainwashed Rinko, and attempts to do the same to Mai. During that time Sonehara also manages to usurp the leadership position of the clan of Transformer hybrids and takes their resources intended to capture Mai for herself.
When the heroes try to rescue Rinko, her husband Shinya ends up killed by Sonehara and Rinko decides to join him after 15 years, while the rest get captured. When Mai avoids being lobotomized, Sonehara drags Akio, Mai's lover and another Transformer, to a national TV station for a public show. When Mai rescues Akio, Sonehara blows up the entire public building just to prevent their escape, before getting killed off by Akio.
All of that just to prove to the society that werepeople exist.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
Sonehara is motivated by validating her father's paper, who has predicted that human cells theoretically have the capability to change into animal cells, but was ridiculed by the scientific community. Aside of that she is completely self-centered and single-minded, and doesn't even react to her father's eventual death.
Are they bad enough?
Multiple characters comment that out of everyone else, Sonehara can hardly even be called human. Ironically, even the Transformer clan, who act as secondary antagonists, are viewed somewhat sympathetically, and Sonehara slowly pushes them from their original motives into becoming her Mooks.
Also, in contrast to kills done by Rinko, who fails to control herself and has once attempted suicide as an escape, Sonehara is explicitly shown to not value life, Transformer or human in general, and is seen feeling sadism and spite seeing her prey unnecessarily hurt emotionally and physically.
Final verdict?
While other characters try to either remain human or have humane motives, Kaoruko Sonehara repeatedly proves herself to be a monster in human form.
Yes to Sonehara
My next is from the Brian Lumley story House of the Temple
Brian Lumley is one of the modern inheritors for the Lovecraft mythos, much like Ramsey Campbell. Most well known as the man behind the Necroscope series, Lumley is also a prolific short story writer. One such story? The House of the Temple, told as in usual Lovecraft style of an epistolary where a man naed John Haish inherits his uncle's Scottish estate, Temple House on one condition: that he destroy it. And he soon discovers the horrors lurking within.
Who is Chorazos?
A Romanian Priest who headed an order. Chorazos was a frequent visitor to the court of Queen Elizabeth II for his knowledge of astrology, and soon established a temple in the north. Unfortunately, things began to get so bizarre and creepy that the Queen couldn't ignore it. John Dee, himself no saint, got really weirded out when he investigated the groups and their rites. Chorazos participated in human sacrifice, orgies and more. Elizabeth sent her forces to break them up, but Chorazos escaped.
Chorazos sumoned something from out of space and time. A horrific spawn of Yog-Sothoth, called a "Wampyre" contemporaneously, but bearing no resemblance to the common one. A hideous devourer of souls that feeds on victims and traps them in anguish. Chorazos began to sacrifice victims to it. Including children he lured out, keeping his monster in the old pool he created.
Upon hearing of them, King James of Scotland sent his forces. The cult was annihilated and Chorazos slain, Temple House eventually built on the spot.
....but the monster is still in the pool. Waiting.
Mitigting issues?
Nah. Chorazos is long dead but we get ample recountings, notes, etc. Full on characteriztion here, and we see what the monster does to its victims. John's uncle is one of its victims, and it ain't pretty.
Conclusion?
Yep.
Edited by Lightysnake on Oct 28th 2023 at 1:47:54 AM
Goku Black
Chorazos and Soneharo
Also good job on the first ep btw.
Edited by miraculous on Oct 28th 2023 at 1:50:29 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yes to Chorazos. Will this go to the Mythos page like Titus Crow, or just the main Lit page? This has it as a Mythos story.
Edited by ACW on Oct 28th 2023 at 4:52:18 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Not the Eye
to Chorazon and Sonehara
Honestly, I'd put it near row? Lumley implies it takes place in the same 'verse by referencing Ithaqua, but his version of the mythos is more Derleth than Lovecraft
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
So just put it with Others? Or should I have a tree in Others for Lumley, to encompass Crow and this new one?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Sonehara. Very good first EP.
My last for today now...
This is from a story by the late and great Henry Kuttner. Kuttner was the grandson of famous Jewish scholar Josua Kuttner and a very big deal in both the Jewish and Spec Fic communities. Kuttner was married to trailblazing SFF writer CL Moore and was actually introduced to her by none other than HP Lovecraft, a friend of his (who Moore frequently argued with on matters of race). He left behind a massive body of work of Science Fiction, Fantasy, and Horror tales, some in Lovecraft's own mythos. His most famous story, the Graveyard Rats, has been adapted many times. Most recently in Guillermo del Toro's Cabinet of Curiosities.
Now, in his story "Avengers of Space," earth has been destroyed and hero Terry Shawn and his crew of "The Eagle" fly through space to avenge it. They end up running into none other than this villain on Mars. I give you Droom.
Who is Droom?
Droom is an alien who reigns over Mars, or Kathor like a God. A vicious sadist, Droom demands mass sacrifice. In his words: "“I am a god. Ages ago the scientists of this world took the brain of a beast-man, evolved it by long and painful experiments. It became superhuman. I am that brain. I rule Kathor.”
Advanced, Droom took control of the planet and has nuerous bodies, keeping the beings of the world agonizingly enslaved to his power.He tortures the people he controls frequently and in usual nastiness, he forces sadistic games on the populace. Anyone who ends up on Kathor finds themselves tortured and enslaved to feed Droom's limitless ego.
Terry and friends find themselves in danger of being picked off by Droom who intends to torture and sacrifice them, and shows he uses the bodies of others as "backups," sacrificing his own. When he tries to kill Terry's love interest, Terry instead breaks out and attacks the brain itself, destroying Droom for good.
Mitigating issues?
Not really. We get Droom's reign and while Droom mentions he was created by "painful experiments," he never shows any capacity to be sympathetic. He's sadistic, childish, cruel, petty, and obsessed with being a God. So I'm inclined to say we're fine here. Mass death and torture on grand scales.
Conclusion?
Yes to DROOM
Not the Eye
Droom
Here’s my other EP.
Outlaw of Gor is a terrible Sword And Sandals film based on the infamous Gor novels. The films (thankfully) erased all of the “philosophy” of the novels in favor of ripping off Conan The Barbarian, and is now known only for being riffed on by Mystery Science Theater 3000.
Cabot and the the loveable Watney are transported to the planet of Gor, where Cabot is reunited with his love Talena. Finding out that he was summoned by The Elder after suspicions were raised that the high priest Xeno wished to seize the throne for himself. As it turns out, he’s completely correct. Though the candidate in question is not Xeno himself but rather the person he wishes to place on the throne, an ambitious and cruel woman named Lara.
What has she done?
Seducing and then marrying Marlenus the King, Lara secretly desired the throne for herself. When Marlenus announced his intentions to step down and give the throne to Cabot, Lara got Xeno to agree to the assassination of the King. Slipping him poison, Lara seduced Marlenus and then stabbed him to death as soon as the poison took effect. Framing Cabot for the crime, Lara slew The Elder himself when he attempted to intercede on Cabot’s behalf and then had Watney (who had just provided an alibi for her) and Tarlena thrown into the dungeon to be tortured. Cabot escaped hellbent on vengeance along with his friend Hup.
Seizing the crown, Lara immediately got to work undoing all of Marlenus’ work reforming Gor. Reinstating slavery, Lara let slavers run rampant throughout the country and used the labor for herself to be worked to death building palaces, in the mines, and even as sexual slaves, with us seeing first hand slaver’s ambushing people to be sold on to depraved and greedy people in the capital. She also forced Tarlena to fight two gladiators for her own entertainment and was enraged when she wasn’t brutally killed.
When Cabot was captured by The Hunter and returned to her in the capital, Lara decided against killing Cabot purely because she wanted to break him mentally first. Enraged after Cabot rebuffs her attempts to seduce him, Lara channeled her anger into her worst onscreen act: being taken to the mines where dozens of people are worked to death, a cave in begins to happen. After terrified soldiers and slaves attempt to flee, Lara orders the exits sealed up purely For the Evulz, resulting in many people being Buried Alive. Smugly satisfied with the massacre, Lara tells Xeno that she plans to enact the same fate to most of the population of Gor and that she hopes he hates her utterly.
Realizing what a monster he has enabled to take over, Xeno attempted to double cross Lara but was murdered by her whilst doing so. Whilst attempting to publicly execute Cabot, Watney, Tarlena and Hup, Watney revealed that Lara had manipulated him into providing her with an alibi for Marlenus’ death resulting in the angry crowd turning on her. After ordering her soldiers to kill Cabot and co, The Hunter interceded and threw his spear into her.
Redeeming Qualities or Freudian Excuse?
Does it sound like she has any? Literally the only thing worth mentioning is that she mentions that she used to be a slave herself, but this isn't played for sympathy in the slightest. In the same breath, tells Xeno how that it taught her that cruelty pays and that she will make sure she breaks everyone purely so they know she’s in charge, so natch there.
Heinous Standard?
Dozens of deaths, allows slavery both sexual and not to run rampant and plans on enacting it on most of the population. An easy pass.
Conclusion?
A very deep and complex character but ultimately a yes.
Get '''''OUT''''' of here, '''''you DISgusting WORM!'''''
Edited by Atlantis1930 on Oct 28th 2023 at 12:17:05 PM
Not the Eye
to Lara.
Goku Black
lara and droom
to Robert Livingston, Mysterious Man, Ithaka Wassali, the Unnamed Sniper, Mr. Beers, the Devil, Behemoth, Nathaniel Jeremiah Blackwall, Kaoruko Sonehara, Chorazos, Droom and Lara.
ACW: I might be remembering it wrong, but didn't Chad attempt to release the Anthrax at a crowded railway station that would have killed hundreds of people not ten?
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I just went by what the wiki said.
Chorazos as well
Carrot Clone
Behemoth, Blackwell, Chorazos, Droom, and Lara
Yes to Chorazos, Droom, and Lara
A Girl, Just One of Many Kinds
Yes to Sonehara, Lara, Droom, Sonehara and Chorazos
Well The Devil, not sure if there’s anymore Puppet Combo Complete Monster or from TSV. The most recent candidate, Ding Dong Ditch Killee, ultimately fails to Womb Ripper and Dylan (since it’s created by the same person), and Mother Apollonia was rejected as well, although idk if she’s worth a relook or not since honestly, the games have a weird thing with continuity that may or may not help, could use help with that. And all the othe ultimately are too insane, standard or enigmatic to count.
Edited by MermaidEyes15 on Oct 28th 2023 at 6:03:40 AM
Keep Fighting. Keep Loving.
...Phenomenal
for Blackwall, Sonehara, Chorazos, Droom, and Lara.
to Lara and Droom
Easy yes