"No Recent Examples Please" cleanup

Any thoughts on It Was His Sled?

YMMV.The Amazing Spider Man 2022 has an example for an unreleased installment (because Marvel acknowledged a Content Leak about a shock twist was genuine).

At the moment, that seems to be valid under the policy.

Surely the work should at least be out - and ideally for at least a week or two - before we start adding this one?

Yeah, It Was His Sled needs a few weeks to solidify. Maybe even a month, so we can clearly tell whether it's just the people in-fandom who know the twist.

I had a dog-themed avatar before it was cool.

&

Synchronicity has just pointed out that it's already on the index as 5 years - but that's not mentioned anywhere on the trope page itself.

I'lll draft a warning to add to the intro.

Another question: does the same rules for Seasonal Rot ("6 months after the show ends or one year after the season has ended, whichever comes first") also apply for film franchises?

I see that Phase 4 of Marvel Cinematic Universe is listed.

Technically speakng, the last "episode" of that phase , The Guardians of the Galaxy Holiday Special, came out on November 25, 2022 and therefore shouldn't be eligible until November 25, 2023.

Edited by Silverblade2 on May 29th 2023 at 10:31:34 AM

How's this for the It Was His Sled trope page warning:

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A No Recent Examples rule applies to this trope. Unless they've also become Late Arrival Spoilers, examples shouldn't be added until five years after release (for episodic works, that's five years from the installment with the twist).

Edited by Mrph1 on May 29th 2023 at 9:46:43 AM

The era is effectively a season, so I'd be tempted to use the one year rule.

^Agreed, and I'll add ^^.

As of now, Porting Disaster has 11 votes, has a ratio of well over 2:1, and has been on the crowner for a week. However, I won't be closing it just yet, as I feel it might be premature.

This is Idol Tap. (My Troper Wall)

Make that 13 votes in total.

Kirby is awesome.

I will be closing Porting Disaster this Saturday, as it has fulfilled all the requirements. Last chance to vote!

This is Idol Tap. (My Troper Wall)

Proposed update for the First Installment Wins intro note - no change to policy, just clarifies a little.

Fair?

That seems fair.

The NRLEP thread brought up Cruel and Unusual Death and a subtrope, Cooked to Death, as maybe being good NREP candidates. There was concerns about having overly graphic descriptions of deaths that happened recently enough that people would say "Dude, Not Funny!", and even a lot of the near-recent historical examples often tie into wars or political arguments that, if not still ongoing, are still sensitive topics. I suggested 500 years, which seemed like a solid enough time frame that we wouldn't be gossiping about people who still had living friends and relatives and we wouldn't be poking at any open cultural wounds. Thoughts?

Fair! NREP sounds good, but 500 years seems excessive. Think 200 would be plenty for the stated goals.

200 works for me. When this was proposed on the NRLEP thread, my starting point was that I didn't, personally, want the likes of Jack the Ripper turning up as examples. 200 years is long enough to exclude serial killers and distance RealLife examples from the victims' families.

Note that Cooked to Death is still NRLEP at the moment, unlike its parent trope, so this would rely on that changing first.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jun 2nd 2023 at 9:36:38 AM

There aren't many tropes specifically listed as Cruel and Unusual Death subtropes, but I'd suggest all of the following are handled together for consistency:

• Cruel and Unusual Death
• Eaten Alive
• Fed to the Beast
• Flaying Alive
• Gutted Like a Fish
• A Molten Date with Death

NREP for Real Life only, say 200 years as suggested above?

Personally I don't think we should lump all of Cruel and Unusual Death's subtropes together. I've seen that blanket bans on all a trope's subtropes just don't work very well.

Someone brought up the Elemental Powers index and how it says that all its subtropes are supposed to be NRLEP but except for Making a Splash that was crownered on its own, none of them are. I also tried to spearhead the Morality Index cleanup thread in an attempt to get an official list so that all of them could be NRLEP'd together but it never got enough interest to make any changes. I suspect that forcing all of a trope's subtropes into the same mold isn't the best idea and the best way to handle them is to crowner them on their own as individuals.

And honestly I think a lot of these are better NRLEP candidates and they shouldn't be automatically NRE'd when I think they could pass NRLEP (especially Gutted Like a Fish, which is attracting a lot of really poor examples - "Sadly, this has happened to more than a few women who tried to reject a man's romantic advances" yeah, [citation needed] buddy.)

I would be strongly in favour of the same NREP cut-off for all of them, regardless of whether they're added to a crowner at the same time.

As with the sequel tropes we recently looked at, it would seem to make sense to keep the rule consistent for all related tropes.

To me, it makes no sense to put a 200 year rule on one horrible death trope, 50 years on another and 20 on a third. If the reason for NREP is exactly the same in all cases (e.g. to keep it distant enough that there are no immediate relatives/descendants of the victims), the cut-off line should also be the same unless there's a specific reason not to do that.

I agree.

I think even 200 years is way too much to cover Cruel and Unusual Death and its subtropes. Maybe 50 or a 100? I don't think we should cut off examples like Idi Amin having people fed to crocodiles because of an arbitrarily excessive standard.

Also, that page has one giant RL section.

You can also probably add Murder by Cremation to the pile.

As for Cooked to Death being NRLEP, can an OP unilaterally declare a trope as such?

Edited by Morgenthaler on Jun 3rd 2023 at 9:03:16 AM

You've got roaming bands of armed, aggressive, tyrannical plumbers coming to your door, saying "Use our service, or else!"

We allow tropes in the TLP to be preemptively declared NRLEP if the sponsor or other users think it should be.

Macron's notes

I'm not inherently against something below 200 years, but I think any longer is absolutely unnecessary — that's the extreme end of two lifetimes end-to-end.

100 years is still short enough to be someone's uncle/aunt or grandparent. Maybe 150?

And if that means we lose some of Idi Amin's atrocities from The '70s... yeah, I'm personally good with that. They'll still be on The Other Wiki, I'm just not sure we should make examples out of them.

Let's see where the consensus lands.

I actually do wonder how far you would want to take that though. While I agree it's pretty lurid and insensitive to list, say, somebody who died 2 or 5 years ago because an ISIS group cut their head off on camera or something (let's leave that stuff to the If It Bleeds, It Leads tabloids), I don't see why that would restrict us from describing events that took place decades or longer ago, or which have already been dramatized in works like Extremely Wicked, Shockingly Evil, and Vile to the approval of survivors. Have we actually had cases of controversy on TV Tropes as a result of listing a Real Life violent death?

Edited by Morgenthaler on Jun 3rd 2023 at 11:31:12 AM

You've got roaming bands of armed, aggressive, tyrannical plumbers coming to your door, saying "Use our service, or else!"

Porting Disaster is now closed

This is Idol Tap. (My Troper Wall)

The problem with TV tropes is unlike more serious films like Extremely Wicked, Shockingly Evil, and Vile, what we write is not being approved by survivors or relatives. I don't think it's a fair comparison at all. Movies like that also usually have PR departments that reach out those immediately affected and let them review the work early before it goes out to the public. Our RL examples are written by Joe Public and, to put it mildly, aren't always written with empathy to the fact that these are real people behind these examples. And if Extremely Wicked still got criticism for not treating its subject matter with the gravitas it deserves, what do you think people will think about our examples written like "This guy's head got cut off and there was blood everywhere and his intestines were hanging out and stuff Check out these awesome crime scene pictures!" Even beyond offending the survivors, in general a lot of these examples, the more recent the worse, are just generally in bad taste.

Another factor that makes me lean towards longer timeframes for tropes like this is that for some particularly heinous deaths, particularly those committed by country-spanning regimes, while their victims may no longer have living family or friends their deaths are still considered a culture-wide wound that it's still considered unkind to mess with or treat less than seriously. For instance, yes, Emmett Till may have died sixty years ago, but he's still considered so much of a black rights martyr that I think it's in ridiculously bad taste to link to pictures of his dead body, and it'll probably be in bad taste for as he's seen as a martyr.