Hate Sink cleanup

While I prepare my second Ghost In The Shell effort post (which is going to be pretty long), here’s my write-up for the CIA agents.

Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex: Despite their brief screentime, CIA agents Suzuki Sato and Tanaka Watanabe stand out as particularly detestable. They manipulate Section 9 in an attempt to cover up a brutal war crime without any moral qualms or empathy and later attempt to help Kazundo Gohda, who has caused multiple murders and atrocities, defect and evade justice for his crimes. Once the true nature of the agents emerges, everyone in Section 9 is disgusted at them, with Batou punching Sato in rage and later insulting Watanabe the next time they meet.

~Master N, Good question. It would likely be no problem if the entry was approved. That said, I don't think doing that is such a good idea, considering many of the entries have yet to be evaluated.

It took me a little while, but I now have my second Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex effort post ready. For this one, I’m taking a look at the Big Bad of the second season. I am, of course, referring to.....

Who is the character, and what do they do?

Kazundo Gohda, head of the Japanese Cabinet Intelligence Service and a powerful bureaucrat. Despite his power, Gohda, who has always dreamed of greatness, has an inferiority complex and is unsatisfied with simply being a high-level bureaucrat. By the time the season’s plot begins, Japan is in a refugee crisis and the newly-appointed Prime Minister Kayabuki, while conservative and hawkish on refugees, is not tough enough on refugees to appease the powerful hardline nationalists and is widely seen as ineffectual. In the midst of this crisis, Gohda sees his perfect opportunity.

Gohda creates the Individual Eleven computer virus, spread in the guise of a nonexistent political essay, designed to target the cyberbrains of the radicialized and disaffected and compell them to committ terrorist acts as part of his plan to destabilize the refugee crisis. The infectees committ acts such as holding an embassy hostage, assassinating political figures on both sides of the debate, and attempting to kill the Prime Minister before committing a mass suicide that kills all the infectees except for one: Hideo Kuze, a former soldier with sympathies for the refugees. In accordance to Gohda’s plan, Kuze would fill the role of a “hero” that he could use as a pawn to further escalate the conflict.

All the while, Gohda uses disinformation to sow discord and confusion within the government and to fuel tensions between the refugees and Japanese citizens. For instance, he has Section 9 go on a mission to escort two cases of plutonium out of a refugee district, causing a shootout that results in several refugee civilians being needlessly killed, before callously revealing that the cases were empty and Section 9 was being used as a decoy while the plutonium they were supposedly guarding was being shipped by sea. In another instance, he feeds false information to another government task force that results in an ex-soldier being wrongfully killed.

Eventually, Kuze becomes the leader of a revolt in the refugee city-state of Dejima and threats about possessing nuclear weapons to demand independence. Gohda causes a blackout in Nagasaki that allows Kuze to escape from authorities attempting to capture him, pulls strings to prevent Kuze from actually obtaining plutonium, and stages a bomb scare with the plutonium he had already secured. The final step of Gohda’s plan was to have the Japanese military attack Dejima, initiate a coup during the chaos, destroy the entire city with a nuclear missile from the American Empire, and cover it up as a suicide attack from the refugees. With this, Gohda would be allowed to seize control of the government and build a militaristic empire, all so he could become the great man he always dreamed of becoming.

However, Gohda’s plan is thwarted when the Tachikomas perform a Heroic Sacrifice by using their AI satellite to crash into the trajectory of the missile and prevent it from launching. With his plans ruined, Gohda attempts to defect to the American Empire with the assistance of CIA agents Sato and Watanabe. When Section 9 arrives to arrest him, he attempts to weasel his way out by submitting a written confession to the police, allowing him to leave for any country of his choosing. However, Section 9 calls his bluff by presenting a note from the Prime Minister preventing Gohda’s skills from fallong within a foreign power’s hands and allowing Section 9 to use lethal force if he does not surrender. Gohda dismisses this as a bluff, only for a optic-camouflaged Major Kusanagi to prove otherwise with a machine gun to the head, bringing him to an undignified and much deserved end.

What makes them personally despicable?

While Gohda seems polite and soft-spoken upon first impression, he quickly proves this to be a facade for his true persona. He constantly acts smug, condescending, and rude towards others. Despite being a mediocre and charmless government bureaucrat, Gohda believes that he deserves to be seen as a great and influential man and will stoop to any low to become one. Every action he takes to carry out his plan is done for the sake of satisying his own ego and making a mark on history, no matter how many people he kills in the process. Upon his introduction, the members of Section 9 instantly distrust him. During the plutonium transport mission, Batou takes great pleasure in holding Gohda, who is afraid of heights, while jumping out a helicopter and causing Gohda to scream in terror all the way down. Following the incident with the plutonium transport, they become openly antagonistic towards him and are repulsed by his crimes. Even his leitmotif, an omnious fanfare performed on kazoos, is designed to invoke revulsion among the audience.

Evil Is Cool traits? Complexity? Freudian Excuse?

Redeeming qualities? From a confirmed Complete Monster? Not a chance in hell. As far as coolness goes? While his manipulating and scheming could earn a degree of admiration, any coolness factor he might have is undermined by the sheer scale of his atrocities. Throughout the second season’s plot, Gohda is directly responsible for multiple terrorist attacks, mass murders, an attempted coup, and a nuclear attack on an entire city of civilians that was barely stopped. The large scale of his crimes, in addition to his unpleasant behavior, prevent him from ever having a legitimate coolness factor. His only Freudian Excuse is his inferiority complex, which is nowhere close to justifying his atrocities. If anything, his inferiority complex serves to further underline how egotistical and detestable he is. He has a very powerful position in the government and yet he still desires greater power and influence. Furthermore, both his rude behavior towards others and his untreated facial disfigurement are conscious efforts on his part to make him stand out more to his co-workers. Out of his inferiority complex, he deliberately makes himself hideous and unpleasant just to feel better about himself.

Verdict?

Bottom line, Kazundo Gohda is a truly detestable man who is clearly intended to attain the hatred of both the audience and the other characters alike. Based on all the criteria for this trope, I consider Gohda to be a .

Edited by Pemulis_128 on Jun 6th 2019 at 12:05:25 PM

Gohda.

Gohda

Gohda.

for Gohda.

So I remembered befrore finding this thread I wrote a Hate Sink entry for Chris Hooker of 'The Craft'' and while I do see him as a prick, finding this thread I wonder if he actually makes the HS criteria.

The Craft is a cult classic 90's teen horror film and one of my favourites. It focuses on Sarah Bailey, a newcomer at a high school in Los Angeles, where she befriended three other girls who turn out to be practicing witches, and Sarah discovers she is a witch as well. They proceed to use their magic to try to empower themselves and get back at tormentors, before the power gets to some of their heads and everything going wrong.

Here's Sarah's tormentor and ostensibly the films secondary antagonist, Chris Hooker.

Who is he ? What does he do ?

Chris Hooker is a popular jock and Romantic False Lead to Sarah, who immediately tries to charm her on her first day, warning her about her three new friends Nancy, Bonnie, and Rochelle being witches. In turn, Nancy warns Sarah of Chris being a sleeze who sleeps around with other girls, bringing up how Chris had sex with her and gave her an STD. Sarah ends up going on a very innocent date with Chris, and the next day Chris falsely brags to the other students that Sarah had sex with him and she was the lousiest lay he ever had. When Sarah confronts him, Chris tells Sarah to stop "begging" and that she's being pathetic.

When Sarah begins hanging out with the other witches, and they decide to use their magic to get payback on others, Sarah decides to humiliate Chris by putting him under a love spell for her. Chris then becomes Sarah's love sick lap dog, initially humiliating him, but things gradually get out of control with Chris beginning to stalk her and visit her late at night, eventually attempting to date rape her before she manages to escape. In retaliation, Nancy confronts Chris at a party, posing as Sarah in a glamor spell before revealing to Chris that she and the other girls are in fact, real witches. Sarah tries to get Nancy to stop, but Nancy decides to get payback on Chris and when he tries to apologize, Nancy goes berserk and throws him out a window to his death.

Complexity or Evil Is Cool ?

Is he cool ? No, he's clearly meant to be the main Asshole Victim of the movie.

But as for complexity, this is were I reconsidered if he was a Hate Sink or not. Fact is while he's clearly meant to be the Asshole Victim, but I also think they were supposed to deconstruct this on account of Sarah not thinking he deserved to die and mourning what happened to him. Yes, Chris is a prick. Yes, he sleeps around with girls, Slut Shames for bragging rights and gave Nancy an STD and generally unrepentant about it until he fearfully apologizes to Nancy when he's about to die.

I can't rightly hold his stalking and Attempted Rape against him since it was when he was under the impression of a love spell gone wrong. This film has a theme of when you cast a spell, it comes back to you times three, and what Chris does is a natural result of the love spell. There's also the fact that he's something of a Butt-Monkey as the result of being under Sarah's spell.

I bring him up here because I wonder if he really fits being the criteria listed for Hate Sink's. He's a prick, but is he really despicable here ?

Gohda and Chris Hooker. Anymore votes on Monty? I only have two so far.

Leaning yes on Hooker. I mean he's supposed to be despicable in every other way, so while we cannot necessarily hold him accountable for what he did under a spell, we can still hate him for being a twat beforehand. This is an example of the hate sink being played with.

Monty as well.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Jun 7th 2019 at 10:26:57 AM

So you know that Cioccolata effortpost I did 2 weeks ago? Well I did it a bit earlier than I should have, so I'll paste it again so it doesn't bypass the 2 weeks thing, and get more votes so I can do the writeup.

What is the work?

Jojo's Bizarre Adventure Vento Aureo takes place in the year 2001, in Italy about a 15 year old boy Giorno Giovanna wanting to stop the mafia and protect the city from drugs. After rebelling from The Boss they encounter a numerous of his elite guards, but none of which are more sadistic than Cioccolata.

What does he do?

Cioccolata's backstory is revealed by Diavolo in the manga and the narrator in the anime. He is shown at the ages of 14 to be giving poor drugs to the elderly, causing them to feel ill and die. He then tells some of them that their family would never love them, so they commit suicide. He recorded a lot of videotapes and filmed each of these suicide attempts. Later, he became a doctor and seemed to have accidentally killed someone. But it wasn't malpractice, it was on purpose. He committed surgery on normal healthy people, and reduced the aesthetic for the person so they would wake up and die while seeing their innards be pulled out. Sometime later he joined Passione after being fired from his job. At one point before the story starts, two members of another mafia group tried to find The Boss's secret identity and Cioccolata cutted Sorbet into 36 pieces, with Gelato committed suicide. Keep in mind, Cioccolata's Stand allows the user to be kept alive while doing all of this. In the present day, he goes on rampage first through a fishing village, killing several innocents along the way but makes himself to Rome to find Giorno and the group. There are over 3 million people in Rome and Cioccolata didn't care from killing all of them, in fact he enjoyed it. When Giorno seems to have beaten him, he uses his right arm and Stand to slit Mista's throat as a cowardly act before being beaten by a rush of punches of Gold Experience for 7 pages in the manga/40 seconds in the anime killing him as he then gets sent through a garbage truck disposal.

What makes him hateable?

He's a complete total sadist who enjoys seeing people die, and has the highest attempted kill count in the series aside from Dio Brando. So honestly, I'd say every act he does makes him awful.

Any Freudian Excuse or Evil Is Cool moments?

His last lines to Secco were "I love you" but he treats Secco not as a legitimate person, but more of a pet dog.

Oh and if you think there's anything else in him where he's got mitigating factors, Hahaha No.

Verdict? What a shitty sadistic rotten son of a bitch. Diavolo/The Boss even has seeming standards against him killing for his sadism, and he attempted to kill his daughter out of pure paranoia. I'll get to him next, but his arc isn't finished yet.

Cioccolata.

I'm off for Shavuot.

to Cioccolata

to Hooker and Cioccolata

Chris. By the way, could someone write Akio Ohtori from Revolutionary Girl Utena up?

Edited by IukaSylvie on Jun 7th 2019 at 10:55:49 PM

Unlike Complete Monster or Magnificent Bastard, Hate Sink is an objective trope due to the primary criteria of Author's Intent. Which means it can theoretically be Played With. However, to prevent abuse of that loophole, a Played With entry should establish why he's intended to be a Hate Sink before explaining the deconstruction of such character archetype.

As for me, fortunately he seems to be not in it for long and got killed off before he can show redemptive Character Development. So for Chris. To be honest, I'm not sure what to do if we are given a character who is basically a Hate Sink all the way until a last-minute Snape-revelation which reveals that they are Good All Along. That's going to be a problematic feature with Hate Sink due to the objective loophole.

Important Note:

I'll be absent for the next 10 days to China starting tomorrow afternoon and thus will unable to properly manage this thread's write-up list or drafts. I'll likely post the drafts into the main Hate Sink page here before I go, but do note that. If anyone is willingly to take up the task while I'm absent, I'm all ears.

Edited by Shadao on Jun 7th 2019 at 10:04:33 AM

He didn't so much get a redemptive snap as he did say "I'm sorry." when Nancy scares him/calls him out.

Yes to all 3 candidates on this page.

I'm sorry for posting the examples on sub pages too early. Here's the first:

• The Lorax:
  • The Once-ler's family serve as this in the Once-ler's backstory, being the one's responsible for him Jumping Off the Slippery Slope and destroying the forest. They are emotionally abusive of him at the beginning, and only start respecting him when the Once-ler's Thneed product starts to show promise. Greedy and lazy, they manipulate the Once-ler into breaking his promise with the Lorax to not cut another Trufulla Tree down, causing him to endlessly cut down trees to make his business a success and turning him into a arrogant and greedy Corrupt Corporate Executive. Once the last tree is cut down, shutting down Thneed production, they quickly disown the Once-ler and abandon him, all the while blaming him and ignoring their involvement.
  • Aloynius O'Hare is the corrupt and greedy mayor of Thneedville and founder of O'Hare Air, a company that sells bottled air. He walled up the city to hide the fact that breathable air is free elsewhere, ensuring that the people will remain dependent on the air his company sells. When he discovers Ted wandering outside the city walls, he has no problems threatening him, and when he discovers he has a truffula tree seed, he does everything he can to prevent it from being planted, from trying to seize the seed, to manipulating the citizens into trying to destroy it. Even after the citizens see the world outside and agree the seed must be planted, he is the only one who does not change his mind, still trying to convince the city to let the seed die, turning the citizens and his men against him.

So should I just do Jeremiah Sand's writeup? Because it really doesn't look like I'll be getting anymore than the two votes that I did. I'm legitimately asking and not trying to be antagonistic, by the way.

I already said yes to sand. Bumping the thread so that at least one more person can vote on Sand.

Yea on Sand I guess?

Ok, stellar, you can definitely start writing now.

If I may bring back the case about Mana Users in Cross Ange, since I was the one who added it without bringing it here first (I'm sorry)... I found some missing elements within that write up.

First off, the ones that count within the Mana Society are only about the unrepentant ones, the ones that demanded Ange to save them after they shitted on her. Momoka and Emma are exceptions because they learn the truth (and even then, Emma still had her loyalty to Jill who at least treated her nicely). These guys? They don't even want to learn the truth or just not making any efforts for it. I'm not sure if this one counts, but several adaptations like in Super Robot Wars support this notion: Even in the face of truth, they still clung onto their old mindset and refused to change.

Second, parental love is not enough. There is the implication that Hilda's mother just disowned her not due to grief induced insanity, but because the side effect of Mana itself, it would erode their mentality to the point that eventually they accept that their Norma children were freaks anyway and stopped bothering.

The Freudian Excuse DID exist, but it didn't make them sympathetic, only unintentionally. I think the story is painting them as things not deserving any sympathies and exactly as Ange said about them: "Selfish pigs." They call themselves 'humans', but those that they discriminated; like the Norma and the DRAGONs, actually act more human than them, despite their other flaws. They don't want to seek the truth or rise above their flaws, only contenting themselves with their complacency, despite the truth hitting them in the face.

There are several sections in this site that hyperboled this and say that in this state, they are like a race of Complete Monster. In conjunction of the finale of Cross Ange, it looked a lot like Rapture, and these unrepentant Mana users came off like 'Sinners who refuse to repent, then get punished in the lake of fire'. This sounds like materials for Hate Sink.

So... well, my two cents is that I think the producer is making it that the Mana community (except a select few) is representing humanity at its worst, therefore meant to be hated, even if in the end, they were just pawns of Embryo, someone who's even worse (and the main antagonist to boot).

If this looks at least OK and can be rethinked, I can prepare a new evaluation for them.

Edited by ChrisX on Jun 11th 2019 at 10:35:21 PM

I'm fine with a re-evaluation.