"No Recent Examples Please" cleanup

Is this thread only for deciding which tropes should go under No Recent Examples, Please!? Or can we discuss specific examples being too recent/ongoing to count?

How's this addition?

Audience Reactions and YMMV not listed elsewhere (Until the story/part of the story can be assumed concluded): To avoid knee-jerk complaints and the possibility of finale changing perception of the work. Exceptions are:

• Memetic Mutation
• Tainted by the Preview
• Win The Crowd

I think that's way too broad a rule and it's gonna be annoying for those who launch new YMMV items to check to see if they're exempt from this rule, as opposed to being able to confidently say that they're too early to add to a work. I'm still of the opinion that audience reactions to trailers and promotional material can be kept as "legacy examples."

What people keep forgetting is that when we're troping pre-release material, well, we're literally troping pre-release material. We're not discussing the work proper, but the trailers and similar. So Audience Reactions should definitely be able to count if they're reactions about or from the pre-release material.

I meant that pre-release material be allowed, just limited to a few tropes that can't be effected by the context of the final product. (Win The Crowd and Tainted by the Preview can cover all positive/negative reactions to the trailer, Memetic Mutation because it proves that part memorable, Awesome Music or Moments can also be added along with anything else this thread deems appropriate.)

Otherwise, how can we enforce against adding tropes that shouldn't be added prerelease like Author's Saving Throw? Just list them individually saying (Until the work is officially released)?

Sorry if this sounds cranky, this is something that keeps cropping up as a problem, I keep asking about in response, but keeps going nowhere. I'll back of if you think I'm getting too worked up.

There's no rule that every Audience Reaction needs to be 100% well-informed and accurate, as long as the entry doesn't make any factual claims it can't back up. There are even items specifically about fandom misconceptions like Common Knowledge and Misaimed Fandom.

In my opinion, in order to prevent complaining, the "So It Sucks" items should be to describe cases when fans boil most of their complaints down to certain choices, like changing something or comparing it to other works, regardless of extenuating factors. Fans may make comparisons to another work to claim It's the Same, So It Sucks even when those comparisons are not entirely warranted. If a common criticism of a story early on was that it resembled another story, but later on it turned out to have more differences than expected, then an It's the Same, So It Sucks entry about that fan reaction can still be written up with the mention that those criticisms turned out to be premature. (And no, that's not a "subversion," it's documenting an audience reaction that did exist, and may even still exist among fans who gave up early on the series.)

Edited by mightymewtron on Jun 4th 2021 at 10:00:54 AM

I believe that there should be an It Sucks cleanup page for all tropes under It Sucks not already covered by the cleanup pages.

Edited by Nen_desharu on Jun 4th 2021 at 2:06:10 PM

Premature complaints from prerelease material are Tainted by the Preview. What you described might better fit Growing the Beard or Slow-Paced Beginning if it's about the work getting better later.

"So It Sucks" cleanup. It's at present used for just complaining I doubt would be acceptable in newer tropes.

Edited by Ferot_Dreadnaught on Jun 5th 2021 at 3:50:44 AM

and I had suggested on ATT that a "So It Sucks" cleanup be made. I am 100% on board with the idea.

Created cleanup thread

There's a recent discussion on ATT regarding whether Dork Age should have a waiting period.

No official waiting period has been suggested yet, but would five years be an acceptable length?

Is Author's Saving Throw officially a "no pre-realease example"?

I'd prefer that it should be, since it would be otherwise impossible to verify whether the Author's Saving Throw actually occurred in the work without the work being released.

Tentative for five year waiting period since the age is considered over. That should give time to determine if it doesn't fit any other tropes like Seasonal Rot or Sequelitis. (If it needs more discussion as to how to keep it separate from other complaint tropes that's a separate cleanup.

It was decided it should be, but we've never figured out how to go about it. (If we list it on No Recent Examples, Please!, it would create a president for almost all YMMV/Audience Reaction should be on the list, so many it would blot out the other examples. If we say YMMV/Audience Reactions in general must wait until the work is out, we'd need to find a way to list those that are allowed prerelease or have other waiting periods. I'd say the easiest fix is to give it a 1 week waiting period, the shortest we've got.)

Edited by Ferot_Dreadnaught on Jun 8th 2021 at 12:39:20 PM

Speaking of Dork Age, is it possible for Sequelitis to have a waiting period?

Is there really enough misuse to justify a waiting period? If so, a couple months would be enough.

I'd say six months since Contested Sequel has that wait and is mutually exclusive with Sequelitis. Two weeks minimum.

I've heard Sequelitis isn't just inferior sequels, but a pattern/trend of decline thus requiring multiple works to count. Is/was that the case (that would mandate a long waiting period if so) or is that a question for elsewhere?

Edited by Ferot_Dreadnaught on Jun 8th 2021 at 12:37:24 PM

Honestly it's a little unclear whether it's for works with multiple sequels or if it still counts if a work only has one sequel that sucks.

Well, should I proceed with adding that as an option?

The Role Reprise trope is when an actor returns to reprise their roles after a significant break. However, since actors continuing to reprise their roles in the latest installment of an ongoing franchise don't count, should we consider having a time limit for it?

Edited by gjjones on Jun 11th 2021 at 5:39:40 AM

I'd say 5 years makes the most sense.

(I'd also suggest an exception: voice-only roles shouldn't reset the clock for a live-action character, because otherwise licensed works would make it almost impossible to qualify in certain big franchises.)

I've just added it to the crowner.

Edited by gjjones on Jun 11th 2021 at 7:36:35 AM

Might as well get this round of called crowners over with:

• Fair for Its Day waiting period reduced from 20 years to 15 years (9:2 after 2 months)
• EnemyMine.Real Life closed as unsuccessful (2:9 after 3 months)
• They Changed It, Now It Sucks! and It's the Same, Now It Sucks! closed as inconclusive (7:7 after 4 months)

• Vindicated by History is at 5:4 after 3 months; will close as inconclusive if it hasn't reached a 2:1 ratio by July 1.
• Dork Age and Role Reprise remain open.

Edit: I'm honestly surprised that Fair for Its Day wasn't grouped with the values tropes here.

Edited by RallyBot2 on Jun 16th 2021 at 3:07:18 PM

If we reduced Fair for Its Day, should we re-vote to determine the same for its sisters Values Dissonance and Values Resonance?

Edited by mightymewtron on Jun 16th 2021 at 2:27:29 PM

I must agree.

This ATT made me wonder if Acclaimed Flop should also be on NREP, given that the main metric to tell if it's a flop (Box Office Bomb) requires the film's theatrical run to be finished.