Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.
If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.
IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.
What goes through this thread?
- Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
- If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's CMs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
- If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
- Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
- If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.
What does not go through this thread?
- New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
- Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
- Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
- If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
- Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
- Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
- Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
- Spelling and grammar fixes.
- Pothole changes.
- Minor rewordings.
- Spoiler tags.
While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:
- Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
- If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
- Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.
Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.
As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.
Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM
Okay so I'm looking at Bart's CM write-up from Danny the Dog and honestly it seems a bit too bloated to be and I think it needs a trimmed re-write. This is what Bart's write-up looks like now:
- Danny the Dog: "Uncle" Bart is a British mobster with a calm, friendly demeanor, but on the inside is a ruthless mob boss with an anger problem. He took Danny in as a child after murdering his mother because she refused to be with him. Bart then spends many years raising Danny into becoming a mindless, savage killing machine by locking him in a cage, and feeding him dog food, even laughing when Danny expresses human desires. He uses Danny to attack and kill other mobsters if one of Bart's trade distributions goes poorly by unlocking his collar. After months of recovering from a car crash, Bart forces Danny into fighting and killing in an underground fight club for money, threatening him by promising to cut off his testicles if he doesn't participate. When Danny decides not to kill his opponent, Bart decides to kill his opponent himself. When Danny escapes from him again, Bart decides to send his goons after Danny, promising to kill Sam and Victoria because they gave Danny a better life. Near the end, Bart tries to make Danny kill him in order to make Danny the animal he always saw him as.
This is what I'm suggesting for Bart:
- Danny the Dog: Bart is an ill-tempered mob boss who murdered a woman for rejecting his advances and enslaves her son, Danny, into becoming his attack dog, having him beat-up and kill whoever he wants and live to inhumane conditions for years. When Danny is offered money if he fights in Wyeth’s underground death matches, Bart threatens to castrate him should he not compete and kills his opponent when Danny refuses to do so. Bart and his goons go after Danny when the latter decides to leave him, while also having intent to kill a family who took Danny in. When finally defeated, Bart goads Danny to kill him in his attempt to prove that Danny is a killer just like him.
Don't worry I haven't forgotten about doing Wyeth's write-up (there's still a couples hours left before the 72 hour mark and he would go under Bart), but while I wait, is there any thoughts about Bart's re-write?
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Yes Wyeth has more than enough votes as only one person voted him ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_down_emote.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
and made that arguement, while everyone else that voted on him voted ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
. Plus I countered that argument by explaining that Wyeth uses money to lure and manipulate people to fight and kill each other for entertainment and no one, including the Big Bad Bart would have known about these death matches if it wasn't for Wyeth, with no one retracting their votes when I made that counter-argument (not to mention more people still voted for Wyeth).
EDIT: Okay just tallied Wyeth: it's 10 over 1 , Wyeth is good. Anywho what your thoughts on Bart's write-up ACW?
Edited by G-Editor on Jul 25th 2023 at 1:36:53 PM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Does Wyeth even have enough votes? There was debate over whether the fighters were willing.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Yeah, just organizing bloodsport isn't much
Goku Black
Umh could we like discuss Wylet a bit. Bart sounds absolutely terrible as The guy who actually does the killing and what he did to his family.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Let's discuss Wyeth more at the proposal thread.
Bart's rewrite looks fine.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
If it's not too late, I think we keep Iago. His niche is way different from Hans, being manipulative and personal in a way Hans's ax crazy behavior doesn't match. I'll review after work if need be, but Iago very much stands out.
For 12 Years a Slave Epps' entry has this weird bit
- Edwin Epps is a chilling, living example of the utter horrors of slavery and all that it entails. Epps runs his plantation with an iron fist and any slave who picks less than 200 pounds of cotton a day are given many lashes. Succeeding is no guarantee of safety, as Epps is liable to fly into violent furies when he's drunk, or just because he wants to hurt someone. Epps forces the slaves out of needed sleep to force them to dance for his amusement in a parody of a Gentleman's Ball and focuses especially on a beautiful slave named Patsey who he calls his Queen Of The Field for her talent with cotton-picking. Epps repeatedly rapes her, saying he can do what he wants with his property. He also flies into jealous furies over Patsey and later in the film forces Solomon Northup to whip her by holding a gun to Solomon's head. Losing patience, Epps simply takes the whip from Solomon and lashes into Patsey until her back is cut to bloody shreds. And when Solomon is revealed to be a free man, he can only think of the monetary loss this means to him.
For the monetary loss part why is it in italics? Also I don't think we're supposed to pothole The Sociopath in entries since it's basically one of the base requirements, like how for MB you're not supposed to pothole The Chessmaster
REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/Her
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I don't know why it's italicized, but the CM page has It's All About Me instead of The Sociopath.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
The Moron
It was changed by someone about four months ago. Go ahead and just change it back
Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Jul 25th 2023 at 3:43:10 PM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Let's add Big Bad around Epps, so:
- 12 Years a Slave: Edwin Epps is a chilling, living example of the utter horrors of slavery and all that it entails. Epps runs his plantation with an iron fist and any slave who picks less than 200 pounds of cotton a day are given many lashes. Succeeding is no guarantee of safety, as Epps is liable to fly into violent furies when he's drunk, or just because he wants to hurt someone. Epps forces the slaves out of needed sleep to force them to dance for his amusement in a parody of a Gentleman's Ball and focuses especially on a beautiful slave named Patsey who he calls his Queen Of The Field for her talent with cotton-picking. Epps repeatedly rapes her, saying he can do what he wants with his property. He also flies into jealous furies over Patsey and later in the film forces Solomon Northup to whip her by holding a gun to Solomon's head. Losing patience, Epps simply takes the whip from Solomon and lashes into Patsey until her back is cut to bloody shreds. And when Solomon is revealed to be a free man, he can only think of the monetary loss this means to him.
The Yggdrasil Cretin
HUGE SPOILERS ABOUT THE VISUAL NOVEL Echo
So, Echo already lost one Cuh Muh because the Echo Entity was proposed by a Ban Evader (personally, I also look at it with narrowed eyes because there's implications of Made of Evil, and whether or not it's enough of a character is a can of worms the size of a barrel), but I also doubt the remaining Echo Cuh Muh is a keeper.
James Hendricks I is an absolutely disgusting bastard who stands out, and his Freudian Excuse of his father being an abusive asshole doesn't hold up, but there is one aspect of his family life that makes him less than Completely Monstrous in my opinion: Apparently he had a good relationship with his sister.
According to a biography Chase reads about James, he and his sister got along during childhood and after James struck it rich, he would regularly send his sister some of his money so she could sustain her own family.
Nothing suggests this wasn't out of genuine care for his sister: Yes, James was a public figure and a manipulative bastard, so maybe it was just so he wouldn't publicly look like a monster who left his sister to rot? Apparently not, since if this was for the sake of looking good to the public he would have also sent money to his still-living parents, but he didn't. Even after becoming rich, James left his asshole father and his (most likely innocent) mother penniless and they both died in poverty, so him supporting his sister but not them looks like personal favoritism, aka care. Also, the fact Chase learned the leaving-his-parents-to-rot thing from the same book also shows that it's not a book falsely embellishing James, so his Pet the Dog treatment of his sister holds up as a fact we are meant to take as true.
Edited by KoshaVinka on Jul 25th 2023 at 10:50:44 AM
Cut Hendricks, it really looks like he cares about his sister
REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/Her
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
The Draftsman of Doom
Cut Hendricks.
Feels good, don't it?
Not the Eye
Cut James
Cut James
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Goku Black
Cut James
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Unofficial co-Wiki Curator for Magnificent Bastard
Cut James.
MB Pending | MB Drafts | MB Dates
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
x7 Yes
Cut James, also the Echo Entity is weaseled up huh.
Best Smile
For Obadiah Stane's entry on Marvel Comics Spiteful Suicide works better as the final pothole in his entry
REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/Her
An Eldritch Troper
Cut Hendricks.
I can't figure out how to rewrite the Yuno entry nor am I familiar with the work so I'll have someone else handle it.
Okay.
Edited by Draxterrus on Jul 26th 2023 at 1:53:58 AM
Humanity is defined by its absurdity, and I am no exception.
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Cut James.
I can take a stab at a rewrite for the YUNO guy if folks would like unless someone here familiar with the series can attempt it?
Edited by WetFlannels on Jul 25th 2023 at 6:31:13 PM
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
So anyone know how to fix this entry
. It's written in a very confusing manner
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."