Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.
If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.
IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.
What goes through this thread?
- Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
- If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's CMs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
- If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
- Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
- If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.
What does not go through this thread?
- New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
- Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
- Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
- If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
- Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
- Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
- Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
- Spelling and grammar fixes.
- Pothole changes.
- Minor rewordings.
- Spoiler tags.
While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:
- Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
- If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
- Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.
Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.
As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.
Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM
Goku Black
Let me just move this here. So it isn't forgotten. It's been awhile since I watched this but from Memory. I think this is good.
- Brron, Mad King of Dark World, is the psychopathic dictator of the Spirit World. Brron is responsible for turning the Spirit World into a place of abject misery for it's citizens and has any who defy him sent to internment camps. Any Duelists who Brron finds to be a threat to him are executed via having monsters released on them while Brron watches with glee. When Jaden Yuki enters the Spirit World, Brron attempts to corrupt Jaden into evil by forcing him to sacrifice each of his friends. Even while dying, Brron spends his last moments gleefully mocking Jaden that his friends are now gone forever.
Not the Eye
Great work Mir!
Keep Charles, Orm and Gundleus
Thank you mir for saving us from plagiarism! Big yes to the rewrite!
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Rewrite looks great Mir.
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I'll submit that rewrite now. With potholes:
- Season 3: Brron, Mad King of Dark World, is the psychopathic dictator of the Spirit World. Brron is responsible for turning the Spirit World into a place of abject misery for its citizens and has any who defy him sent to internment camps. Any Duelists who Brron finds to be a threat to him are executed via having monsters released on them while Brron watches with glee. When Jaden Yuki enters the Spirit World, Brron attempts to corrupt Jaden into evil by sacrificing each of his friends. Even while dying, Brron spends his last moments gleefully mocking Jaden that his friends are now gone forever.
Edited by ACW on Jan 19th 2023 at 1:01:00 PM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Goku Black
Oh wait. My bad. It was Brron that sacrificed Jaden's friends to create the ultimate fusion card, he didn't make Jaden do it but instead see him do it.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Grammar time.
Something common in Complete Monster entries is the use of a present participle to describe events that don't occur simultaneously, which is wrong. It's also easy to write a dangling modifiers this way. Taking examples from Anime & Manga: A to F:
- "Seeking to get rich, Maisaka forms the Red May terrorist group" ✅ (Motive + forming terrorist group can occur at the same time)
- "Starting several fires across the city, the arsonist also stabbed an innocent man to death" ❎ (Unless he dropped all the lit matches with one arm and stabbed a man with the other). Possible revisions:
- "The arsonist started several fires across the city and also stabbed an innocent man to death"
- "Having started several fires across the city, the arsonist then stabbed an innocent man to death"
- "The arsonist started several fires across the city. He also stabbed an innocent man to death"
Please correct them whenever you find them.
Goku Black
Yeah uh, I noticed that too. Alot of the old NCIS stuff had that issue where stuff was being haphazardly crammed into the same sentences even if it was unrelated. So also fine fixing that. We can make it a project to undo it.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Yeah, that should be no issue to fix when possible and to correct it going ahead
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
Keep Charlie and Gun. (In case I have not said it yet.)
IPP Wick Check created.
Examples should also be written in historical present tense by default. From How to Write an Example:
- Write in Historical Present Tense: Descriptions of events in an example should usually be written in present tense. Past and future tense are used to describe actions that occurred before or after the main action in the sentence.
- Right: Alice eats the burger Bob prepared a while back.
- Wrong: Alice ate the burger Bob prepared a while back.
I fixed this in an Animorphs MB example a little while back, but unfortunately sometimes it can be hard to know which tense would be appropriate without being familiar with the work. To use the arsonist example above, if those are events that occur during the work then they should be in present tense. But if it is revealing events that happened in the past then it'd probably be in past tense (and phrased something like "it is revealed (<- present events) that he started fires"). Of course, past events can also be from a "present" viewpoint. For instance if a work is a prequel, then when we are discussing events in it from that work's perspective, that work's present would be the present we are going by.
- In Work, Bob reveals that he poisoned the water supply.
- In Work, Bob is revealed to be behind the town's misfortunes — he poisoned the water supply, kicked all the dogs in town, and stole the office supplies.
- In Work Prequel, Bob poisons the water supply.
Bork ribs with extra beef
So now that the new CM threads are here, I just wanna list a candidate for deletion: Captain Grumpf of Solatorobo: Red the Hunter, who's most likely a very early example from when the rules weren't as clear-cut. Here's what his entry says:
- Solatorobo: Captain Grumpf is one of Bruno's henchmen, and though a minor villain, easily proves himself worse than his boss. Grumpf's introduction has him trying to destroy an airship with many of his men onboard just to kill hero Red Savarin after Red taunts Grumpf by calling him a lady. To try and get the Crystal Stones from Red, Grumpf threatens to fire missiles at an orphanage. When Red agrees to hand over the crystals, Grumpf decides to blow up the orphanage anyway, just because Red took too long to agree. After destroying the orphanage, Grumpf intends to fire missiles at Red and his friends to kill them, not caring that Opera, Bruno's right-hand woman and by extension an ally of Grumpf, is down there at the time and will be killed as well.
Two reasons for his deletion:
- He doesn't really pass the heinous standard. While he's the only member of the Kurvaz to attempt to kill innocents, he's overshadowed in presence and scope by his power-hungry boss Bruno (who also doesn't count, given that a follow-up story shows him regretting his actions). Further still, Nero and Blanck from later in the same game desire to kill innocents unprovoked in comparison to Grumpf, and they're shown to not count, either. Same with their leader Baion, given the game's ending has him give up peacefully despite his genocidal ambitions. (No idea how Fuga: Melodies of Steel impacts this standard, given the crimes Hax and Blutwurst commit without remorse— by the way, someone else is already planning to do them.)
- More definitively, he's shown to have redeeming qualities. The side-story "A Captain's Final Adventure" reveals that he was more interested in scaring Opéra into submission than outright killing her, and after surviving Red's strike on his battleship, he chooses to work as an extra pair of hands for an NPC named Collie rather than seek revenge. And when two of the orphanage kids are in danger, he immediately goes to rescue them without even thinking about it, to his very own surprise.
Did I miss anything?
Sends me into hyperspace, when I see her pretty face…
The Moron
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I believe that’s what we generally try to do anyway - flashback stuff or stuff from before the work starts is in past, but everything else is in present
Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Jan 19th 2023 at 2:57:14 PM
I'm pretty sure I write in the present of things that happened, which I'm guessing is the historical present tense. And yeah, I do of course use past tense on the things the character did before and future on what they plan to do as well.
Professor Gigachad
Grumpf sounds like a cut assuming their is nothing that shows up for keeping him.
I am wondering if I should make the Octopath Traveler traveller page now. I have had it saved in my troper page for a while now. Technically we only have 7 entries but the tree would look really awkward and wouldn't even work due to indentation problems. I know that there are more coming up from Champions anyway so it might not be a bad idea to be prepared.
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
Not the Eye
Go for it ordeaux
Cut Grumph
No issue cutting the Salotorobo example
Edited by Lightysnake on Jan 19th 2023 at 12:09:41 PM
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Cut Grumpf
Got no issues there Ordeaux if there's gonna be indentation issues already.
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
Cut Grump
IPP Wick Check created.
Cut Grumpf, quite happy to review entries not keeping "backstory" stuff in present tense and I think the page is a good idea Ordeaux.
Professor Gigachad
Monster Octopath Traveler is done.
We have a two options for quotes.
The wifi here sucks
Here's the rewrite for the arsonist with the grammar fix (for the record he killed the guy during one of his acts of arson). EDIT fixing it since most of his crimes should be in past tense
- "Metropolitan Police Detective Love Story III—The Case of Masayoshi Sato": The unnamed arsonist is a gleefully sadistic man who desires to "light up" Tokyo with flames. Before the events of the case, the arsonist started several fires across the city and also stabbed an innocent man to death. When witnessed starting another fire by the Detective Boys, the arsonist tries to kill them with a smile on his face. After his arrest, it is revealed that the arsonist had planned to blow up a fuel warehouse and burn the entire city down in a "beautiful carnival" of flames.
Edited by papyru30 on Jan 19th 2023 at 1:47:24 PM
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
Not a weird thing, a very necessary thing to bring up. Yeah, that needs a rewrite.